European Super League

[Bluelion7]

Can't help but think that Bayerns monopoly and stranglehold over Bundesliga is killing the product.

It is. The same problem with all the leagues outside the premiere league to one degree or another.

The fact that the year end outcome is essentially pre-ordained was listed as the number one reason by most viewers simply prefer the premiere league. They will follow what happens in other leagues, they will keep up with what their favorite players are doing, but often you can do that with highlights on places like YouTube. By and large they are not watching the league games of other leagues week to week, and TV companies are responding by not offering them very good rights to their games.

But this isn’t an easily fixed issue. For all the flack the FA gets they have simply created a much better product. The amount of profit sharing the lowest top division teams get is much higher than other leagues… MUCH higher. The golden parachutes teams going down get are paltry or don’t exist other places. The level of investment in things like academies are much higher in England.

Credit to Man United really. There was a time they had enough leverage they could have strong armed the FA, infiltrated everything, and created a stranglehold on the EPL, but they chose not to do that, and it was the right decision.

And then it got even better when Liecester City won the League. And now Arsenal, a “has been” club are back and leading the league with exciting football. You genuinely don’t know what will happen from the start of the EPL to the end.

And every year the exodus of top talent, not from clubs like Bayern or Real, but from Valencia, Atleti Dortmund, Bayer, etc to mid level EPL clubs grows. The EPL has nearly twice the number of players at the WC as the Bundesliga this year; another gap that widens every 4 years. And many of this players from the Bundesliga at the tournament are waiting for? Big money offers to go to primarily the EPL.

People get angry when this is spoken of out loud.. which is weird. It’s in articles all over the place; articles spanning decades as a warning. But that assumes that if we don’t talk about it the problem will go away .. which is obviously absurd.

Back before I could really watch any sort of European football in tv (for a lot of us regularly getting to see games of any sort didn’t start til around 2006), the team I followed from articles, buying jerseys, etc was Bayern. I really thought highly of their whole structure and how it’s like a giant family juggernaut. I still admire it. But the fact that they didn’t do more to enhance the entirety of the Bundesliga ecosystem was a bad, shortsighted move.

The fact that it is commonly accepted that Bayern have almost first refusal on any top German player at another German club is … not good for their product.

 

[Dave Smith]

Barca, Real and Juve can try all they want but they aren't likely to get this off the ground. The ECJ back UEFA. Sure, there is scope for them to do something but where are they getting the other clubs from. Germany, England and PSG are 100% out. Portugal I cannot see either, although can see them caving if they do get something off the ground.

However, this isn't the biggest issue, which is that UEFA can now sanction the three, no? If UEFA do that, then offer a couple of incentives to the clubs they'll try and hook into the ESL then it'll be game over.

Additionally, Juve are also getting done for defrauding the Financial markets, so they're more of a liability at the moment, rather than friend.

 

[Xaviesta]

The Super League was basically dead when the English clubs dropped off.

 

[Damien]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Juventus apparently going to withdraw.

 

[MegadrivePerson]

So just Barcelona and Real Madrid left in it then?

Should make for an interesting competition!

 

[Pintu]

So just Barcelona and Real Madrid left in it then?

Should make for an interesting competition!

I think Barcelona will withdraw soon enough if UEFA offers them a settlement where they are guaranteed that no UCL ban could follow as a consequence for the Negreira case….

 

[JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo]

Juve trying to suck up to Serie A

 

[Pintu]

Juve trying to suck up to Serie A

More like suck up to UEFA…. Their case with Italian FA is already settled. They renounced any appeal possibility (ended up with 10 points penalty instead of 15) and they won’t be prosecuted further.

 

[Arios]

First this looks bullshit.

I mean even the other teams that "left" formally are still there as they signed a contract and leaving on your own means paying a hefty sum for conctractual breach.
So all the others teams left simply by saying "oh we're withdrawing" but actually didn't do shit so it was just to appease their govt and UEFA but in facts....

So yeah why Juventus would be the only team officialy withdrawing from SL which means paying 100m fine? instead of just saying "oh we're leaving" like the rest did?

Also if it's true... Wow what's a system that blackmail you of excluding from UEFA competitions for 5years unless you leave SL? in Italy we'd say MAFIA.

UEFA needs to go. Sooner rather than later. It will happen it's just a matter of when.

 

[JagUTD]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Juventus apparently going to withdraw.

Wondered where Jimmy Carr had gone

 

[RedPed]

So just Barcelona and Real Madrid left in it then?

Should make for an interesting competition!

10 El Clasicos a season.

 

[Halftrack]

UEFA needs to go. Sooner rather than later. It will happen it's just a matter of when.

Yeah, but it probably shouldn't be replaced with a cadre of equally morally and financially corrupt clubs.

 

[Prodigal7]

The super league is impossible without PL clubs and the UK gov have said they will legislate against it, making it impossible for UK teams to participate. There won’t be a super league, Real and Barca need to accept that.

 

[GatoLoco]

The super league is impossible without PL clubs and the UK gov have said they will legislate against it, making it impossible for UK teams to participate. There won’t be a super league, Real and Barca need to accept that.

Or maybe there will be one in Arabia Saudi

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Bosnian_fan]

First this looks bullshit.

I mean even the other teams that "left" formally are still there as they signed a contract and leaving on your own means paying a hefty sum for conctractual breach.
So all the others teams left simply by saying "oh we're withdrawing" but actually didn't do shit so it was just to appease their govt and UEFA but in facts....

So yeah why Juventus would be the only team officialy withdrawing from SL which means paying 100m fine? instead of just saying "oh we're leaving" like the rest did?

Also if it's true... Wow what's a system that blackmail you of excluding from UEFA competitions for 5years unless you leave SL? in Italy we'd say MAFIA.

UEFA needs to go. Sooner rather than later. It will happen it's just a matter of when.

You seem unaware that extreme inequality that is obvious around continent is exactly what awaits your club if UEFA ever gives in and lets you have Superleague.

Or let me rephrase. Structuring of European competitions the way they were structured after collapse of communism has directly contributed to concentracion of immense wealth and quality in 30 or so clubs who are now attempting breakaway and formation of their own league.

But that is not where the process would stop, because capitalism has a tendency to push towards monopolisation. And when you incorporate capitalistic values in football, which has already been the case, trying to create what is basically footballing NBA and without understanding the difference in context, you will almost certainly create platform for big 30 clubs to become big ten in ten years, then big five ten more years down the line, until it becomes big two. Juventus may be one of the big two, but also has much higher chances of becoming important to European football as, say, Sassuolo is important to Italian.

I'd vouch for your big clubs breakaway league immediately if national leagues would ban your clubs from participating. Even if they would be hit hard financially in the beginning, I really believe that given enough time, they'd create new big clubs, history, tradition and rivalries. Football is so much bigger than any individual, any club or group of clubs for that matter, that I'd really like for these saviors of European football to finally walk away and save it.

 

[Krakenzero]

Also if it's true... Wow what's a system that blackmail you of excluding from UEFA competitions for 5years unless you leave SL? in Italy we'd say MAFIA.

UEFA needs to go. Sooner rather than later. It will happen it's just a matter of when.

More than Mafia, I'd say is the classic "having the cake/eating the cake" connundrum.

Nothing stops any club from leaving the UEFA/FIFA system. They would have to look for players and clubs outside that system to play though. IMO I wouldn't change our current "pay to win"-ish system for a "pay to even sit at the table" one.

 

[wangyu]

@Bosnian_fan

Has the NBA went from 30 big clubs to 10 big clubs yet? Honest question I know nothing about basketball.

Purely from an entertainment perspective I find the idea of a super league interesting. Whatever it is something will happen down the line because now we have 1 or 2 team monopolizing the national leagues. This seems unattainable , if nothing happens people and tv Ill loose interest in the sport?

 

[Bosnian_fan]

@Bosnian_fan

Has the NBA went from 30 big clubs to 10 big clubs yet? Honest question I know nothing about basketball.

Purely from an entertainment perspective I find the idea of a super league interesting. Whatever it is something will happen down the line because now we have 1 or 2 team monopolizing the national leagues. This seems unattainable , if nothing happens people and tv Ill loose interest in the sport?

NBA hasn't, because it has a system in place that at least at theoretical level makes it an even playing field. Draft, salary caps etc. On the other hand, European football doesn't have such protective measures.

NBA franchises are not in any way like European clubs, their model is business first. Franchises move cities regularly without backlash from fans, change names, crests etc. They were built that way from start.

European football is completely different, and I'm not even trying to romanticize this. There are hundreds and possibly thousands of clubs with serious fanbases and rich history and tradition, who have, at least in theory, a chance to compete for the biggest titles if they achieve results on field.

Now, after they have been reduced in past 30 years to almost nothing by UEFA's unwillingness to stomp on elite's tail, proposition by Real Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus is to feck them all up completely just so that their position at the top of the food chain would become unquestionable.

Imagine for example Ajax supporting the idea of the very same clubs who have profited the most from its demise due to Bosman rule in nineties. I mean, I don't remember anyone crying back then about how European football and its values should be protected.

EDIT: As for the second part of your question, I disagree. Because, as I have pointed before Superleague will inevitably lead to the concentration of wealth and quality in top five or so clubs, and as more time passes, there will be less competitors, which will prompt the idea to further reduce the Superleague down to 10 clubs for example. Because if there is say Tottenham playing in that league and always being one of the worst sides, than eventually rest of the league will try to get rid of them. Football should find other ways to promote competitiveness over the whole continent. For us in countries whose clubs and leagues aren't too strong, it is becoming more and more boring without our clubs participating. And Superleague isn't going to change that, it will only entrench the sense that we are being left behind and let down by UEFA or whoever runs these competitions.

 

[caid]

NBA hasn't, because it has a system in place that at least at theoretical level makes it an even playing field. Draft, salary caps etc. On the other hand, European football doesn't have such protective measures.

NBA franchises are not in any way like European clubs, their model is business first. Franchises move cities regularly without backlash from fans, change names, crests etc. They were built that way from start.

European football is completely different, and I'm not even trying to romanticize this. There are hundreds and possibly thousands of clubs with serious fanbases and rich history and tradition, who have, at least in theory, a chance to compete for the biggest titles if they achieve results on field.

Now, after they have been reduced in past 30 years to almost nothing by UEFA's unwillingness to stomp on elite's tail, proposition by Real Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus is to feck them all up completely just so that their position at the top of the food chain would become unquestionable.

Imagine for example Ajax supporting the idea of the very same clubs who have profited the most from its demise due to Bosman rule in nineties. I mean, I don't remember anyone crying back then about how European football and its values should be protected.

EDIT: As for the second part of your question, I disagree. Because, as I have pointed before Superleague will inevitably lead to the concentration of wealth and quality in top five or so clubs, and as more time passes, there will be less competitors, which will prompt the idea to further reduce the Superleague down to 10 clubs for example. Because if there is say Tottenham playing in that league and always being one of the worst sides, than eventually rest of the league will try to get rid of them. Football should find other ways to promote competitiveness over the whole continent. For us in countries whose clubs and leagues aren't too strong, it is becoming more and more boring without our clubs participating. And Superleague isn't going to change that, it will only entrench the sense that we are being left behind and let down by UEFA or whoever runs these competitions.

How would you go about addressing that?
I presume theres no situation where the czech league has the finances to compete against english teams and limiting czech players chance to maximise their earnings seems unreasonable even if it was expedient from a competitive point of view. Divide champions league earnings amongst the entire league of the teams who qualify? Force tv deals to be spread evenly amongst all teams in the league? Remove the prize money and use it wherever it'll have the most benefit or impact?
I have no faith in UEFA to come up with a solution so having some idea of how to go about leveling the playing field and something to campaign towards seems like a good start.

 

[MexicanCowboy]

The new swiss system Champions League is gonna be kind of a super league, with a lot more games between top sides.
I hope Laporta leaves soon too. I wouldn't want Barca to be part of a competition designed by Florentino.

 

[Gums]

So just Barcelona and Real Madrid left in it then?

Should make for an interesting competition!

To the tune of “I Got You Babe”.

(Verse 1)
Wake up in the morning, to the blare of Spanish flair,
On the radio it's playing, magic's in the air.
Football's grand fiesta, every single day,
Barcelona and Madrid, in a league where only they play.

(Chorus)
I Got You, Madrid, under the Spanish sun,
Passing, shooting, always on the run.
Barcelona, I got you too,
In our Super League, it's just us two.

(Verse 2)
Tango of the titans, under the burning sky,
Each matchday's a novel, as the footballs fly.
In the heart of Spain, where the passions ignite,
We’re dancing to the rhythm, of a Super League's night.

(Chorus)
I Got You, Barcelona, in the Catalonian glow,
Tiki-taka weaving, putting on a show.
Real Madrid, I got you too,
In our Super League, it's just us two.

(Bridge)
No others in our rhythm, in our endless game,
Every match a classic, in this eternal flame.
Barcelona, Real Madrid, like a romantic song,
In this Super League, where only we belong.

(Chorus)
I Got You, Madrid, in the Santiago's roar,
White shirts shimmering, legends of yore.
Barcelona, I got you too,
In our Super League, it's just us two.

(Outro)
When the sun sets down, and the stars begin to play,
We know we'll meet again, in our own Super League way.
Madrid, Barcelona, under the moon's soft gleam,
In our dreams of football, in our Super League dream.


Apologies for “slightly” mismatching syllable count and rhythm.

 

[Care_de_Bobo]

How would you go about addressing that?
I presume theres no situation where the czech league has the finances to compete against english teams and limiting czech players chance to maximise their earnings seems unreasonable even if it was expedient from a competitive point of view. Divide champions league earnings amongst the entire league of the teams who qualify? Force tv deals to be spread evenly amongst all teams in the league? Remove the prize money and use it wherever it'll have the most benefit or impact?
I have no faith in UEFA to come up with a solution so having some idea of how to go about leveling the playing field and something to campaign towards seems like a good start.

A simple solution would be to give England, Spain and the other big leagues fewer CL spots and more to the smaller leagues. It seems a little ridiculous that the likes of Liverpool managed to win two CL trophies and make a further two finals despite not winning their own league for 30 years straight. Spurs making a final just highlighted the problem even further.

These English clubs are there because they earn more money thanks to constant European involvement and a lucrative PL TV deal, not because they're better run or somehow more worthy competitors. Soon it will be 5 PL clubs in the CL just to dilute it even further.

At least rebrand it, having a competition called the 'Champions' League with a team like Spurs potentially competing in it just seems like a cruel joke at this point, only the joke isn't on Spurs for a change rather the teams from Central and Eastern Europe who actually do win something once in a while.

 

[Bosnian_fan]

How would you go about addressing that?
I presume theres no situation where the czech league has the finances to compete against english teams and limiting czech players chance to maximise their earnings seems unreasonable even if it was expedient from a competitive point of view. Divide champions league earnings amongst the entire league of the teams who qualify? Force tv deals to be spread evenly amongst all teams in the league? Remove the prize money and use it wherever it'll have the most benefit or impact?
I have no faith in UEFA to come up with a solution so having some idea of how to go about leveling the playing field and something to campaign towards seems like a good start.

Well, maybe a bit too late to start adressing now, because it's been over thirty years of pandering to big leagues. Anyway, UEFA is only making changes that further the gap, with its Conference League a step in cementing the current status.

 

[Arios]

A simple solution would be to give England, Spain and the other big leagues fewer CL spots and more to the smaller leagues. It seems a little ridiculous that the likes of Liverpool managed to win two CL trophies and make a further two finals despite not winning their own league for 30 years straight. Spurs making a final just highlighted the problem even further.

These English clubs are there because they earn more money thanks to constant European involvement and a lucrative PL TV deal, not because they're better run or somehow more worthy competitors. Soon it will be 5 PL clubs in the CL just to dilute it even further.

At least rebrand it, having a competition called the 'Champions' League with a team like Spurs potentially competing in it just seems like a cruel joke at this point, only the joke isn't on Spurs for a change rather the teams from Central and Eastern Europe who actually do win something once in a while.

so the solution is not going forward but going backward.

Bring CL back to what it was (not saying only winners of each league) but Winner and runner up for any country.
No demotions to Europa League but let 3rd-4th places of each EU league get in.
Conference League with 5th and 6th of each leagues

Remove all rules about teams not being able to meet each others cause of countries,groups and so on. Just draw them and that's it.

The biggest problem is the economical divide between the current UEFA Cups.
CL gives you 100 x year
EL gives you 25-30 x year
cL gives you even less like what? 10-15?

an idea would be:

150 / 3
CL 50
EL 50
cL 50

Then the biggest problem to EU football would be the difference in tv money for each league.

We have PL getting 5-7b/year
Liga 2,5b
Bundes 1.8b
Serie A/ Ligue 1 1.2b

While the rest is dramatically lower than that.
They have to find a way to equalize money distribution a bit.
Now with Brexit is unlikely if not my proposition would be that all the money from tv deals are handled by 1 EU entity that shares them equally to each national league.
So the only unquestionable differences would be ticketing and marketing from individual teams.

But at least things would be much more equals between all.


Then they should tackle private owners overspending compared to their teams earnings.
a team with a revenue of 100 can't spend 250 because the owener can cover the losses.
Financial Fair Play spectacularly failed to do so. It also just lead to keep the status quo.

There is much to do and I'm not even sure they're willing to do so cause few teams has too much to lose.

That's why a SL organize by clubs that decide the rules like NBA would be better than UEFA imo.
Instead of Just 1 organize 2 and makes rules like "Best 2 performing teams 2nd SL will get promoted"
So still make promotions and demotions but not yearly so owners can plan.

 

[GatoLoco]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[BuzzKillington]

Juve to exit super league

Who on earth decided that it would be a good idea to put the clause in the contract to let Barca & Madrid be the arbiters on whether you could leave or not.

 

[Krakenzero]

Well, I hope this puts an end to the initiative.

Honestly those clubs would be in a better position if they inffluence UEFA from the inside via their federations (that they more or less control, specially in Spain), putting some stooges at the top, and then gradually change the UCL to what they want it to be. Not that this would be good for the sport as a whole, it just seems like a wiser course of action.

 

[Bosnian_fan]

Well, I hope this puts an end to the initiative.

Honestly those clubs would be in a better position if they inffluence UEFA from the inside via their federations (that they more or less control, specially in Spain), putting some stooges at the top, and then gradually change the UCL to what they want it to be. Not that this would be good for the sport as a whole, it just seems like a wiser course of action.

That's exactly what they have been doing ever since Champions League has replaced European Cup. From next season on, there is a further expansion for clubs from top five leagues, which in turn will widen the gap between these leagues and rest of the continent further.

At this point, Superleague would actually be good for football as a whole, provided clubs that form it are barred from entering both their national leagues and European competitions that would be organised by rest of the continent.