European Super League

[BlackShark_80]

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[SmallCaine]

You are right. However, this implies that these owners believe in two scenarios.
1. They will be able to attract enough new fan bases to compensate some of their losses.
Or
2. Everybody will start watching ESL whenever it starts and all these protest will vanish.
I do not think a group like JP Morgan would be involved in a new project without thorough market research.

I think owners severely under estimated the response to this. They might have anticipated fan back lash and may be uefa threats but I highly doubt they expected or have a response to uk parliament suddenly taking interest in ownership and running of football.


Perez has spouting a lot of bs. But having worked in finance my entire life I refuse to believe jp morgan have actually put up a single dime yet or that clubs have signed anything binding when nothing actually has firmly established yet. ESL doesn't have all its 15 members lined up yet let alone the additional 5 it seeks to bring on merit, then there's the national fa response and government response. JP Morgan will be the first ones who high tail out of this project while the Americans and perez are left facing the wrath.

 

[Gasolin]

I think owners severely under estimated the response to this. They might have anticipated fan back lash and may be uefa threats but I highly doubt they expected or have a response to uk parliament suddenly taking interest in ownership and running of football.


Perez has spouting a lot of bs. But having worked in finance my entire life I refuse to believe jp morgan have actually put up a single dime yet or that clubs have signed anything binding when nothing actually has firmly established yet. ESL doesn't have all its 15 members lined up yet let alone the additional 5 it seeks to bring on merit, then there's the national fa response and government response. JP Morgan will be the first ones who high tail out of this project while the Americans and perez are left facing the wrath.

Yeah I hope they see more and more obstacles. Would be great if JPM starts catching that this is not going to be that successful without public support but so far, they seem to be winning the battle.

 

[Shipperley]

As long as we don't get kicked out of the PL I think in time things will be alright, no better than that, the PL will be watered down and not feel the same competition when 6 of the main teams, the most hyped teams, will simply not take it as seriously anymore.

I struggle to see how with the SL unless it joins forces with UEFA (not happening) football as we know it is the same again. I just hope in time things work out.

Which is exactly why the 14 need to give these 6 a final ultimatum or vote them out, fully backed by UEFA enforcing European and international bans, and supporters of the big six opposing this to the hilt. Things will never be alright for the vast majority of clubs in this country or our domestic competition.

What I’m curious about is how much the 6 still owe to other clubs in transfer fees tied to PL, European and International appearances. If they are booted out of these competitions based on a rule breach and are unable to meet transfer obligations then I can see lawsuits in their droves coming from the other clubs. A hard stop on all major revenue streams and hundreds of millions in liabilities being pushed through the courts is going to make the owners think again.

Likewise player contracts with clauses tied to PL, European and International appearances, will the top 6 clubs have to renegotiate every contract? Where does that leave them?

What about sponsorship contracts if these clubs get booted? Not only at club but also player level. If Harry Kane won’t be at the Euros, what do Nike do?

I still think this can be stopped if everyone stands firm.

 

[Gasolin]

Which is exactly why the 14 need to give these 6 a final ultimatum or vote them out, fully backed by UEFA enforcing European and international bans, and supporters of the big six opposing this to the hilt. Things will never be alright for the vast majority of clubs in this country or our domestic competition.

What I’m curious about is how much the 6 still owe to other clubs in transfer fees tied to PL, European and International appearances. If they are booted out of these competitions based on a rule breach and are unable to meet transfer obligations then I can see lawsuits in their droves coming from the other clubs. Likewise player contracts with clauses tied to PL, European and International appearances, will the top 6 clubs have to renegotiate every contract? Where does that leave them?

I still think this can be stopped if everyone stands firm.

I thought all players contracts were under the FIFA framework and if there is a ban at all level, maybe players can leave for free, killing the assets of those clubs. Where would they go is a big question though. They may be forced to resign a contract with most of the clubs?

For me, this is a legal mess.

 

[Kingantti1874]

That Perez interview was something else. How about spending within your means! Dont pay players £500k per week if you can afford it and don’t buy Haaland for £100m if you don’t have it.

 

[Ixion]

We're trying to save football* from kids and their X-Boxes!



*Just specifically these 12 clubs who are more hard up for cash than the rest though

 

[balaks]

If you are knocked out of CL by March it means you are KOed from QF not from the group stage like this.

If you are KOed from the group in CL you are basically out from the competition in November or December and have to wait till next September to start the next campaign if you actually manage to qualify to it anyway.

You are guaranteed only 6 games in CL, the rest if you manage to get to KO. You are guaranteed 18 freaking games in SL before the playoff starts. You won't wait long to get your new chance if you finish 10th out of 10 in the group.

They are really losing nothing. There are no stacks to worry about. It's a pretty safe competition for everyone involved : many games, ton of money and guaranteed spot.

Will a club like Tottenham care about not winning it? What's their chance to do it? Will they lose anything? No, they are winners from participating in it even though they know fully well they will never manage to defeat all of these to win it.

It's almost like Spurs getting to a champions League final less than 2 years ago didn't happen for you isn't it. I absolutely hate this SL idea but to say Spurs would never be able to win it is bollocks, especially with the money we would get.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Haaland to Arsenal then? I assume they’ll get first pick in the draft?

 

[Andycoleno9]

.
So we are the leaders of English separatists. Perez is Palpatine, Glazer is Dooku and Ed is general Grievous.

Geeks will understand

 

[AneRu]

Score points and create a diplomatic incident? There's limits to what they're willing to do. Nationalisation only occurs when public utilities are at stake or a tyrant comes to power.

Not nationalization but a forced divestment, I don't think the millions of fans will have any problems buying up controlling stakes from the Glazers even if it means we were buying one share each. These clubs are cultural icons that were created by several generations and represent the soul of these communities so there is public interest in ensuring that they are owned by the same communities that wish the best for them.

Diplomatic incident and all but do we really think that in this dangerous world with a resurgent China and Russia on its tails the Biden Administration will risk its relationships with the UK and the EU over the bruised ego of a few minor billionaires? The Glazers and Kroenke are insignificant in as far as wealth in America is concerned and they don't even support the party in power in the US. Johnson should use this incident to feck them over.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

I hope the fourteen other clubs signal their intent to remove the selfish six today.

 

[Mike Smalling]

Regarding the opportunity to ban players from the World Cup and Euros, it seems like Perez is confident that UEFA and FIFA can't do that. However, wouldn't the ESL be powerless if each national football association decided on it? Like if the FA told Southgate that he couldn't pick players from ESL clubs. Maybe it would be too big of a decision for each of the FAs and create too much controversy, but can't see how the ESL could really get involved.

 

[Cardboard elk]

If Englands government made new laws for football, like that 50+1 rule like in Germany, and a new English League ( copy of the old except for the Super League teams) was set up where no club could join without having achieved the 50+1, then the clubs with Super League could be held responsible AND owners prevented from doing shit like this.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I hope the fourteen other clubs signal their intent to remove the selfish six today.

Really? A nuclear option like that or UEFA going on about banning players from the Euros isn't going to help. What's needed are cool heads to block this by legal means rather than people in authority running around like their pants are on fire.

 

[Cassidy]

Regarding the opportunity to ban players from the World Cup and Euros, it seems like Perez is confident that UEFA and FIFA can't do that. However, wouldn't the ESL be powerless if each national football association decided on it? Like if the FA told Southgate that he couldn't pick players from ESL clubs. Maybe it would be too big of a decision for each of the FAs and create too much controversy, but can't see how the ESL could really get involved.

It more than likely would not be legal. Since both the clubs and the players have not broken any rules.

 

[JPRouve]

The reason of European football at top level being such a huge business is because of its worldwide appeal. No fans from other part of world would fanzy to watch Marseille vs Wolfsburg, there would only be local fans watching. Also, since the big TV money and sponsors etc would no longer be there, these clubs would not be able to generate big income to attract big players. The only way to survive is to develop their own youth and sell them at higher price to those from super league. Sadly, this will be the future of those clubs.

Yeah but I'm not thinking about it as a business but as what it used to be before the commercialization of football. The super league could see a comeback of the pre 90s patronage system outside of it and the system.

 

[RobinLFC]

Really? A nuclear option like that or UEFA going on about banning players from the Euros isn't going to help. What's needed are cool heads to block this by legal means rather than people in authority running around like their pants are on fire.

It needs to be a bit of both. If the UEFA can legally back up its claim that it can (and will) ban ESL players from the Euros, that's a good starting point. I'd assume (or hope) they didn't just panic react like that yesterday without checking first that it's actually possible.

 

[el3mel]

It's almost like Spurs getting to a champions League final less than 2 years ago didn't happen for you isn't it. I absolutely hate this SL idea but to say Spurs would never be able to win it is bollocks, especially with the money we would get.

The other clubs would get similar amount of money too. The gap between you and Real Madrid isn't going to magically decrease it's not like you are the only who is going to spend money.

Your CL run was great and all but your Knockout opponents were BVB, City and Ajax, only one of these you will face in SL.

 

[elmo]

I hope the fourteen other clubs signal their intent to remove the selfish six today.

Do that and you'll have a lawsuit incoming from the broadcasters because the league is fecked without the top clubs.

 

[pocco]

I hope the fourteen other clubs signal their intent to remove the selfish six today.

Same. I've felt more and more disconnected from football over the years and this is the final straw for me. I just want to sit back and watch it fall apart for some reason.

The United we see today under Woodward and Glazers, just isnt the same as the club I grew up watching. I'm not talking trophies. Just the principles of Fergie used to be set in stone. They demanded respect and he brought a certain level of honour and class to the club. Now that has all been thrown out of the window.

I have now accepted that the club I love is gone, for now at least. I hope they make an example of us and hopefully it's a step towards the Glazers and Woodward fecking off and the club getting back to what we once were.

 

[Cassidy]

The other clubs would get similar amount of money too. The gap between you and Real Madrid isn't going to magically decrease it's not like you are the only who is going to spend money.

Your CL run was great and all but your Knockout opponents were BVB, City and Ajax, only one of these you will face in SL.

The gap will close as I imagine all the clubs will seriously beef their squads and pillage other teams (outside of the group)

 

[pratyush_utd]

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[pratyush_utd]

I hope the fourteen other clubs signal their intent to remove the selfish six today.

That would serve no one. Crystal Palace owner was on SKY and the moment this was brought up, he immediately mentioned there is no way that will happen.

 

[el3mel]

The gap will close as I imagine all the clubs will seriously beef their squads and pillage other teams (outside of the group)

Yes, Spurs will improve as a team, but the 11 clubs will also do the same that's all.

 

[hubbuh]

Calm down with the outrage. People are allowed to have different views. Even Rooney said he wants to see full information and has given football more than most.

What more information could anyone possibly need? It's all there in black and white. 15 'founding members' that can't be relegated, huge money the driving force behind it in JP Morgan with the likes of Facebook, Amazon and Disney competing for viewing rights, a centralisation of resources and players, an exclusive 'super league' that takes away any and all purpose from the domestic leagues. There's nothing more that needs to be seen or announced, we can't sit around idly. It needs to be met with complete opposition right now to stop it dead in its tracks.

Rooney is obviously just being diplomatic but even he said the English football pyramid needs to be protected. This is an affront to that.

 

[McGrathsipan]

Do that and you'll have a lawsuit incoming from the broadcasters because the league is fecked without the top clubs.

The top clubs have just said feck off to the league. They can be sued too.

The remaing clubs should refuse to play the cnut 6.

 

[Cassidy]

Yes, Spurs will improve as a team, but the 11 clubs will also do the same that's all.

And overtime I think you’ll see it even out

 

[ti vu]

It's almost like Spurs getting to a champions League final less than 2 years ago didn't happen for you isn't it. I absolutely hate this SL idea but to say Spurs would never be able to win it is bollocks, especially with the money we would get.

I think the context is about the ambition once ESL is a thing.

Levy created a miss chance that season for Spurs that looks like Spurs is regretting blowing that lifetime chance, even till this day. Levy was happy with the previous season objective thus going into new season with no signings.
A few quality signing then would have helped Spurs pulling over the line. This kickstarted the fall out with Poch.

So now put Levy in similar comfortable situation in ESL, he would have no motivation to invest in the team. Sure there is always a chance to win as long as you're in the competition. However, relying on the stars aligning without investing is gonna take long when there are many team enjoying same privilege but better motivated.

As for the money, Spurs has the stadium to pay for. The ESL money may sound big sum, but you have to take into account that you're competing against teams getting more out of the same privilege. Salary cap based on revenue would still mean Spurs is still at the bottom in term of wage offering. The big guys of the founders need to Spurs to make up the initial number, but eventually without doubt they would get more teams in. Without the legacy glamor to generate much more money, Spurs has no advantage over the newly invited clubs with said ESL money.

 

[sparx99]

I was thinking this but let’s say any of the big 6 finish the season first or second, or get to the play offs for promotion to the PL, they won’t be allowed back in so what would happen, the runner up (who was not a big 6 pl team) gets it instead? The big 6 teams just linger around in the championship for years to come? Find out next on Dragonball Z!

Wouldn’t the point be to reinstate the EFL as the top division and effectively freeze out the PL 14. I know where the TV money would go if that was the case.

 

[Cassidy]

I think the context is about the ambition once ESL is a thing.

Levy created a miss chance that season for Spurs that looks like Spurs is regretting blowing that lifetime chance, even till this day. Levy was happy with the previous season objective thus going into new season with no signings.
A few quality signing then would have helped Spurs pulling over the line.
This kickstarted the fall out with Poch.

So now put Levy in similar comfortable situation in ESL, he would have no motivation to invest in the team. Sure there is always a chance to win as long as you're in the competition. However, relying on the stars aligning without investing is gonna take long when there are many team enjoying same privilege but better motivated.

As for the money, Spurs has the stadium to pay for. The ESL money may sound big sum, but you have to take into account that you're competing against teams getting more out of the same privilege. Salary cap based on revenue would still mean Spurs is still at the bottom in term of wage offering. The big guys of the founders need to Spurs to make up the initial number, but eventually without doubt they would get more teams in. Without the legacy glamor to generate much more money, Spurs has no advantage over the newly invited clubs with said ESL money.

Are you ignoring the fact Spurs couldnt spend due to the Stadium

 

[McGrathsipan]

Same. I've felt more and more disconnected from football over the years and this is the final straw for me. I just want to sit back and watch it fall apart for some reason.

The United we see today under Woodward and Glazers, just isnt the same as the club I grew up watching. I'm not talking trophies. Just the principles of Fergie used to be set in stone. They demanded respect and he brought a certain level of honour and class to the club. Now that has all been thrown out of the window.

I have now accepted that the club I love is gone, for now at least. I hope they make an example of us and hopefully it's a step towards the Glazers and Woodward fecking off and the club getting back to what we once were.

The club is gone years ago. Its a business.
I'm in the same boat as you man . I'm sad.
I want no part of it and I'll never put a penny towards it. Not one penny.

 

[pratyush_utd]

I hate bloody English media. United were big club because of their shrewd investment and great academy which funded our success. Chelsea got russian oligarchs and City got Abu Dhabi natural resource to pay for their success but apparently they are the saviour of English game. It's because of them, this has happened. How thick you have to be to not understand that. They keep saying competition but in what world competition is fair when you have to compete with bottomless pit of money?

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[Bestie07]

Regarding the opportunity to ban players from the World Cup and Euros, it seems like Perez is confident that UEFA and FIFA can't do that. However, wouldn't the ESL be powerless if each national football association decided on it? Like if the FA told Southgate that he couldn't pick players from ESL clubs. Maybe it would be too big of a decision for each of the FAs and create too much controversy, but can't see how the ESL could really get involved.

Football Associations of most nations participating in the World Cup won't care about the Super League and send their strongest teams. Only a select few nations will be severely weakening their chances.

 

[el3mel]

And overtime I think you’ll see it even out

Well, maybe, they organize the transfers so that they distribute the good players on all teams equally like the draft system from NBA, otherwise I think the likes of Madrid will always be preferred for the players more than Spurs or even Arsenal.

 

[ti vu]

Are you ignoring the fact Spurs couldnt spend due to the Stadium

Explain what they did with Lo Celso, Ndombele, Sessegnon, and Mourinho project following that unexpected CL finalist season?

 

[Cassidy]

Well, maybe, they organize the transfers so that they distribute the good players on all teams equally like the draft system from NBA, otherwise I think the likes of Madrid will always be preferred for the players more than Spurs or even Arsenal.

Yes but they cant buy everyone and we have already seen what happens when others have money too

 

[Jacob]

I'm all for this because I want to see football crash and burn. I'm in it for the drama.

 

[Cassidy]

Explain what they did with Lo Celso, Ndombele, Sessegnon, and Mourinho project following that unexpected CL finalist season?

They completed the stadium and thus knew the had funds quite obviously. The UCL also boosted their funds quite obviously.

 

[Drifter]

European Super League chairman: 'We're doing this to save football'

https://news.sky.com/story/european-super-league-chairman-were-doing-this-to-save-football-12280831