European Super League

[Luffy]

I have been harping on this above, but I still can't wrap my head around this. If the business case laid out to JP Morgan was an explosion of revenue out of the states I just can not see any way this happens. Native (non ex-pat) Football fandom is still nascent here, and the majority of us take our cues from our ex-pat friends or from what we see on tv coming from Europe (just look at the MLS team names for gods sake). The complete negative reaction to this will trickle down to all the viewers and I just can not fathom any instance in which they maintain, let alone expand, on the current CL viewer base. Few people here are going to pay extra for this. I guess we would watch it if it gets bundled into Amazon Prime or Disney+, but we would not seek it out and I would drop any streaming service that starts charging extra.

tldr; if this plan at all requires a significant viewer base in the US they fecked up.

IMHO I think they are rather counting initially on the viewership that fans of the ESL clubs who hail from Asia, Africa, Australia, South America, and neutrals will generate. Those who do not have strong ties with the clubs at a local level will not care much about where the team is playing as long as they can see them playing against the best the world has to offer. And there are a lot of these types of fans out there. Hell, even I have been guilty of creating custom leagues in PES which would look suspiciously like the ESL. There are people who would love to see that mirrored in real life.

Eventually, there will be kids who will know only ESL as being the crême de la crême of football, and they won’t have a clue what we “legacy fans” (urgh) are talking about, or even why we cherish the old system so much.

They are playing the long game, but I think that they unfortunately won’t even have to wait that long before being vindicated for their decision to break away.

 

[meamth]

That video makes the opposite point you're making? They're held back by their own league's tv money, so they'd have the most to gain from joining the Super League.

They've been monopolizing the Bundesliga, so why are they against monopolizing league?

 

[Shane88]

Ståle Solbakken, Norwegian national team manager, was also provoked by Agnelli on Monday.

Andrea Agnelli (Juventus president) has been one of the driving forces in recent years. In recent years, they have been knocked out by Lyon, Porto and Ajax in the Champions League. Why the hell **** should they be in such a tournament then? Tottenham and Arsenal are currently probably not among the 20-30 best teams in Europe, says Solbakken.

https://www.vg.no/sport/fotball/i/JJe7dj/uefa-president-truer-gigantene-refser-fotballtopper

Cnuts.

 

[Fooza]

I am loving the drama of all this I have to say. Football was ruined the second they let countries and sugar daddies buy football clubs. I want this to blow up further.

Seconded, as much as it's greed and hate to see it the ethos being destroyed in football, I'm also enjoying seeing UEFA, Fifa and Premier league burning after they've been making a lot of money and allowing the sport to become controlled by sugar daddies.

 

[Offside]

Didn’t Sir Matt decline an offer to join the 1958/59 European Cup because it was anti the competition? Our team had died when we were top of the league but since we didn’t qualify we didn’t accept the offer.

Now we’re wanting to have permanent access to a new top European competition just because we are rich? Not even that we’re the ones creating the competition completely undermining years and years of history? Pretty insulting to compare to Sir Matt. Those clowns at the top of United are so far out of touch.

 

[Gehrman]

I still can't believe Spurs are in this and not Ajax, Roma or Porto, or basically any great european club.

 

[El Zoido]

What is your point? We should get behind it?

There was a big fuss about the Qatar and Russia World Cups, it was the straw that broke the camels back when it came to public acknowledgment of corruption in football. There is a lot of concern about the growing financial disparity in football, about the Chelseas, the PSGs, the City's, the Barcas, the Real Madrids. People quite clearly detest the commercial and soulless nature of the likes of us and Liverpool, the ridiculous sums of money in football and the wages which come with that.

Football is broken and has been for years. It's just desserts for FIFA, UEFA, the PL and the other domestic leagues, I don't think anybody is arguing that. Nobody is shedding tears for them, we all know what they are. However, it's the fans that lose out here. It's a bunch of billionaires with zero interest in football effectively taking the game away from the fans and calling the shots as they see fit, and if you think the actual football is top of the the agenda for the likes of the Glazers then I think you're in for a very big shock.

This is why it’ll work. Everyone kicks up a fuss, but before too long, we just accept it. “Greed always wins, oh well.” Nobody has the bottle to truly fight it.

 

[André Dominguez]

It is more complicated than just saying "well, look at the NBA". That league (as well as the NHL, MLB and NFL) have been run by cartels since its inception, and have never been run differently. It's how the leagues were created in the first place. The draft system, the playoffs, the entire shebang is created with profits and cartels in mind. European football (or football in general) wasn't created this way.

Nevermind the fact that if a team becomes unprofitable (?), they just move it somewhere else, which has happened plenty of times.
I hate Arsenal and Spurs, but even I would be quite sad if they suddenly became "Arsenal Rome" and "Lisbon Hotspur".

That would not be sad. would be terrible. My big hope is that this is a big bluff, because they need at least 16 teams to make a runnable full season with league + playoffs. I think agreements will be made, rich will be richer and everybody is happy, except the peripherical leagues.

 

[AshRK]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[red4ever 79]

I still can't believe Spurs are in this and not Ajax, Roma or Porto, or basically any great european club.

Porto were asked and quite rightly said no

 

[RedDevil@84]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[AneRu]

Maybe it will be tied up for years, but players will be banned in time for the Euros and they'll have to wait for all the legal stuff to move through before they can play for their country in Euros/WC again. That might be a long time.

Yes that could be a long time but I don't trust the likes of Raiola and Mendes to forgo the big payday that this ESL promises and I don't see all the FAs agreeing to ban all the players either. Something will have to give but it would be incredibly incompetent of the rebels to go all in without the buy in of the players and their agents, I would expect that from Woodward but not Perez and Agnelli!

 

[meamth]

Same for us though. It is normal for us to be knocked out of the CL into the Europa league.

Yeah, but being relegated means they can try again to enter next season because they are still in the UEFA association.

This is like breaking away from a relationship with hotter chick, but you can't go back to your ex situation. Of course the clubs will only accept security for their participation.

 

[VorZakone]

I still can't believe Spurs are in this and not Ajax, Roma or Porto, or basically any great european club.

Because Spurs are financially more valuable than those 3.

 

[Ixion]

Make it happen. I don't care about all these outrages and crying from UEFA, PL, Sky etc who are crying because they see loss in revenue and hiding behind fake morality and tradition.

As for fans as a whole, almost every new thing whether they'd turn out good or bad have usually always been met with outrage. If this SL works out people will be on board.

Yeah feck all the other teams in the world. Football doesn't exist outside of these 12 teams.

 

[JPRouve]

Even if you look at it with complete bias, forgetting the good of the game and just what is best for United.. this isn't even it.

If we are guaranteed entry into the biggest European Competition every year anyway, there is absolutely nothing to keep the Glazers investing in the playing squad. They'll just let us spend enough to keep the Squad a PL team (like Mike Ashley) and pocket the rest,

You shouldn't worry about that, it's like the NFL the incentive is TV money and making sure that the ESL attracts eyeballs. The incentive is money and the other owners are the ones pushing for investment.

 

[peridigm]

It's a joke.

The tweet literally says "April 2031" a whole ten years away.

It's Mitten Ogden being sarcastic, being writing a hypothesis.

EDIT: Ogden not Mitten.

FFS. I'm so wound up over this I've forgotten basic reading comprehension.

 

[sullydnl]

I still can't believe Spurs are in this and not Ajax, Roma or Porto, or basically any great european club.

It's pretty hilarious that this supposedly great European Super League counts three teams from London among its 12 members too. Not exactly a broad idea of what makes a super league.

 

[André Dominguez]

This still mystifies me. Every single friend of mine who actually pays extra to watch footy (Peacock+ for PL, Paramount+ for CL/EL, ESPN+ for Bund.) is 100% against this. I will not pay for whatever streaming service they sell their souls to and no one I know will either. There is just not going to be the demand here to pay even more for a weekday league, especially since the most fervant fans, the ones who would potentially pay, are dead set against this.

The only possibilities are that they have completely misread the room and their market in the States, they don't care about the US Market, or, as someone commented earlier, the end goal here is a weekend league. I don't think any of those options ends well for them.

They have a content to sell like a TV show with endless seasons. I think it will have the appeal on the midterm. I really hope it never happens because it would be a very strong focal point for football to rely on, and it would mean the second and thir tier leagues would just become weaker because tv money would be spread all over.

 

[Buchan]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Good luck to them getting those figures when 50%+ of loyal fans will boycott this abomination. Do they really believe fair-weather fans will pump that much capital into the game, and on an annual basis at that?

No chance.

 

[Amadaeus]

What is with the warning sign about inciting violence. Some members on here taking this news too seriously

I believe going into next season clubs that decided to join this league should be deducted 20 points from next season campaign and have players banned from international competition, to set an example.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

What's this UEFA plonker going to do if his 'legals' tell him that he can't ban players from their tournament?

 

[Dismember]

I think that it is obvious such a super league is now driven by greed and power when you look at it on the smaller scale, however, there is something else happening on the bigger scale. This is an international issue that started with American and Chinese businessmen affiliated with their corresponding governments slowly moving into the European football scene because it is a treasure for Europe that has made it stand out sport wise and even political and financial wise. That meant Europe is losing influence over its own scene and now they are making the bigger move specifically the Americans since the Chinese involvement is always merely superficial.

However that doesn’t mean that Americans are overreaching here. I mean just look at most of the responses: they’re ruining football, football is dead, money is now taking over, etc etc. but what football are they talking about? European football only? Football is or at least should be a worldwide sport and living of glories of the past is what made European football an attraction to sport fans worldwide which left the asian and African and American scene neglected. Isn’t living of the glory of the past what allowed Europe to capitalize economically and politically? yes the way the European super league is taking off now is pure greed business but this is only a more vulgar and sudden extension of the pure greed and business and power that controlled this sport. Dont get me wrong, what I hate about such a super league is how some players might now earn crazy wages when they don’t even deserve the big wages they earn now, while other players might not earn anything.

But there is a silver lining if this is fixed. If such a super league doesn’t only force a flux of finances from “lower” clubs and “lower” players but instead helps establish super leagues in the south Americas and Asia and all over the world and thus instead of having players earn triple what they earn now, have some go to mls or other super leagues to strengthen them and maybe create secondary leagues as well in each area. In other words, domestic leagues will become obsolete and it would be as if the whole world sport-wise becomes smaller and more connected.

 

[Gasolin]

Interestingly enough, the German teams Bayern, BVD and Leipzig as well as Porto and PSG have refused, the first 4 have issued official statement backing the UEFA CL new format instead. Without Bayern, that battle would have been lost. Now, it's still unbalanced but maybe there is a rapport de force to look for.

 

[meamth]

The no relegation was the starting point. The point being that the most marketable clubs want to keep the money for themselves.

I think the founding clubs, backed with millions of research and investment developing this will always predict this outcomes. The backlash, betrayal to football as what the media is suggesting.

To join something new by breaking away from established organization, they must have some form of security. I believe that is why there is no relegation for them. This is suicidal risk, and they all know it.

 

[Strelok]

Because you need leverage to make criminal capitalists change their view. How can you be so blind as to not see they wouldn't care if no external pressure was applied?

No one is supporting UEFA or FIFA but opposing the ESL. How is this so difficult for some of you to comprehend? Is nuance that difficult?

But do you think it's fair for the players? What did they do wrong here? Professionally respecting their contracts?

Do you think it's right to arrest the child of a kidnapper and tell him you'll harm his child if he won't release the hostage?

 

[pcaming]

If they ban the clubs, would the broadcasters have a right to challenge the money they have to pay uefa and the leagues? There's so many strings to this web.

 

[horsechoker]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[GatoLoco]

You can't erase the memories of those who lived through it. But you can change the perceptions of the future generations. If the records consistently say that United never won the treble, in time that will be the accepted fact.

History is whatever is written in the official record books.

Well, there was a similar clash in European basketball two decades ago, and the records are still there. While it's true we might be closer to a post-orwellian world more than in the past, that does not mean we will reach that extreme situation you describe.

 

[klayton88]

Would anybody be so kind as to give a few bullet points of the developments/key bits from today?

 

[barros]

I think the SL have only 2 options here, call quits and say was late April's fool or invite more teams to a no-relegation scheme because a team will not play as a guest 1 year and then playing on a lower division the next since they would be kicked from the top division. A league may not able to kick the team out but would be able to relegate that team to a lower division. In this scenario they will have to add more teams from countries like Netherlands and Portugal for example, Ajax has more CL wins than United, Inter, Chelsea and Juventus. In a situation like that FIFA will make a lot of noise but wouldn't ban any player because they need them to make money when basically all the best national teams couldn't have their best players.

 

[Boavista]

Nope not even a little bit
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...ying-squad-overturn-Champions-League-ban.html

All this time barred nonsense was just that. The actual letter stating Mansour was providing money to top up the Aabar sponsorhip wasn't time barred, its was successfully argued, discredited and beaten by our dream team of lawyers.

I don't really see how that article supports your point beyond City sparing no expense. You're implying UEFA lost that case because they had worse lawyers, while at the same time saying the facts were on city's side.
I still think UEFA has enough money to employ lawyers of the highest standard.

 

[Harry190]

Good luck to them getting those figures when 50%+ of loyal fans will boycott this abomination. Do they really believe fair-weather fans will pump that much capital into the game, and on an annual basis at that?

No chance.

Haha. 50%. You're about to learn something about crowds. Unless this is a satirical/sarcastic post.

 

[CassiusClaymore]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

The only good thing to come out of this is that Twitter has been on fire today.

 

[Ixion]

I'm really judging any "fan" that thinks this is a good idea. Not to get too Top Red about it but it's definitely a certain sort.

 

[Buchan]

Haha. 50%. You're about to learn something about crowds. Unless this is a satirical/ironic post.

Which is?

 

[El Zoido]

Good luck to them getting those figures when 50%+ of loyal fans will boycott this abomination. Do they really believe fair-weather fans will pump that much capital into the game, and on an annual basis at that?

No chance.

They will. The storm will die down eventually and they know it, if the 15 teams hold strong and retain the players, this will be an enormous success.

 

[André Dominguez]

The comparison with Nba is hardly the same. Big market teams has generally most chance to be successful but not everytime. If managed properly, every NBA team has a chance to be champions. Just like Ceferin put, clubs like Arsenal, United, Milan etc. wants this simply because they had to be properly managed to be successful and their money machine keep working. Yet, clubs like Sevilla, Atalanta etc has done everything right and still get punished. That's why I said who determines which club can attend.

I don't know the reaction of Asians and Americans. Sooner than later, this project is prone to fail. Especially with this many backlash.

I think it will faill from the beggining, since for this to work they would need to estabilish a much more complete league system for all this idea to be accepted, and they would need the top 16 clubs to join which is not happening now.
Most of those games is something you can see every season on EPL, so they really have to be relyin on bluff. What concerns me is that names like JP Morgan are behind this, and those guys do not play arround with their money.

 

[UnitedFan93]

If this goes ahead, any tw*t that goes to Old Trafford to watch a Super League match should take a long, hard look at themselves. They will be no different to the Glazers in my eyes and just as involved in destroying football.

I'm absolutely ready to jack it all in and disconnect from football completely. Who the hell would want to watch this? A league where clubs are guaranteed obscene amounts with no threat of relegation. It's absolutely appalling, a hijack of European football.

 

[calodo2003]

I honestly doubt it could have happened. Banners and planes would have been childs play in comparison to the reaction to this.

I agree.

This seems like it might have been accelerated with the current sterility in the stadia.