Euro 96 - Why didn't Beckham and Scholes go?

[Bobski]

Scholes was an impact sub at Utd playing as a forward, an area where England had great depth as many have mentioned. He was never an option, and in truth he didn't really establish himself in the Utd midfield for a couple of years, spent a long period alternating with Butt as a partner to Keane.

Beckham was having his first season at the top level, and he was switching between midfield and out wide, he could have gone a youngster to develop, but he was not a starting option for England at that point.

 

[2cents]

Beckham had spent the previous season on loan at Preston, while his competitors for a place in the squad were all established, experienced PL regulars. Even that season Beckham was not particularly influential, although he got better and better towards the end. So there wasn’t much call for him to be in the squad. It was, of course, a massive deal when he was dropped in place of Anderton by Hoddle in 98.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

The national team has always been a farce for as long as I can remember. The fact that Steve Bruce, captain of the best team in England winning multiple league and cup titles never even got 1 England cap.

 

[Denis' cuff]

I don't remember there being any real issues about no Scholes or Beckham at the time.

Hindsight is 20/20 of course but at the time, England had Gazza, McManaman, Platt, Anderton, Barmby and Redknapp. Even Steve Stone had a great season that year.

Midfield was stacked and England had a great tourney. I bet if England did shite then there would've been more of a post-mortem.

I do remember being annoyed that Gavin Peacock didn't get a sniff.

Barmby and Redknapp in place of Scholes and Beckham?

Even without hindsight not the brightest of choices.

Then again, both Spurs players

 

[duffer]

Barmby and Redknapp in place of Scholes and Beckham?

Even without hindsight not the brightest of choices.

Then again, both Spurs players

Neither was a Spurs player in 96.

 

[MrMarcello]

I'm not sure about that season especially with Pallister, but he should definitely have played more for England. He didn't get in the PFA team of the year 7 or 8 times by accident.

Good post. Speaking of, just how good was Pallister?

By the time regular European football was shown/available in the US, Gary was in his last couple seasons with United. His name is rarely mentioned when discussing the best defenders in club history. But surely he's right up there in that top five or six.

 

[MrMarcello]

Barmby... had forgotten about him. Another player SAF chased to add depth to the squad. Seem to recall SAF tried to swoop in circa 1999 or 2000 but the player ultimately signed for Liverpool.

 

[2cents]

Good post. Speaking of, just how good was Pallister?

By the time regular European football was shown/available in the US, Gary was in his last couple seasons with United. His name is rarely mentioned when discussing the best defenders in club history. But surely he's right up there in that top five or six.

Around Maguire level probably. Actually similar players in some ways, although Maguire’s head is considerably bigger.

 

[Sandikan]

Around Maguire level probably. Actually similar players in some ways, although Maguire’s head is considerably bigger.

I think Maguire would be delighted to live up to that!

He'd have to be in one of the all time best league partnerships, get into the Pfa team every year and find a real turn of pace to be Pally level.

 

[2cents]

I think Maguire would be delighted to live up to that!

He'd have to be in one of the all time best league partnerships, get into the Pfa team every year and find a real turn of pace to be Pally level.

Yeah I’m probably under-rating Pallister a bit with that comparison. Hopefully Maguire can do it though.

 

[Sandikan]

Yeah I’m probably under-rating Pallister a bit with that comparison. Hopefully Maguire can do it though.

He's certainly one of the best in the league in an era where there aren't as many top defenders as previously.

 

[FootballHQ]

Was Pallister injured at the time, I'm sure he'd have got a call up given Howey got in as a backup CB and he was pretty average.

 

[FootballHQ]

Highlights just how much deeper the talent pool of players was back then compared to these days.

It was just numbers really. Pretty much every team played two upfront and that tended to be out and out strikers rather than a number 10 or attacking midfielder and of course foreign players were only just coming to the league in decent numbers, Zola, Vialli and Ravanelli all moved to premier league after the tournament.

 

[FootballHQ]

Anyone remember the Umbro cup in summer 1995? Was used as a min warm up for euro 96 , Goodison Park actually hosted a game even though Anfield got the matches in 96.

Interesting looking at some of the names who were in Venables thoughts 12 months before, not many Man. United players though. Gary Pallister was in the squad for that tournament

Likes of John Scales, Warren Barton David Unsworth, Peter Beardsley and Stan Collymore started for England in that tournament. Colin Cooper also in the squad.

Probably the big thing from that was Venables deciding Beardsley and John Barnes were a little too old for international football at that stage and England needed a bit more pace in the midfield wide areas.

Graeme Le Saux is another who I'm surprised didn't make the cut for 1996 unless he was injured.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umbro_Cup

Also loved the Brazil and Japan kits in that tournament, also think that tournament inspired the pro evo games.

 

[stevoc]

It was just numbers really. Pretty much every team played two upfront and that tended to be out and out strikers rather than a number 10 or attacking midfielder and of course foreign players were only just coming to the league in decent numbers, Zola, Vialli and Ravanelli all moved to premier league after the tournament.

Im not sure what you mean?

 

[Remember the geese]

Anyone remember the Umbro cup in summer 1995? Was used as a min warm up for euro 96 , Goodison Park actually hosted a game even though Anfield got the matches in 96.

Interesting looking at some of the names who were in Venables thoughts 12 months before, not many Man. United players though. Gary Pallister was in the squad for that tournament

Likes of John Scales, Warren Barton David Unsworth, Peter Beardsley and Stan Collymore started for England in that tournament. Colin Cooper also in the squad.

Probably the big thing from that was Venables deciding Beardsley and John Barnes were a little too old for international football at that stage and England needed a bit more pace in the midfield wide areas.

Graeme Le Saux is another who I'm surprised didn't make the cut for 1996 unless he was injured.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umbro_Cup

Also loved the Brazil and Japan kits in that tournament, also think that tournament inspired the pro evo games.

I went to the England vs Brazil game at Wembley. In fact, I'm pretty sure it was the first game I ever went to.

 

[Gio]

Graeme Le Saux is another who I'm surprised didn't make the cut for 1996 unless he was injured.

Aye, broke his leg in 95/96. He was first choice from 1994 through to 2000, but Pearce got recalled for Euro '96.

 

[dcrompton]

The bias of managers towards certain players explains a lot why England never came close to winning anything win since 66. For Gary Neville to be the only representative of a club who by the time Euro 96 came around had won the PL three times in four years and the domestic double twice is a joke. If you play for Spurs and are English you are guaranteed an England call-up regardless of what you actually produce. Beckham had a stormer of a season in 95/96 and should have been included ahead of Anderton and then Steve Howey being picked over Steve Bruce and Gary Pallister is just laughable. If Bruce played for another club he would have had about 80 caps.

Bruce only joined United when he was 27 in 1987 and it was only in his thirties that he started winning trophies with United. Although a great English league defender I suspect he may have been found out at international level. I remember Ferguson dropping him in favour of Paul Parker away at Nou Camp in 94 as Romario and Stoichkov were a level above anything in the English league at that time. Pallister’s international career was hindered by Tony Adams being a similar and arguably superior player. Robson Taylor, Venables and Hoddle all preferred faster centre backs over Pally such as Walker, Curle, Southgate and Campbell

 

[FootballHQ]

Pallister could've played in Serie A no problem in the early to mid 90s imo. Very good passer and could read the game superbly, the modern day comparisons to Harry Maguire are pretty apt given his style.

From 95 onwards he got loads of injuries and got even slower, I think Owen breezing past him and scoring at Old Trafford late in the 97-98 season probably convinced SAF it was time to let him go.

 

[Amir]

Barmby and Redknapp in place of Scholes and Beckham?

Even without hindsight not the brightest of choices.

Then again, both Spurs players

In 1996 Scholes was mostly a backup striker for United. He turned out a different player as the years went by. It requires plenty of hindsight to think he had a place in Euro 96 instead of those players.

 

[Castia]

Wasn't it much harder to get a call up back then? England had their favourites and that was that.

I mean Andy Cole would score every other game and rarely got a sniff. He scored 20+ on numerous occasions winning trophies year in year out and came away with 15 England caps to his name.

 

[FootballHQ]

Wasn't it much harder to get a call up back then? England had their favourites and that was that.

I mean Andy Cole would score every other game and rarely got a sniff. He scored 20+ on numerous occasions winning trophies year in year out and came away with 15 England caps to his name.

Weren't Sheringham and Cole already at war back then? I know they played many years together for Man. United but I'd guess Venables would want a happy camp and no real friction and Cole would've been behind Sheringham in the pecking order that summer.

Andy Cole's international career was like Fowler's, never really got going and seemed to pick up injuries when there were opportunities (was injured for much of 96/97).

 

[Bobski]

Weren't Sheringham and Cole already at war back then? I know they played many years together for Man. United but I'd guess Venables would want a happy camp and no real friction and Cole would've been behind Sheringham in the pecking order that summer.

Andy Cole's international career was like Fowler's, never really got going and seemed to pick up injuries when there were opportunities (was injured for much of 96/97).

Guys like Cole, Fowler, even Les Ferdinand had poor luck with timing. Shearer was the first pick, then as he was winding down in came Owen who was a certain pick for years. Those guys must look at players like Crouch, Vassel and Defoe getting 100+ caps between them and be frustrated. Defoe was very good but clearly behind any of those earlier 3.

 

[Green_Red]

In 96 those two weren't as good as the players that went. They were only really coming onto the scene at the time.

 

[Amir]

Weren't Sheringham and Cole already at war back then? I know they played many years together for Man. United but I'd guess Venables would want a happy camp and no real friction and Cole would've been behind Sheringham in the pecking order that summer.

I'm not sure their 'war' had much meaning at the time, or if anyone knew about it back then, as they rarely had to meet anyway.

Anyhow, Cole did not have a good season in 1995/96. With the options England had upfront, he was never going to the Euro.

 

[Fitchett]

There was definitely a Spurs bias when Venables was England manager. I saw the "quality" of a Spurs team, consisting of five England players, get hammered 6-1 at Bolton, who were then in the 2nd tier, in a League Cup tie on a cold night at Burnden Park, in the first half of the 1996/7 season. From memory, the five internationals were Ian Walker, Sol Campbell, Steve Hodge, Darren Anderton and their goal scorer, Teddy Sheringham.

England did well in Euro 96, but as we all know, Spurs have a soft under belly, so hardly surprising that the final two hurdles weren't overcome.

 

[Castia]

I'm not sure their 'war' had much meaning at the time, or if anyone knew about it back then, as they rarely had to meet anyway.

Anyhow, Cole did not have a good season in 1995/96. With the options England had upfront, he was never going to the Euro.

96 wasn’t so much the surprising one it’s not making the 98 or 00 squads. First team starter for the biggest club in the world coming off multiple league trophies and a champions league win scoring 25, 22 and 24 goals in those seasons. These days you need to put in 4 weeks of good form and you’re called up.

 

[2cents]

96 wasn’t so much the surprising one it’s not making the 98 or 00 squads. First team starter for the biggest club in the world coming off multiple league trophies and a champions league win scoring 25, 22 and 24 goals in those seasons. These days you need to put in 4 weeks of good form and you’re called up.

I didn’t realize Cole didn’t make the squad for Euro 2000. He was absolutely lethal that season, probably his best for us.

 

[Amir]

I didn’t realize Cole didn’t make the squad for Euro 2000. He was absolutely lethal that season, probably his best for us.

Had a look, and England took Shearer, Owen, Fowler, Phillips and Heskey, so you'd think Cole should have been in there. Especially with Keegan, who was a fan. But I also found this in the BBC from that year:

England manager Kevin Keegan's later announcement confirmed the Manchester United frontman will miss the European Championships - a lingering foot injury ruling out his chances.

At a press conference held to announce the squad, Keegan stressed several times: "Andy Cole has not been dropped. He is injured. If he had been fit, I would definitely have taken him."

 

[MikeeMike]

Anderton over Becks seems so ridiculous in hindsight but I think he was flavour of the month at the time.

But he had a great tournament I seem to remember.

 

[FootballHQ]

There was definitely a Spurs bias when Venables was England manager. I saw the "quality" of a Spurs team, consisting of five England players, get hammered 6-1 at Bolton, who were then in the 2nd tier, in a League Cup tie on a cold night at Burnden Park, in the first half of the 1996/7 season. From memory, the five internationals were Ian Walker, Sol Campbell, Steve Hodge, Darren Anderton and their goal scorer, Teddy Sheringham.

England did well in Euro 96, but as we all know, Spurs have a soft under belly, so hardly surprising that the final two hurdles weren't overcome.

Had to check back and see details of that Bolton game. You're right Spurs had pretty much a full strength team out although Bolton did win the first division with 98 points. 6-1 though, even for Spurs that is some going.

 

[DixieDean]

It might have helped had England picked them.

After all, they were bang average throughout the tournament and Spain should have knocked us out. Had a perfectly good goal disallowed in the QF.

 

[Josh 76]

It might have helped had England picked them.

After all, they were bang average throughout the tournament and Spain should have knocked us out. Had a perfectly good goal disallowed in the QF.

They were a penalty kicks away from the final.

 

[Salt Bailly]

But he had a great tournament I seem to remember.

I've been watching ITV's Euro 96 replay over the past few weeks and I don't think he's stood out at all.

 

[DixieDean]

They were a penalty kicks away from the final.

They played well twice all tournament. That was against Holland and in the semi. And in that semi, Germany had a good goal disallowed.

 

[Josh 76]

They played well twice all tournament. That was against Holland and in the semi. And in that semi, Germany had a good goal disallowed.

You can't play great in every game. France in 1998 were not out standing.

I don't think picking a young Beckham and Scholes would have made England win the tournament.

Even in their prime they didn't get England to a semi final.

 

[Sandikan]

Bruce only joined United when he was 27 in 1987 and it was only in his thirties that he started winning trophies with United. Although a great English league defender I suspect he may have been found out at international level. I remember Ferguson dropping him in favour of Paul Parker away at Nou Camp in 94 as Romario and Stoichkov were a level above anything in the English league at that time. Pallister’s international career was hindered by Tony Adams being a similar and arguably superior player. Robson Taylor, Venables and Hoddle all preferred faster centre backs over Pally such as Walker, Curle, Southgate and Campbell

Pallister was quick. If I remember correctly, often coming out top in the United speed charts. Which I remember being astounded by with flyers like Giggs there.
But there's a big difference between top speed, acceleration, and running with the ball speed.

Southgate certainly wasn't pacier than Pallister. Walker I expect was, but the other 2, I'd like to see.

Pallister also got into the PFA team of the year 7/8 times. He's surprisingly underrated by many.

 

[RUCK4444]

I don't remember there being any real issues about no Scholes or Beckham at the time.

Hindsight is 20/20 of course but at the time, England had Gazza, McManaman, Platt, Anderton, Barmby and Redknapp. Even Steve Stone had a great season that year.

Midfield was stacked and England had a great tourney. I bet if England did shite then there would've been more of a post-mortem.

I do remember being annoyed that Gavin Peacock didn't get a sniff.

Scholes wouldn't have been a massive upgrade on these?? Redknapp in particular doesn't come close, not within a light year, of Scholes worst ever season.

 

[Sandikan]

They played well twice all tournament. That was against Holland and in the semi. And in that semi, Germany had a good goal disallowed.

You have a surprisingly negative attitude to a rare tournament England have looked as good as anyone there.
Arguably only 3 times in history - 66,90 and 96.

 

[Sandikan]

Scholes wouldn't have been a massive upgrade on these?? Redknapp in particular doesn't come close, not within a light year, of Scholes worst ever season.

You're making the massive mistake of thinking about the players overall in hindsight, as opposed to how they were at that precise point in time.

And Scholes and Beckham weren't ready at that stage.

Redknapp changed the game when he came on v Scotland in 96. It was a real turning point.