European Super League

Do you want the ESL to happen?


  • Total voters
    1,921
  • Poll closed .

Skills

Snitch
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
42,010
As I understand it, the leagues are members of the UEFA and FIFA and the clubs are members of the leagues. This makes the players members of these world wide associations that organize the WC/EC/CA/etc. You are only allowed to partake if you are a member of this association.

Say I found a club and youbfound a club and we then organize a league for us. We have every right to do so but we are no part of UEFA/FIFA so we can't partake at UEFA or FIFA tournaments. So if a coach wanted to nominate you or me, it wouldn't be possible because we are no members.

Likewise you can organize a tournament and call it the 'SKILLS AND ROFLUTION (SAR) WC' and have every right to do so. The only thing making it less important is prestige.
It's through FIFA statutes everyone agreed to that, conferederations, federations and every licensed members of federations. In theory you could refuse but in that case you have to leave the system or get into a new legal battle involving at least CAS(which is also an agreement) and probably actual courts.
Cheers, sounds like we've got a much bigger problem than just an ESL here then. It seems like UEFA and FIFA have used their regulatory powers to monopolise the actual competition - especially if they try and strong arm the club's in into playing in UEFAs own competition by threatening to ban players from an unrelated tournament (i.e. world cup or euros).

Hopefully this will trigger the break up of UEFA/FIFA into just regulators and a separate entity for the competitions
 

balaks

Full Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
15,335
Location
Northern Ireland
Supports
Tottenham Hotspur
Who cares? Everything is made for consumer consumption these days, not sure why you're so anti American all of a sudden. If the model works then what does it matter?

The reason people are getting upset by this is getting wilder by the second
Jesus Christ
 

TMDaines

Fun sponge.
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
13,906
That is because there is actually a rivalry there, between the people of the two cities, historically related and not just football. There is no rivalry between United and Barcalona, it is just a unique attracted to watch them play because it doesn't happen often.
How do you think rivalries develop?
 

crossy1686

career ending
Joined
Jun 5, 2010
Messages
31,486
Location
Manchester/Stockholm
Were you ecstatic when you heard we were playing Burnley earlier? Me neither.

The reason the CL has glamour ties is because of two things: their scarcity and because a lot is riding on it. It took a lot of blood, sweat and tears to get there and everything hinges on the result. What is riding on the same fixture when it happens every year and both teams sit 7th and 9th in a league they won’t win?
So if we never play Madrid, when we do play Madrid it's a better game? That's some mental gymnastics right there. Just remember that you're not allowed to be excited about these games when they come along, you know, because they're boring
 

Solius

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Staff
Joined
Dec 31, 2007
Messages
86,289
The Glazers are greedy little fecking rats and they’ve finally killed my club.
 

pratyush_utd

Can't tell DeGea and Onana apart.
Joined
Aug 30, 2017
Messages
8,421
Like i said before the players need to boycott, they have to speak up! now isn't the time to be having a lockjaw.
Why would they boycott and put their financial future in jeopardy?

Just by looking at number, clubs are going to increase their revenue by 50%-60% and this will trickle down to players as salary. No clubs outside of those participating will pay what they are earning right now let alone what these player could earn in 2 or 3 years time.
 

Mr Pigeon

Illiterate Flying Rat
Scout
Joined
Mar 27, 2014
Messages
26,103
Location
bin
If the players end up being prevented from participating in internationals does that mean we'll see a complete breakaway from "football" altogether?

These clubs won't play football anymore, they'll play soccerball or goalblitz. They'll have their own International Planet Cup, EuroContinental Trophy, Incontinent Trophy etc. Change the player names while they're at it to Krusty Rimaldo and Linoleum Messy. Like a real life version of those unlicensed football games in the early 00s but with shitter graphics.
 

JohnnyKills

Full Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2016
Messages
7,098
The only way this could be stopped is:

All other clubs in the Prem/La liga/Bundesliga/Italian/French leagues decide not to sell players to the Superleague clubs.

In 3 years the SL clubs would be fecked.

No Mbappes, no Bruno, etc.

They could have all the money in the world, yet, they couldn't spend it.
Sure, you could buy brazilians and other South Americans....
Good post. Hadn't thought of this.
 

48 hours

Full Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2018
Messages
6,658
Location
Cheshire
The NFL merged with the AFL and it didn't ruin American football. The NBA merged with the ABA and didn't ruin basketball. The National League and American League started playing interleague games and it didn't ruin baseball.

It seems absurd that some of the best players in the world might go their entire careers without facing each other. I get why traveling fans would be dismayed because it's ruining a culture built up for a century... but just in terms of the football it seems silly that the best aren't always playing the best.
Well the super league is hardly going to fix that issue with Arsenal, Spurs and the Milan’s being in it whilst, Dortmund, Bayern, Ajax, PSG, Leicester (on current form) Roma etc all aren’t in it.

and how many times a year would you want to play teams from the premier league? Play them twice in that, twice (?) again in the super league, and you could still meet them in the other cups.
 

crossy1686

career ending
Joined
Jun 5, 2010
Messages
31,486
Location
Manchester/Stockholm
Congrats on learning how to Google. If you bothered doing any actual research whatsoever you would see that winning the Gilbraltan league earned them a qualifying spot for the Europa League, where they lost to Rangers.

Not dissimilar to Midtjylland, who you tried to mock being in the Champions League, having to get through two qualification rounds before deservedly entering the group stage this season.

TL;DR - you haven't got a fecking clue what you are talking about.
Yep, the mighty Midtjylland and Lincoln Red Imps battling it out in a Champions League final any day now, what a time to be alive.

If you've got to play two qualification rounds to get into a tournament, you've got no business being there.
 

VorZakone

What would Kenny G do?
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
32,618
Why would they boycott and put their financial future in jeopardy?

Just by looking at number, clubs are going to increase their revenue by 50%-60% and this will trickle down to players as salary. No clubs outside of those participating will pay what they are earning right now let alone what these player could earn in 2 or 3 years time.
Wait till they set a salary cap.
 

flappyjay

Full Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
Messages
5,931
The breakaways are going to have to go home with their tails between their legs. The reaction has been fierce and overwhelming. The hit to UEFA's pockets is not immediate, it'll take a couple of seasons before they feel it. This hammer is immediate.
The PL would feel an immediate blow too. If the big 6 teams are banned from the PL, fans of these teams from around the world will not pay their subscriptions and the broadcasters will feel the pain. They will then sue the PL. This is a calculated move by the cnuts at these clubs.
 

Zehner

Football Statistics Dork
Joined
Mar 29, 2018
Messages
7,984
Location
Germany
Supports
Bayer 04 Leverkusen
The only way this could be stopped is:

All other clubs in the Prem/La liga/Bundesliga/Italian/French leagues decide not to sell players to the Superleague clubs.

In 3 years the SL clubs would be fecked.

No Mbappes, no Bruno, etc.

They could have all the money in the world, yet, they couldn't spend it.
Sure, you could buy brazilians and other South Americans....

I'm not even sure that this would be possible. The authorities behind player licenses etc. are the UEFA/FIFA and the domestic leagues. If they build a parallel competition it is possible that players would legally be allowed to be contracted for two clubs simultaneously. It would be treated like a differet sport. Just like a membership in a football club doesn't prevent you from joining a basketball team. I'm sure there'll be working laws to be considered, too, but I doubt this new constellation would have absolutely zero influence on the fees paid at all.
 

Brightonian

Full Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
14,090
Location
Juanderlust
All these false comparisons with the problems with UEFA, FIFA, the CL, clubs funded by oil magnates and nation states and all the other things that are problematic about modern football are missing the point.

You do not get into this 'competition' on merit.

There's no way past that, for me. Leicester's league win would not have earned them a chance to play in it. If West Ham get fourth this season, that will not earn them a chance to play in it. Football may have structurally undermined its own meritocracy in a number of ways already but the principle remains that you can play your way to the top. The ESL would end that principle.
 

BFernandes

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 12, 2020
Messages
858
Location
Groom Lake
Threatening to ban players from representing their countries if they take part in this competition is absolutely shocking.
 

crossy1686

career ending
Joined
Jun 5, 2010
Messages
31,486
Location
Manchester/Stockholm
What don’t you get about this?

It’s protectionism of the biggest clubs so that they’re guaranteed revenue every year. No surprise AC Milan are there for instance having been fecking awful on merit for a decade, their owners can capitalise on their past to make a quick buck. It’s no longer about football, just money.

We’re guaranteed to stay in as a founding member, at least until the snakes show their colours and boot us out if we’re not valuable to their little money making operation any longer.

We don’t get relegated so we play them every season until nobody can be arsed anymore.

It’s the elites saying we want it all and leaving nothing for anyone else.
It's actually the elites saying "we want a fair share of what we actually bring to the table for once" and there's nothing wrong with that.

I know it's trendy at the moment to be all doom and gloom and see this as the death of football but none of that is going to happen. Look around at other sports and tell me where an influx of money has ruined the game? People said exactly the same thing as this when the CL came along, guess the game was ruined and owners made quick bucks a long time ago then?
 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
65,353
Location
France
The NFL merged with the AFL and it didn't ruin American football. The NBA merged with the ABA and it didn't ruin basketball. The National League and American League started playing interleague games and it didn't ruin baseball.

It seems absurd that some of the best players in the world might go their entire careers without facing each other. I get why traveling fans would be dismayed because it's ruining a culture built up for a century... but just in terms of the football it seems silly that the best aren't always playing the best.
It would be absurd if the CL didn't exist and these players faced each others multiple times in their careers. Also the best NFL, NBA and MLB players do not necessarily face each others regularly, the nature of conferences and divisions means that certain matchups are rare and can only happen in the last rounds of the playoff.
The other issue is that amercan sports have been built around closed leagues, franchises and varsity, the entire structure from top to bottom makes sense. Here we have a clunky unbalanced structure.
 

holdsteady

Hates Sir Alex Ferguson
Joined
Jul 15, 2009
Messages
5,424
Who cares? Everything is made for consumer consumption these days, not sure why you're so anti American all of a sudden. If the model works then what does it matter?

The reason people are getting upset by this is getting wilder by the second
Acquiescence to the almighty dollar is not what a football club is about.
 

flappyjay

Full Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
Messages
5,931
I’m not sure that is true, given the interest in United-Liverpool and other domestic rivals every season/
I remember when Jose was at Madrid and there was a season where there were a bunch of classicos. We all still got excited to watch them through out the season.
 

b20times

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 3, 2018
Messages
326
Clubs in debt plus covid pandemic and no money coming through the turnstiles. Something had to give and it's turned out this superleague is the saving grace before clubs go bump.
It's just morally wrong.
 

RedRonaldo

Wishes to be oppressed.
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Messages
18,996
The only way this could be stopped is:

All other clubs in the Prem/La liga/Bundesliga/Italian/French leagues decide not to sell players to the Superleague clubs.

In 3 years the SL clubs would be fecked.

No Mbappes, no Bruno, etc.

They could have all the money in the world, yet, they couldn't spend it.
Sure, you could buy brazilians and other South Americans....
But for sure, all top players will want to play in super league, as that’s where all the big money and spotlight is on.

So possible scenario: All other clubs in PL etc refuse to sell players to super league club, and all top players from those clubs will sit out their contract to get free transfer to super league clubs.
 

Sentient Meat

Full Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2014
Messages
443
Well the super league is hardly going to fix that issue with Arsenal, Spurs and the Milan’s being in it whilst, Dortmund, Bayern, Ajax, PSG, Leicester (on current form) Roma etc all aren’t in it.

and how many times a year would you want to play teams from the premier league? Play them twice in that, twice (?) again in the super league, and you could still meet them in the other cups.
Baseball players in the National League would never play against baseball players in the American League unless they made the World Series. Sure it was special, but it was a tragedy that certain pitchers never faced certain batters over their entire career. Obviously it's only a start as they will eventually recruit the Bayerns and PSG over time... and they will need to make concessions to the loyal fans who followed them around for years... but it will an amazing league to watch and the domestic leagues will still continue to feed players to the superleague... I don't see how this is the end of the world as long as they find a way to include the traveling fans somehow.
 

Brightonian

Full Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
14,090
Location
Juanderlust
I’m not sure that is true, given the interest in United-Liverpool and other domestic rivals every season/
United-Liverpool has its own attractions, but they're different from those of playing Madrid or Bayern. We always know we will get to play Liverpool twice again next season. You never know how long it might take you to claw your way to the next game against Madrid, and that brings its own special something.

Also, incidentally, games against Ajax, Porto, Marseille, Roma... but apparently these don't interest enough people because the clubs aren't rich enough.
 
Simon Stone: The Super League clubs have contacted UEFA and FIFA issuing notice of legal proceedings designed to block any sanctions the two governing bodies may try to enforce over The Super League's formation

pratyush_utd

Can't tell DeGea and Onana apart.
Joined
Aug 30, 2017
Messages
8,421
 

Kostov

Full Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2017
Messages
9,399
Location
Skopje, Macedonia
Because they're not just fecking over UEFA. It is fecking over the Leagues and Fans of all the Clubs not invited to this circus.

If this shit was done 20 years ago Newcastle would be a founding member. 40 years ago Everton would be. As its now Spurs are and will forever be. fecking over clubs like Newcastle and Everton forever. Who wants that?
The FA is no better than Uefa so no simpathy, and I don't think the fans have to be affected by this, the FA through the likes of Sky and other media outlets are trying to make like they care for the fans when in reality they are only worried for themselves, therefor they can ban the clubs from domestic competitions and harm the fans.
 

Kita

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
1,625
I have been reading a lot of about this Super League today and watching a lot of reactions. Some background about where my views are coming from here: I was born in Poland but grew up in America. I followed the World Cup and Euros but that was essentially it. My cousin visited me in the States and began to show me United matches and got me into the club. This was late 2000s. I haven't missed a Champ League or Premier League match since. I fell in love. The passion, the history, the structure, everything. It all meant something. I missed the majority of United's glory years but went back to watch a lot of it. It was incredible.

I was a massive NFL and NBA fan growing up. Once I got into (proper) football, it all seemed pointless. Teams in those two leagues get rewarded for being bad. You get rewarded for losing. Think about that concept. The NBA regular season is largely irrelevant. The NFL season? The best teams do not win. The New England Patriots were 18-0 going into the Super Bowl and lost. The playoffs are one and done. They were by far the best team that season and lost one game and were not champions.

Meanwhile in football, you get the best teams that win the league each season. There are no massive flukes because you cannot luck your way into a title. Even Leicester deserved on merit the season they won because they were the best team that season (maybe not most talented but irrelevant). Even the Champions League you have group stages and two matches for elimination prior to the final.

This Super League is an absolute joke for many reasons I have seen mentioned and someone that rarely get mentioned. The Champions League is something you look forward to during a work day here. I love working from home because I can pull up midweek games and watch them. In the office, I can stream them on my phone and still enjoy. It is an amazing competition and has incredible moments. Sure, the big teams win this. However, you still have great storylines. Giant slayers happen all the time. For a lot of these clubs, those are moments they remember. Scoring against United, beating City at home, going to Real Madrid and playing there. For a lot of teams (Belgian, Swiss, Polish, Ukrainian, etc.) these are the moments they do not forget. Those are now gone. Real Madrid should be absolutely ashamed for doing this. The Champion's League is a competition they are kings in. They are so admired in this competition and they will piss it all away. Disgraceful.

Domestically, what is the point? The second you are out of the title race, why even try? Liverpool would be resting players by New Years this season. Why compete in the EPL when you are still playing so many games in the super league? Getting 2nd, 3rd, 4th in the EPL is irrelevant. So once City or Liverpool or United get a comfortable lead then why keep trying? All 6 English teams will not remain competitive in the EPL so I would guess at least 3 will be resting players by New Years to focus on Super League placement (if they even care about that). It destroys the competition in domestic leagues. What about teams like Leicester, West Ham, Aston Villa? These teams can overtake Spurs easily (or already have) as the consistent top finishers. Now they do it for nothing. What is the point of the season once a team has a somewhat comfortable lead.

There is no risk for the big teams. No reason to push for the league. No reason to compete. The money will constantly come in and it will be mostly the same every season. You will push to win the Super League but once that is out of the realm of possibility, what is the competition? Spurs will be walking through the motions in the Super League within a month. They will not be punished for not being competitive because their owner is on the board. It is a complete joke of a league where teams will not get punished. I hope the Leagues, UEFA and FIFA come down on this. It will ruin mid table clubs and make winning the league even more impossible.
 
  • Like
Reactions: esmufc07

Mike Smalling

Full Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2018
Messages
10,464
Your team just built a new stadium so more fans could watch them play and therefore increase their revenue. That's okay but playing in a competition is 'sickening'? That's some moral dilemma you've got there
Non sequitur of the decade.
 

crossy1686

career ending
Joined
Jun 5, 2010
Messages
31,486
Location
Manchester/Stockholm
Acquiescence to the almighty dollar is not what a football club is about.
Then I guess we should stop all advertising and sponsorships, cancel streaming services, stop with the replica shirts, stop building bigger stadiums and not enter competitions that include prize money from now on. If we're going to be purists we might as well go all in instead of choosing which parts we like and which parts we don't
 

Brightonian

Full Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
14,090
Location
Juanderlust
Your team just built a new stadium so more fans could watch them play and therefore increase their revenue. That's okay but playing in a competition is 'sickening'? That's some moral dilemma you've got there
It's not a competition because it's not based on merit. How can you not see that this is the reason people object to it, and why all the comparisons you want to make to the money in football elsewhere are irrelevant. Yes football may already be a corrupt cash cow but you have to win games to earn a place in the CL and if you don't win games you can be relegated from the PL.
 

DickDastardly

New Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2015
Messages
7,298
Location
Mean machine 00
That's not how it works, the players that wants to leave would simply not extend or resigned. One of the reasons players don't resign is because FIFA wouldn't register the player with his new club but in this case the competition they are joining is out of FIFA's jurisdiction.
True that.

You would still have to wait for 5 years till the contract expires.

You have 3 billions, but i still won't sell you my new shinning toy for you to play with.

A childish game, but hell, you fight fire with fire.

I'm not even sure that this would be possible. The authorities behind player licenses etc. are the UEFA/FIFA and the domestic leagues. If they build a parallel competition it is possible that players would legally be allowed to be contracted for two clubs simultaneously. It would be treated like a differet sport. Just like a membership in a football club doesn't prevent you from joining a basketball team. I'm sure there'll be working laws to be considered, too, but I doubt this new constellation would have absolutely zero influence on the fees paid at all.
A contract is the law. You put in the contract that you can't play for anybody else during your time in the club.
Not all good players could play for the SL 20 clubs.
Young players....rising stars. Haalands, Mbappes, etc. We all know where they started.
 

Ixion

Full Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2003
Messages
15,275
The FA is no better than Uefa so no simpathy, and I don't think the fans have to be affected by this, the FA through the likes of Sky and other media outlets are trying to make like they care for the fans when in reality they are only worried for themselves, therefor they can ban the clubs from domestic competitions and harm the fans.
This will ruin the Premier League which will affect the Championship, League 1 and 2. You talk about the FA and ignore all the teams in those Leagues. This will squeeze many of the clubs in those Leagues out of existence. It is to establish 12 teams as the only thing that matter in football for now and always. This is terrible for the fans.
 

Zehner

Football Statistics Dork
Joined
Mar 29, 2018
Messages
7,984
Location
Germany
Supports
Bayer 04 Leverkusen
Then I guess we should stop all advertising and sponsorships, cancel streaming services, stop with the replica shirts, stop building bigger stadiums and not enter competitions that include prize money from now on. If we're going to be purists we might as well go all in instead of choosing which parts we like and which parts we don't
Man, you're not getting the point at all.