European Super League

[saivet]

The 3 clubs that didn't abandoned the idea now say that they would organize a super league with no fix members and open to anyone.

Would that be acceptable and/or appealing? Would you think that the fans would cause such a stir if that would be done from the beginning?

https://sportsfinding.com/a-super-league-without-privileges/113171/

Not really. It doesn't sound any more interesting than the CL. Not clear on the qualification either. Waste of time imo.

 

[4bars]

Not really. It doesn't sound any more interesting than the CL. Not clear on the qualification either. Waste of time imo.

Well, it sounds interesting than UEFA FIFA not being part of the business as they bring nothing to the table

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Well, it sounds interesting than UEFA FIFA not being part of the business as they bring nothing to the table

They take a fair chunk ( ~ 25%) of the broadcasting rights, but in return they also provide a moderating influence in favour of smaller clubs and federations. Under the current format, each club that reach the groupstage is guaranteed 15m Euro, and gate receipt for the 3 home matches+ more money for winning/drawing matches. That's a significant chunk of the annual budget for clubs not in the top 4 FAs (or even some already in them). And then with their ~ 800m cut, UEFA execs will pocket the lion share of that, but some will also go into developmental projects that benefit football on the continent.

Now with this Super League, assuming that they get the same money for broadcasting rights (which I suspect wouldnt be the case, as they will demand more money since in theory there are no 'boring' matches), and with only 20 teams participating, you are talking about ~ 200m cut per club if equitably divided, annually. For context, that's double the money Chelsea got as Champions last year, and that amount of money will essentially ensure that the 20 clubs who participate in the inaugural season will keep their place for the foreseeable future, with that competitive advantage over their domestic opponents, bar disastrous mismanagement or state funded clubs upsetting the balance. It would create a new football oligarchy that is ten times worse than the current Champions League.

 

[saivet]

Well, it sounds interesting than UEFA FIFA not being part of the business as they bring nothing to the table

But what is the Super League bringing apart from more money in the pockets for clubs? The initial proposal was ridiculous but it was at least different, this just sounds like a plan to boot out UEFA in order to fill their pockets rather than bringing anything to the table. They were saying that football is dying, if football is dying who does this help?

 

[Born2Lose]

We'll never know but would have been interesting to see if the Saudi's had bought Newcastle if the ESL had gone through.

 

[4bars]

They take a fair chunk ( ~ 25%) of the broadcasting rights, but in return they also provide a moderating influence in favour of smaller clubs and federations. Under the current format, each club that reach the groupstage is guaranteed 15m Euro, and gate receipt for the 3 home matches+ more money for winning/drawing matches. That's a significant chunk of the annual budget for clubs not in the top 4 FAs (or even some already in them). And then with their ~ 800m cut, UEFA execs will pocket the lion share of that, but some will also go into developmental projects that benefit football on the continent.

Now with this Super League, assuming that they get the same money for broadcasting rights (which I suspect wouldnt be the case, as they will demand more money since in theory there are no 'boring' matches), and with only 20 teams participating, you are talking about ~ 200m cut per club if equitably divided, annually. For context, that's double the money Chelsea got as Champions last year, and that amount of money will essentially ensure that the 20 clubs who participate in the inaugural season will keep their place for the foreseeable future, with that competitive advantage over their domestic opponents, bar disastrous mismanagement or state funded clubs upsetting the balance. It would create a new football oligarchy that is ten times worse than the current Champions League.

I get what I mean, yes. Open to everyone would not be enough. It would need to be followed by a redistribution of the money to the less rich clubs. Lets say of those extra ( lets say 2000 of the extra that you assumed, plus 500 more of the UEFA) 50% is redistributed to the ones below, maybe? As much as the top clubs will earn much more, what they will do with the extra money? get the best players that they already have? Best technicians and technology that already have? While the ones below could invest in infrastructure that they will never have.

If you say that the UEFA adds that the only extra value of protecting the smaller clubs and federations in exchange of filling so much their pockets, I rather prefer that they are cut off. But it should go with an agreement that money would be redistributedly fairly. Also FIFA and UEFA would have no power on for example to do a world cup each 2 years or a world cup in Qatar in winter

I would never support a ESL with the initial conditions. A closed league would be the death of national and regional football, but I despite UEFA/FIFA and if the ESL would morph to something acceptable cutting them out, would be better. Even the current format without them with the same distribution

 

[::sonny::]

We'll never know but would have been interesting to see if the Saudi's had bought Newcastle if the ESL had gone through.

Would be interesting if Newcastle can’t join this hypothetical super league

 

[BlackShark_80]

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New Super League Plans would involve the original top tier 'Super League' of 20 teams, with two 20-team feeder leagues immediately sitting below it. Then, there will a third tier involving four more leagues of 20 teams. That means an astonishing total of 140 clubs would be included.

 

[Cloud7]

I get what I mean, yes. Open to everyone would not be enough. It would need to be followed by a redistribution of the money to the less rich clubs. Lets say of those extra ( lets say 2000 of the extra that you assumed, plus 500 more of the UEFA) 50% is redistributed to the ones below, maybe? As much as the top clubs will earn much more, what they will do with the extra money? get the best players that they already have? Best technicians and technology that already have? While the ones below could invest in infrastructure that they will never have.

If you say that the UEFA adds that the only extra value of protecting the smaller clubs and federations in exchange of filling so much their pockets, I rather prefer that they are cut off. But it should go with an agreement that money would be redistributedly fairly. Also FIFA and UEFA would have no power on for example to do a world cup each 2 years or a world cup in Qatar in winter

I would never support a ESL with the initial conditions. A closed league would be the death of national and regional football, but I despite UEFA/FIFA and if the ESL would morph to something acceptable cutting them out, would be better. Even the current format without them with the same distribution

Perez, Woody, Kroenke and friends will have absolutely no intentions of distributing money fairly to benefit smaller clubs. This whole ESL scheme is about making more money for them.

 

[4bars]

Perez, Woody, Kroenke and friends will have absolutely no intentions of distributing money fairly to benefit smaller clubs. This whole ESL scheme is about making more money for them.

I agree. thats why the ESL started how it did, closed. But if they ever want to succeed with a ESL, they will need to include this money distribution or will never happen

 

[Hugh Jass]

The Champions League will have to let more English teams in to the CL. You have us, Pool, City, Chelsea and now Newcastle. Then you have Spurs and Arsenal as well.

 

[redshaw]

Uefa might have to include certain teams on some pedigree basis. Expanding just places across the board means taking a lot from Europa and thus this new conference.

 

[Sviken]

This is all down to UEFA and allowing nation states to buy clubs at whim. Can't say I'd feel sad when this organization is told to get fecked. Nevertheless, I'm not happy about the Super League. Fans lose either way, but UEFA did this to themselves and maybe this thing will salvage something of the sport, no matter how little.

 

[BlackShark_80]

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[BlackShark_80]

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[BlackShark_80]

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[BlackShark_80]

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[GatoLoco]

Why does he speak using "will" instead of "would"?

 

[redshaw]

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Is it getting bad in Spain?

Barcelona had just 37k at the Nou Camp recently. Sure they've slipped down a bit but they've had a huge amount of success in recent times, United haven't won a major trophy since 2013, been in the lower half of the league and finished out the top 4 half the time yet still fill OT. Every time I catch a bit of a La Liga match the stadiums are half empty.

 

[pascell]

Is it getting bad in Spain?

Barcelona had just 37k at the Nou Camp recently. Sure they've slipped down a bit but they've had a huge amount of success in recent times, United haven't won a major trophy since 2013, been in the lower half of the league and finished out the top 4 half the time yet still fill OT. Every time I catch a bit of a La Liga match the stadiums are half empty.

Is that not due to restrictions because of covid?

 

[TheLiverBird]

Is it getting bad in Spain?

Barcelona had just 37k at the Nou Camp recently. Sure they've slipped down a bit but they've had a huge amount of success in recent times, United haven't won a major trophy since 2013, been in the lower half of the league and finished out the top 4 half the time yet still fill OT. Every time I catch a bit of a La Liga match the stadiums are half empty.

Fans of the Spanish giants are an odd bunch though.

 

[MongeySpangle]

The delusion and elitism of this man never ceases to amaze me. A complete narcissist.

 

[::sonny::]

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[Idxomer]

Perez is right.

 

[vanrooney]

perez is 100% right - uefa is a shithole. super league with sensefull ffp rules and no sugar daddys would be great. just open it for the football pyramid and feck the cl

 

[GhastlyHun]

Drain the Swamp! -Florentino Perez

Would be just as credible a slogan as it was with Trump.

 

[Cassidy]

Perez is right.

He is

 

[Cassidy]

Why does he speak using "will" instead of "would"?

Because its still happening

 

[GeorgieBoy]

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Why does Neville think that's funny?!

 

[Tom Cato]

Is it getting bad in Spain?

Barcelona had just 37k at the Nou Camp recently. Sure they've slipped down a bit but they've had a huge amount of success in recent times, United haven't won a major trophy since 2013, been in the lower half of the league and finished out the top 4 half the time yet still fill OT. Every time I catch a bit of a La Liga match the stadiums are half empty.

Football is so closely tied to the British national identity.

The Queen, Football, tea. In that order.

Football is important in Spain, but not to the point where its identity, and moreover Spain has had a lot of economic challenges the past decade that may substract a lot of fans from attending matches in droves. La Liga has also become a less interesting product with the decline of Barcelona and the abdication of CR7 and Messi. There are no guiding stars currently that will bring all the attention back to La Liga.

 

[giorno]

Is it getting bad in Spain?

Barcelona had just 37k at the Nou Camp recently. Sure they've slipped down a bit but they've had a huge amount of success in recent times, United haven't won a major trophy since 2013, been in the lower half of the league and finished out the top 4 half the time yet still fill OT. Every time I catch a bit of a La Liga match the stadiums are half empty.

That's down to COVID restrictions. But to answer the question: it's not getting bad, it *is* bad for everyone - except real madrid, that is. Real Madrid are in better financial health than anybody not owned by an oil state funnily enough...

 

[Barnslig]

Why does Neville think that's funny?!

Cause Barcelona is/was taking huge amounts of money from Spain, I assume?

 

[Nanook]

I think in the future we might see a Super League without English clubs.

Domestic TV rights

Premier League - £1.7bn
Bundesliga - £900m
La Liga - £850m
Serie A - £800m
Ligue 1 - £500m

Foreign TV rights

Premier League - £1.7bn
La Liga - £800m
Bundesliga - £170m
Serie A - £170m
Ligue 1 - £70m

La Liga has done a good job at growing its TV rights around the world but the other leagues are getting left behind. TV rights have actually declined in Serie A and the Bundesliga.

The latest NBC deal the PL signed in the US is worth almost as much as Serie A and the Bundesliga’s overseas rights combined.

With the huge economic growth in Asia it’s not unthinkable that in the future the PL could be making billions per year from the Asian rights alone.

 

[Sviken]

Super League might be a good idea, if implemented right. There's no future in football with state owned clubs.

 

[Bosnian_fan]

Super League might be a good idea, if implemented right. There's no future in football with state owned clubs.

You really think state owned clubs are the biggest problem for future of football? That may be the case for just a handfull of elite clubs, which Manchester United luckily belongs to.

For rest of us from smaller countries, football was killed the day UEFA decided to allow certain countries to have far more clubs than others in their competitions. Final nail was laid in coffin with Bosman ruling.

Look at how glorious Ajax from 90s was "killed".

https://www.besoccer.com/new/twenty...e-bosman-ruling-which-changed-football-840140

To most of us fans around the Europe, football is long dead already. Sarajevo is my local club which I like more than United. Back in 1967/1968 season, when two clubs met, United did win but had to negotiate hell of a ride. If we were to play right now, and if United really pushed hard, they could score 30 goals over two games if they wanted to.

State owned clubs may destroy the way football is run now, but it doesn't mean things are good at the moment. Reasons for the states being allowed to enter the market and to own clubs is the same reason that lead football to the current state.

And another thing. You really think that Superleague led by Perez and Agnelli will stop Salman from joining if he wants to? Of course they will welcome him and his money with open arms. Why are they forming Superleague other than to gain money?

 

[Kentonio]

For rest of us from smaller countries, football was killed the day UEFA decided to allow certain countries to have far more clubs than others in their competitions. Final nail was laid in coffin with Bosman ruling.

Bosman did change everything but its hard to argue it wasn't the right change. Can anyone really justify a system where a player could be out of contract and basically held hostage by their club when they don't want to be there?

 

[Cloud7]

I think in the future we might see a Super League without English clubs.

Domestic TV rights

Premier League - £1.7bn
Bundesliga - £900m
La Liga - £850m
Serie A - £800m
Ligue 1 - £500m

Foreign TV rights

Premier League - £1.7bn
La Liga - £800m
Bundesliga - £170m
Serie A - £170m
Ligue 1 - £70m

La Liga has done a good job at growing its TV rights around the world but the other leagues are getting left behind. TV rights have actually declined in Serie A and the Bundesliga.

The latest NBC deal the PL signed in the US is worth almost as much as Serie A and the Bundesliga’s overseas rights combined.

With the huge economic growth in Asia it’s not unthinkable that in the future the PL could be making billions per year from the Asian rights alone.

Bayern and the German teams will never be on board with the Super League because of the fan ownership model, and the fan culture over there seems like they would always reject it anyway. A Super League with La Liga and Serie A? Perez and Agnelli are more than welcome to that. Perez just keeps on revealing that all he cares about is Madrid having the biggest transfer dick. People are idiots if they think Perez actually cares about the future of football or indeed anything beyond Madrid.

 

[SuperiorXI]

Perez is such an arrogant prat

 

[Cloud7]

Perez is such an arrogant prat

He really is Real Madrid in human form

 

[Nanook]

Bayern and the German teams will never be on board with the Super League because of the fan ownership model, and the fan culture over there seems like they would always reject it anyway. A Super League with La Liga and Serie A? Perez and Agnelli are more than welcome to that. Perez just keeps on revealing that all he cares about is Madrid having the biggest transfer dick. People are idiots if they think Perez actually cares about the future of football or indeed anything beyond Madrid.

Bayern would join if it actually went ahead.