European Super League | 18th April 2021 - 20th April 2021 RIP

Do you want the ESL to happen?


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SmallCaine

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The 5 free spots is too few. It's happening folks, if Perez says it is, then it is.
Perez also said bayern and psg haven't been invited, the leaked docs say otherwise. Perez is blowing a lot of smoke, esl haven't even managed to sign up all 15 founder clubs but if perez is to be believed they have all signed legally binding documents. According to sam Lee who is pretty reliable with city news, this is not legally binding.
 
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RooneyLegend

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It’s City and Chelsea, who also believe Spurs can be convinced to join them to make the whole thing collapse.
Knowing Perez, the penalties to leaving those contracts are so severe that they are going no where.
 

el3mel

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These founders clearly want want the security of guaranteed entry, so they can save on investment in bad seasons. Going through the domestic league, they're required to have a certain standard, especially leagues like PL that open door for takeover. They're afraid of richer guy joining the PL and throw money at the problem to turn thing upside down for them.

This has business priority written all over them in disguise of saving football (sport). They risk a lot pushing this move, so clearly they want some equal return for this. Relegation clause is never considered by them.
They basically want to dominate the sport. These 12 clubs will be far ahead of any other club in the world. They would be be gaining ten times more money annually in comparison to any other club. The gap between them and other clubs outside ESL will be huge few years later. Football will basically just revolve around these 12 clubs, feck the rest.
 

SmallCaine

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Good luck with banning, Real, Barca and United and their players... you’d just turned the CL into a glorified Europa league.

Anyway not of this is going to happen. This is just big clubs flexing on uefa that they do not need them and never have so they better pony up $$

United and Arsenal alone have carried Europa so they should receive shit loads more in money for just being in the competition.
The other option is let them play and win this season and for the champions to then not show up next season because esl is where they want to play.
 

gorky_utd

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You just have to look at the IPL and how successful its been and I am sure it inspired the Big 12 to look at competition differently.
I am pretty sure they have studied it. India is a low income country and IPL is a two month competition. Yet, IPL generates huge money via a closed tournament format. Now imagine, the biggest sport in the world, with the rich Chinese and American audiences, how much money they are going to make.
Casual viewers are a weak foundation though. Its what killed the soccer leagues in the US back in the 70's that was propped up by famous former greats like Pele and Beckenbauer playing with complete amateurs without much in the way of domestic development. The novelty wears off and the casual watcher watches something else.
Interesting. But they will also have two different groups. Nobody knows how the group's will be sorted so maybe that will make sure different teams play each other on different seasons atleast in the group stage. Plus, I have no doubt they will play reserves in the PL and rest the star players for ESL.
 

kouroux

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Some talk about the excitment of watching "big" teams clash regularly but if they do it in a context where there is zero competitiveness, zero price to pay for failure what's the point ?
These games would be like preseason tournaments, everyone would turn up for the money but the competition would be terrible.
It amazes me the founding clubs don't see it jut how am I kidding ? Of course they see it but they don't care one bit about competing.
 

Sir Matt

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The premier league shut that down to appease the big 6.
The Premier League killed it because the Saudi government has been pirating the PL and undermining its intellectual property rights because the Saudis are pissed at the Qataris.
 

SmallCaine

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I am pretty sure they have studied it. India is a low income country and IPL is a two month competition. Yet, IPL generates huge money via a closed tournament format. Now imagine, the biggest sport in the world, with the rich Chinese and American audiences, how much money they are going to make.

Interesting. But they will also have two different groups. Nobody knows how the group's will be sorted so maybe that will make sure different teams play each other on different seasons atleast in the group stage. Plus, I have no doubt they will play reserves in the PL and rest the star players for ESL.
ipl makes its big money because Indians love cricket. Americans may be rich but they don't give a crap about football atleast not the European version. I think someone pointed this out a few pages ago too, for all the global reach and fan base, the money pl makes is mostly down to TV deals in england not in China or USA or anywhere else in the world.
 

RooneyLegend

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Some talk about the excitment of watching "big" teams clash regularly but if they do it in a context where there is zero competitiveness, zero price to pay for failure what's the point ?
These games would be like preseason tournaments, everyone would turn up for the money but the competition would be terrible.
It amazes me the founding clubs don't see it jut how am I kidding ? Of course they see it but they don't care one bit about competing.
They're gonna be competing to win the premier european club competition. Why would there be zero competitiveness. The reason they don't get this point is because it's pretty much a EPL thing. Madrid and Barca qualify for the CL every season without fail. I'm sure someone like Perez doesn't get the whole 'top 4' race thing.
 

ti vu

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Going by the current 12, this super league is meant for business men/ owner/ chairmen's clubs. By what they are saying and briefing, they're moving forward in grabbing the attention of young viewers, new fans. With this in mind, the likes of Roma, Ajax, Marseille... can't draw as big the new fan base outside of their countries. That is only comparing to Spurs with no trophies to show, has been able to become popular to the new fans in the past seasons.

This structure takes alot of teams with serious support out of the running. The likes of Roma, Ajax, Marseille. Don't know what they're thinking.
 
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Abizzz

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They're gonna be competing to win the premier european club competition. Why would there be zero competitiveness. The reason they don't get this point is because it's pretty much a EPL thing. Madrid and Barca qualify for the CL every season without fail. I'm sure someone like Perez doesn't get the whole 'top 4' race thing.
But would it be? There'd be 12 potential winners vs. a tournament of national champions of the pyramids of each country (the possible other 8 will be there to make up the numbers). How would we even know it's still a competition if it's exclusively managed by themselves, it might as well be the WWE in 5 years time if these "brains" become convinced Hollywood endings are more entertaining ($$$) than regular sports.
 

Cascarino

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To fix the problem you also have to understand this problem. For the drivers of the ESL this is as much about the failure of FFP as anything else. The ESL will have a salary cap and maybe a transfer cap. If UEFA had enforced their own rules this wouldn’t be happening. You are inevitably part of the situation you face.

I am disgusted by this whole debacle, but we need to fix what is broken for us to defeat this ludicrous proposition.
That is way down on the motivating factors list.
 

smi11ie

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Football clubs rise and fall. Today it is Man Utd and Man City but previously it was Nottingham Forrest and Derby. This will kill football and franchise the game. It cannot happen. I don't mind an ESL but you cannot have a fair league when teams are protected against relegation.
 
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Giggs86

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Insulting another member
The 67 people who’ve voted that they’re in favour of this are a disgrace and have no interest in football, casual fair weather fans who have no idea what the games about or what it means to people. The people who are “waiting for more information” are just as bad. The information that’s already came out is enough to be disgusted at the greed of these yank owners ruining our game. How can you even call yourselves football fans let alone United fans? Jokers.
How about you get off your high horse you clown
 

teteus

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Keep this in mind: the ONLY reason why so many of the big clubs want a Super League is having much, much money, and NOW. The likes of Agnelli don't care about competitivity, don't care about the health and popularity of the sport in the long term, don't care about winning, don't care even if any of their clubs finish in last place! All they want is the money they will get now from having the wealthiest and most popular teams playing against each other in every week. It's 100% business and short term maximization of monetary gain. Their mentality is like being a president of company and rob it to the point that it will face bankruptcy after you're gone, but you don't care because you're gone.

Simply participating in the Super League will give any clubs in it over 300 millions, even winning the Champions League doesn't give you that much money. And with SO much money, anyone who participates will be able to strengthen their squads even more and make the financial gap even bigger than it already is!

So, the Super League is repugnant because of the fixed spots that many clubs will have.

Also, the Super League can't be as sucessful as the NBA and NFL because football is structured at its core in a drastically different way to american sports. The american sports have many mechanisms that keep the unequality between teams of growing as big as it is becoming in football, specially after Bosman happened.

2021 is just 2020 Part Two in all aspects. The pandemic, of course and all its consequences in, well, everything in art, sports, economy, our lives. This Super League bullshit. El Chavo Del Ocho still out of all world's TV networks. Bolsonaro and Lula.
 
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flappyjay

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I don´t think the Super League could survive in a vacuum. There would not be many matches to watch in the end.
They would just invite more teams. Let's be honest there are owners out there that are hoping for an invite. It will not just be these 12 teams only like people keep saying. For instance I believe Roma have American owners and they would probably join.
 

Pow

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They would just invite more teams. Let's be honest there are owners out there that are hoping for an invite. It will not just be these 12 teams only like people keep saying. For instance I believe Roma have American owners and they would probably join.
Lmfao right on cue. I'm sure they ain't the only ones either desperate to join. fecking joke.
 

Klopper76

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I’d like to hear the opinion of supporters of teams like Bayern, Real, Barcelona, PSG etc on here. How’s the reaction to this amongst your fan bases been?
 

Pow

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I’d like to hear the opinion of the supporters
Bayern, Real, Barcelona, PSG etc on here. How’s the reaction to this amongst your fan bases been?
Real and barca fans all for It I bet. Or else their clubs are financially fecked.
 

NK86

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It's a fair generalisation. I'm a little more than a casual fan and I'm onboard with this plan. Id much rather watch Arsenal play real Madrid than Dundalk. Always felt that the top four trophy was bs and not something a club should be targetting. A super league makes much more sense than an arbitrary cutoff to determine if Arsenal can play in the CL or not.
I am not a casual fan and follow United religiously. However I would really enjoy the clubs to show UEFA and FIFA the middle finger. Yeah, I do want them to allow a more open league/tournament, but anything to get away from those corrupt arses.
 

gorky_utd

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ipl makes its big money because Indians love cricket. Americans may be rich but they don't give a crap about football atleast not the European version. I think someone pointed this out a few pages ago too, for all the global reach and fan base, the money pl makes is mostly down to TV deals in england not in China or USA or anywhere else in the world.
You are right. However, this implies that these owners believe in two scenarios.
1. They will be able to attract enough new fan bases to compensate some of their losses.
Or
2. Everybody will start watching ESL whenever it starts and all these protest will vanish.
I do not think a group like JP Morgan would be involved in a new project without thorough market research.
 

Pow

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You are right. However, this implies that these owners believe in two scenarios.
1. They will be able to attract enough new fan bases to compensate some of their losses.
Or
2. Everybody will start watching ESL whenever it starts and all these protest will vanish.
I do not think a group like JP Morgan would be involved in a new project without thorough market research.
3) they americanize the shit out of our clubs and sport. Get ready for all the half time performances bollocks and all that shit.
 

Giggs86

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Does anyone really thinks FIFA will ban players from representing their countries? Are they really that naive to think that anyone will bother watching a World Cup without 150 of the best players in the world in it?
 

sglowrider

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Some talk about the excitment of watching "big" teams clash regularly but if they do it in a context where there is zero competitiveness, zero price to pay for failure what's the point ?
These games would be like preseason tournaments, everyone would turn up for the money but the competition would be terrible.
It amazes me the founding clubs don't see it jut how am I kidding ? Of course they see it but they don't care one bit about competing.
I think the PL and the SL leagues will evolve as they tweak the SL. Many teams weren't that keen on the European Cup when it first started either, preferring to focus on their respective domestic leagues.

Maybe the pride or humiliation of getting your arse kicked on a global scale in a match against Barca, 5-1... I see you Arsenal may just give someone like Kroenke the incentive to pump some investment into it. Building the 'pride' of winning something takes time.

As the ESL progresses and allowing more teams into it, I can see two 'divisions' of 48 teams playing each other. This would eliminate the 'lack of competitive edge' that you get from lack of or very restricted need for qualifying or relegation.

I for one is very zen about it. There were massive changes some 30 years ago with the first attempt at the commercialisation of English football. There is a power shift from traditional broadcasters to content producers across the globe -- Disney wanting to take more control of their own content by being the deliverer themselves. Then the digital/IPTV broadcasters who have a lower costs base attacking after the terrestrial and then satellite broadcasters like BBC and then Sky and we have Amazon, Netflix and Google now inching its way into the traditional guys' sacred cows.

Personally, my back was broken when Roy Keane wanted to get paid £60k/week or he would leave United. I thought that was a disgusting amount of money to pay people to run around and kick a round ball.

I have been numbed to everything since. Little outrage left.
 

NinjaZombie

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What really worries me about all of this is that it feels like we are all United in despising the plans, but I have no idea of the demographic of this forum, or blue moon, or RAWK or Twitter even but I imagine it's all 'legacy fans'. What is the opinion of fans from Asia, USA, rest of the world that the proposals are clearly targeting?

If in favour then all that we will fight for will mean nothing. Manchester United will be nothing more than a brand name
Millenial Asian here. Most of my friends grew up watching 90s English football. The English games was the ones that got us hooked on football. We know clubs like Everton, West Ham etc are clubs steeped in history. Most of us are disgusted by this.

I don't know what the younger generation feel though. The "FIFA" generation.
 

BlackShark_80

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LaLiga won't expel Madrid, Barca or Atletico from the competition, among other things, because they believe that the Super League is a project that dead on arrival and won't be carried out.
 

Fridge chutney

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Does anyone really thinks FIFA will ban players from representing their countries? Are they really that naive to think that anyone will bother watching a World Cup without 150 of the best players in the world in it?
Who will watch a plastic league with no consequence of failure?

FIFA may very well follow through with their threat and the football world will be divided.
 

Pow

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I think the PL and the SL leagues will evolve as they tweak the SL. Many teams weren't that keen on the European Cup when it first started either, preferring to focus on their respective domestic leagues.

Maybe the pride or humiliation of getting your arse kicked on a global scale in a match against Barca, 5-1... I see you Arsenal may just give someone like Kroenke the incentive to pump some investment into it. Building the 'pride' of winning something takes time.

As the ESL progresses and allowing more teams into it, I can see two 'divisions' of 48 teams playing each other. This would eliminate the 'lack of competitive edge' that you get from lack of or very restricted need for qualifying or relegation.

I for one is very zen about it. There were massive changes some 30 years ago with the first attempt at the commercialisation of English football. There is a power shift from traditional broadcasters to content producers across the globe -- Disney wanting to take more control of their own content by being the deliverer themselves. Then the digital/IPTV broadcasters who have a lower costs base attacking after the terrestrial and then satellite broadcasters like BBC and then Sky and we have Amazon, Netflix and Google now inching its way into the traditional guys' sacred cows.

Personally, my back was broken when Roy Keane wanted to get paid £60k/week or he would leave United. I thought that was a disgusting amount of money to pay people to run around and kick a round ball.

I have been numbed to everything since. Little outrage left.
? You realise arsenal lost like 3 games within the span of a few years to bayern each 5 - 1
Heck they lost 10 - 2 on aggregate to bayern and kronke didn't give a shit.
Take away the jeopardy of relegation and the continued cash flow of being guaranteed in the Super League every year kronke has even less of a reason to give a shit about the team.
 

Pow

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LaLiga won't expel Madrid, Barca or Atletico from the competition, among other things, because they believe that the Super League is a project that dead on arrival and won't be carried out.
La liga is dead without them 3 clubs that's why.
 

NinjaZombie

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Why the white text? This is 100% true. PL without United is like the NBA without the Lakers.
United without the integrity and ethos of the old is just a money spinning franchise for the Glazers. feck that.
 

TsuWave

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Who will you support if this goes ahead as planned?
My dad and his family are united fans but my mother's side of the family are Huddersfield Town fans so that will be my team moving forward.
cutting emotional ties with a club isn’t that easy. most people on this forum know this because United has been giving headaches more than anything else for years now, yet we’re all still here in spiritual bondage
 

ti vu

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LaLiga won't expel Madrid, Barca or Atletico from the competition, among other things, because they believe that the Super League is a project that dead on arrival and won't be carried out.
La Liga is always up the big 3's asses. They need these 3, even if La Liga is treated as sidekick by them, as ESL going ahead.

The prediction is just misdirection. The main point is they don't dare to expel the big 3 regardless of situation. There is no disclaimer of following up on expulsion if the prediction fails.
 
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el3mel

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I think the PL and the SL leagues will evolve as they tweak the SL. Many teams weren't that keen on the European Cup when it first started either, preferring to focus on their respective domestic leagues.

Maybe the pride or humiliation of getting your arse kicked on a global scale in a match against Barca, 5-1... I see you Arsenal may just give someone like Kroenke the incentive to pump some investment into it. Building the 'pride' of winning something takes time.

As the ESL progresses and allowing more teams into it, I can see two 'divisions' of 48 teams playing each other. This would eliminate the 'lack of competitive edge' that you get from lack of or very restricted need for qualifying or relegation.

I for one is very zen about it. There were massive changes some 30 years ago with the first attempt at the commercialisation of English football. There is a power shift from traditional broadcasters to content producers across the globe -- Disney wanting to take more control of their own content by being the deliverer themselves. Then the digital/IPTV broadcasters who have a lower costs base attacking after the terrestrial and then satellite broadcasters like BBC and then Sky and we have Amazon, Netflix and Google now inching its way into the traditional guys' sacred cows.

Personally, my back was broken when Roy Keane wanted to get paid £60k/week or he would leave United. I thought that was a disgusting amount of money to pay people to run around and kick a round ball.

I have been numbed to everything since. Little outrage left.
Arsenal? Pride? The team whom I lost count of how many times got humiliated by big and embarrassing defeats in league and CL? The team who has been languishing around 8th-10th two seasons in a row now, basically becoming a midtable club? Arsenal?

No one gives a shit. This is just a business project. It's done so that these 12 clubs get ton of money and dominate the football world. Actual football will come second, period.
 

sglowrider

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? You realise arsenal lost like 3 games within the span of a few years to bayern each 5 - 1
Heck they lost 10 - 2 on aggregate to bayern and kronke didn't give a shit.
Take away the jeopardy of relegation and the continued cash flow of being guaranteed in the Super League every year kronke has even less of a reason to give a shit about the team.
:lol: :lol: I get my Arsenal news from AFTV so its hard to tell. My best mate's a gooner but whenever they lose he goes slient.
 

Giggs86

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Who will watch a plastic league with no consequence of failure?

FIFA may very well follow through with their threat and the football world will be divided.
What do you mean no consequence of failure? Do you think it will be easy to be the champions of a league that consists 12 of the best clubs in Europe? It will be like the hardest CL campaign ever, without enjoying the luck of the draw that Chelsea always gets for example. The consequence of failure is not winning it. And winning it will be harder than winning the CL.
 

el3mel

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What do you mean no consequence of failure? Do you think it will be easy to be the champions of a league that consists 12 of the best clubs in Europe? It will be like the hardest CL campaign ever, without enjoying the luck of the draw that Chelsea always gets for example. The consequence of failure is not winning it. And winning it will be harder than winning the CL.
What are they losing by not winning it, or heck, even reaching the playoff? What are they losing by even finishing last in their group?

Absolutely nothing. Ton of money and back at it again next year!