Evans vs Brown vs Smalling vs Jones as Centre Back

[UNITED ACADEMY]

So I watched few of our old classic matches recently. And it reminds me of how good Evans was (well I didn't mean it as top class centre back, I meant it as good centre back who can play for top 4 team whether it's first team or backup). It does remind me of my frustration how LVG decided to sell him especially knowing that he wanted to play from the back and Evans should have been much more ideal centre back for him than Jones or Smalling. At the same it does make me thinking whether he is the best among Smalling, Jones & Brown.

At the moment I placed Brown above Evans. However, I feel like it's not wrong as well to place Evans above Brown, I am still unsure which one is better among these two as centre back, I am still on 50:50 to be honest. Without a doubt to me these two are above Smalling & Jones. Smalling is probably the best one for defensive aspect alone, but I supposed you have to look at overall. This is my rank for these 4. O'Shea is more of a full back & midfield than centre back to me so I exclude him.

1. Brown
2. Evans
3. Smalling
4. Jones

What are your thought on them? Would you rate Evans higher than Brown? Would you even place Smalling & Jones higher? Should Evans be the one who stayed not Jones?

 

[Skills]

Evans doesn't really have much as a defender. Wasn't quick, wasn't strong, wasn't particularly good in the air & dropped a clanger way too often for someone who's top level wasn't particularly high. It's why he was at WBA for 3 years without anyone really interested in him.

I'd go for Smalling, Brown, Jones & then Evans. Brown and Jones were just injury ridden but had a lot in their locker. Smalling has been a very good player.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Evans and Brown without contest. And among those 4 i rate Wes the most. I have soft spot on quick central defenders

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Wes is easily the best out of those four.

Tough call between Smalling and Evans. Smalling adapted to this level more quickly but Evans might have had a higher ceiling. I'd probably give it to Evans because of the few times I saw Smalling seem to forget how to run with a ball under LvG and the time he laid out Drogba.

Jones, for whatever ability he has, is completely unreliable due to the injury potential.

 

[Skills]

Wes is easily the best out of those four.

Tough call between Smalling and Evans. Smalling adapted to this level more quickly but Evans might have had a higher ceiling. I'd probably give it to Evans because of the few times I saw Smalling seem to forget how to run with a ball under LvG and the time he laid out Drogba.

Jones, for whatever ability he has, is completely unreliable due to the injury potential.

Why? Literally, there's no raw attribute that Jonny Evans has that gives him any kind of untapped potential. Evans lived up to his potential which was a good midtable-ish player. I think people forget how many shockers Evans had - this is the guy who got sent off in the 6-1 derby and that thrashing we got against MK Dons. In Fergie's last 2 seasons, with Evans as a starter we were leaking goals for fun. Smalling managed to have a tighter defence with Daley Blind, than Evans managed with Rio Ferdinand as his partner.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Why? Literally, there's no raw attribute that Jonny Evans has that gives him any kind of untapped potential. Evans lived up to his potential which was a good midtable-ish player. I think people forget how many shockers Evans had - this is the guy who got sent off in the 6-1 derby and that thrashing we got against MK Dons. In Fergie's last 2 seasons, with Evans as a starter we were leaking goals for fun. Smalling managed to have a tighter defence with Daley Blind, than Evans managed with Rio Ferdinand as his partner.

He was young n lernin'.

 

[Red_Aaron]

Brown was ridiculously talented, its a shame injuries restricted his career so much.

I'm seemingly a bigger Evans fan than most on here, I'd have him alongside maguire now in our defence ahead of our other options

 

[Skills]

I think it's quite telling LVG, who was obsessed with ball playing defenders - to a degree that he converted Daley Blind to a CB & gave Paddy McNair & Blackett a career here, never rated Evans. People talk about him if he was Sergio Ramos on the ball - he wasn't. But more than that, his lack of pace or ability to deal with high balls meant that he was too much of a liability in a high line. Then again we bought Lindelof for 40m, who has the same issues so maybe we were better off sticking with Evans.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Evans doesn't really have much as a defender. Wasn't quick, wasn't strong, wasn't particularly good in the air & dropped a clanger way too often for someone who's top level wasn't particularly high. It's why he was at WBA for 3 years without anyone really interested in him.

I'd go for Smalling, Brown, Jones & then Evans. Brown and Jones were just injury ridden but had a lot in their locker. Smalling has been a very good player.

In term of physical attribute I agree but for modern football, Evans seems to be in favourite among the other 3 or at least the other 2. The guy can play from the back with both of his feet. Somehow the guy also contributed much more than both Smalling & Jones in the club, he stepped up massively in 2009/2010 when Rio hit lot of injuries, while in 2011/2012 & 2012/2013 when Vidic was still injured. He also played in some of our big games in 2008/2009, he became an injury prone right the season when Sir Alex left.

 

[Skills]

In term of physical attribute I agree but for modern football, Evans seems to be in favourite among the other 3 or at least the other 2. The guy can play from the back with both of his feet.

It's useless when you actually have to do some defending. Ball playing is important for CBs, but on-ball ability is far more important for your fullbacks. Your CBs are still your most important primary defenders. It's funny our fanbase has a really strange approach to this. They want AWB as their RB because he can defend, but want CBs primarily because of ball-playing talent.

Van Djik isn't the best defender in the world because he can play a pretty pass, that's the additional part of the game. He's fantastic because he can cover his fullbacks while they bomb on ahead, hold a high line because of his pace & dominate his box if the ball gets anywhere near it.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

It's useless when you actually have to do some defending. Ball playing is important, but on-ball ability is far more important for your fullbacks. Your CBs are still your most important primary defenders. It's funny our fanbase has a really strange approach to this. They want AWB as their RB because he can defend, but want CBs primarily because of ball-playing talent.

Van Djik isn't the best defender in the world because he can play a pretty pass, that's the additional part of the game. He's fantastic because he can cover his fullbacks while they bomb on ahead, hold a high line because of his pace & dominate his box if the ball gets anywhere near it.

I mentioned his ability as ball playing is just an extra to what he can offer over the others not to tell you that he's better based on one aspect alone.

How is being weaker physically is worse in defending anyway? Evans might be weaker physically compared the other three but he's not weak. If you want to talk an example of weak centre back, you are looking at Lindelof. In term of pace, he's pretty much as quick or as slow as Vidic who also not considered as quick centre back, lack of pace, doesn't make the player unable to cover full back.

Defending is not just about physical attribute, in fact brain plays more important part. What makes Van Dijk good is not his physical attribute, it's his brain when defending, his physical attribute just an extra boost to make him more complete or world class.

To give an idea, Evans played big part for our success & season ever since his breakthrough.
In 2008/2009, he played in some of our big games. In 2009/2010, he played more league games than Rio and stepped up to cover Rio's injury. In 2011/2012 & 2012/2013, he was pretty much our regular centre back taking over Vidic's injury. In 2nd half of the season of 2011/2012, Sir Alex announced that Evans was the best centre back in the country just for that season particular.

What even better is that he has more leadership skills than the other three.

In summary, not just he can defend better than average EPL centre back, he can play from the back & also has leadership skills.

 

[Skills]

I mentioned his ability as ball playing is just an extra to what he can offer over the others not to tell you that he's better based on one aspect alone.

How is being weaker physically is worse in defending anyway? Evans might be weaker physically compared the other three but he's not weak. If you want to talk an example of weak centre back, you are looking at Lindelof.

Lindelof and Evans are basically the same player. They have the same problems. Not particularly good in any aspect of defending but look comfortable on the ball without adding any real value.

In term of pace, he's pretty much as quick or as slow as Vidic who also not considered as quick centre back, lack of pace, doesn't make the player unable to cover full back.

Yes. But Vidic was immensely strong defending his box & a god in the air - and Rio made up for Vida's lack of pace. Maguire is slow but he's very, very strong in the air. So he at least offers something to a CB partnership. If you have Evans as one of your CBs, your other CB better be extremely quick, extremely strong in the box & extremely strong in the air. Because Evans isn't bringing any of those attributes to the table.

Defending is not just about physical attribute, in fact brain plays more important part. What makes Van Dijk good is not his physical attribute, it's his brain when defending, his physical attribute just an extra boost to make him more complete or world class.

Evans' brain wasn't particularly good enough to make up for his lack of physicality too. We saw that over the years. Well that's quite obviously false or else great CBs would be playing into their 40s. But they don't. We saw what happened to Vidic/Rio once they lost their athletic/physical mojo.

To give an idea, Evans played big part for our success & season ever since his breakthrough.
In 2008/2009, he played in some of our big games. In 2009/2010, he played more league games than Rio and stepped up to cover Rio's injury. In 2011/2012 & 2012/2013, he was pretty much our regular centre back taking over Vidic's injury. In 2nd half of the season of 2011/2012, Sir Alex announced that Evans was the best centre back in the country just for that season particular.

What even better is that he has more leadership skills than the other three.

In summary, not just he can defend better than average EPL centre back, he can play from the back & also has leadership skills.

Evans did play his role to be fair. So did O'Shea who was also fairly limited, but I think that's what makes Sir Alex Ferguson so great. I honestly think Evans was on his way out if Ferguson managed to get his hands on Varane in 11/12. I think Smalling coming in 10/11 kind of exposed Evans' weaknesses which is why Fergie into the market for both Jones & Varane in the following summer.

Btw is leadership just pointing and blaming other people? In all my years of watching Evans at United (pre and post Fergie), I never saw him once pick up the most difficult assignment on a free kick or a corner. He'd always leave that to someone else. I guess, self-awareness is a positive attribute though. And it's a bit funny how the supposed "leader" was the one to first fall apart when Rio & Vida were moved on, and it was time to step up to the plate.

 

[DWelbz19]

Smalling > Brown > Evans > Jones

 

[Van Piorsing]

Smalling was bit more self reliant than Evans so I'm gonna go with Brown and Smalling ahead of Jones and Evans.

Brown in his peak was versatile and could easily cover for Gary.

 

[Skills]

Smalling was bit more self reliant than Evans so I'm gonna go with Brown and Smalling ahead of Jones and Evans.

Really good description. One I've been failing to find the entire thread to make my point more succinctly.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Lindelof and Evans are basically the same player. They have the same problems. Not particularly good in any aspect of defending but look comfortable on the ball without adding any real value.

Not for me. To me Lindelof is total weak physically, he can be bullied easily by any EPL strikers. Evans won't be bullied easily by anyone in EPL. By Drogba yes but not by some other strikers like Rondon or Deeney for example. Lindelof couldn't even win header against 178cm player, Evans can easily win header against anyone taller than 180cm.

Yes. But Vidic was immensely strong defending his box & a god in the air - and Rio made up for Vida's lack of pace. Maguire is slow but he's very, very strong in the air. So he at least offers something to a CB partnership. If you have Evans as one of your CBs, your other CB better be extremely quick, extremely strong in the box & extremely strong. Because Evans isn't bringing any of those attributes to the table.

Evans' brain wasn't particularly good enough to make up for his lack of physicality too. We saw that over the years. Well that's quite obviously false or else great CBs would be playing into their 40s. But they don't. We saw what happened to Vidic/Rio once they lost their athletic/physical mojo.

Like I said before physical attribute is just extra boost for defender to make them more complete & world class. The key or the fundamental of being good centre back is in their brain & also their leadership to command the defense. In Evans's case, he never a world class, thus why my comparison is on players who aren't world class like Brown, Smalling, Jones caliber. You are using wrong example.

Evans did play his role to be fair. So did O'Shea who was also fairly limited, but I think that's what makes Sir Alex Ferguson so great. I honestly think Evans was on his way out if Ferguson managed to get his hands on Varane in 11/12. I think Smalling coming in 10/11 kind of exposed Evans' weaknesses which is why Fergie into the market for both Jones & Varane in the following summer.

Btw is leadership just pointing and blaming other people? In all my years of watching Evans at United (pre and post Fergie), I never saw him once pick up the most difficult assignment on a free kick or a corner. He'd always leave that to someone else. I guess, self-awareness is a positive attribute though.

Not sure what makes you think that way (bold mark) because you have zero fact or proof to back your own statement & counter my statement because Evans was our regular centre back in 11/12 & 12/13 season. Sir Alex was into market for Jones or Varane because we lost both O'Shea & Brown, it makes sense to find replacement as well as trying to develop the player.

Sir Alex even said Evans was the best centre back in the country at that time in 11/12. Smalling & Jones failed to take an advantage to play in regular spot in the time when Vidic was injured. Evans was the manager's preference. At least I have something to backup my statement & counter yours.

I only called Evans being better in his leadership due to the fact that guy was a captain of his country, West Brom & what I saw in his leadership potential during his time at United. On the other hand the main reason why both Mourinho & Ole wanted a new centre back as a leader in back four because they see nothing in Smalling & Jones as leader.

 

[manutddjw]

1. Smalling
2. Evans
3. Brown
4. Jones

Smalling has been a good defender for the most part. Since LvG, he's been our best defender and I was baffled we sent him on loan. Evans was good if he had Ferdinand or Vidic next to him, but he needed to be carried. Brown is an odd one because besides the goal against Liverpool and the 07-08 season at right back I barely remember anything about his career despite him being here for over a decade. Jones I only think about funny faces, rashness and Sir Alex's best ever claim.

 

[Foxbatt]

Wes by a big margin. He was very quick and can tackle very well, good header and rarely get beaten for pace. His one fault for me was getting too tight on the striker sometimes. He had too many injuries to progress. He was a good football player too.

 

[edcunited1878]

Sir Alex even said Evans was the best centre back in the country at that time in 11/12. Smalling & Jones failed to take an advantage to play in regular spot in the time when Vidic was injured. Evans was the manager's preference. At least I have something to backup my statement & counter yours.

I only called Evans being better in his leadership due to the fact that guy was a captain of his country, West Brom & what I saw in his leadership potential during his time at United. On the other hand the main reason why both Mourinho & Ole wanted a new centre back as a leader in back four because they see nothing in Smalling & Jones as leader.

Evans peaked during the 11/12 season. Then the next season, Vidic and Rio gave their best final effort to win the league with Evans rotating in. But 12/13 wasn't as good as 11/12 for Evans. He never kicked on due to injuries the next couple of years and never regained his form and really regressed under LVG. Mentally, he was shattered at the end, just like Chicha was before LVG sold them off. He stablized his career at WBA then moved to Leicester where he has been good.

Interestingly, Leicester has only conceded 2 fewer goals than United during the 19/20 season thus far through 29 matches. So the defense for United have been Top 4/5 all season, but going forward they've been mid-table for far too long in the early months which is why they are just only now scrapping into Champions League places.

But back to the OP, think there isn't much between Brown, Evans, and Smalling as CBs. All have their strengths and clear weaknesses, in addition to looking back at their careers to consider injuries, availability, and staying power at United or just being able to play for another decent club. Jones is the clear leader at the bottom. Absolute shame how he's turned out for United. He's been a good lad and professional when possible because he wouldn't have been around still if he wasn't a bad apple, but from his time with Blackburn with Samba as his centerback partner...his trajectory went absolutely ass backwards.

 

[cyril C]

First of all I think you are wrong to exclude JOS. JOS is the most versatile defender in history and would be the 1st name (on bench) for any top team in the world. Sorry for him with such label, but so was Ole and Hernandez.

Among your quoted 4, I would pick Brown ahead of all. Brown is quick and strong, just too injury prone I think.

Evans was good as #3 CB when covered by other senior CB, his limitation was exposed when he suddenly became the leader upon Vidic/Rio retirement. Evans wasn't able to lead from the back at all, regardless of his age, and Smalling was the better leader among them. If you don't put so much requirement onto your CB, both Smalling and Evans are good enough. But then, in the era even keeper is expected to be able to dribble, none of our CB can meet such requirement. So I would rate

Brown, Smalling, Evans, Jones.

 

[Class of 63]

Brown

Jones
Evans


Smalling

No words needed, just eyes.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Evans peaked during the 11/12 season. Then the next season, Vidic and Rio gave their best final effort to win the league with Evans rotating in. But 12/13 wasn't as good as 11/12 for Evans.

Jonny Evans played 23 league games & 5 CL in total with 21 & 5 of them were as starter in 12/13. He was regular starter before Vidic made a come back in 2nd half of the season, and if I am not mistaken or if I remember correctly and I could be wrong but I thought we were already in comfortable position after that first half of the season on the table (even though mathematically we hadn't won the league). My point was that Evans contributed equally important as Vidic or may be more for our title winning in that season.

I think Evans played equally good in both 11/12 & 12/13 in term of quality, he only had less injury in 11/12 while in 12/13 he was also being rotated with Vidic when he came back in 2nd half of the season. I remember we were winning 2-0 against City away and he was off due to injury in 2nd half, replaced by Smalling and we conceded 2 goals.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

First of all I think you are wrong to exclude JOS. JOS is the most versatile defender in history and would be the 1st name (on bench) for any top team in the world. Sorry for him with such label, but so was Ole and Hernandez.

Among your quoted 4, I would pick Brown ahead of all. Brown is quick and strong, just too injury prone I think.

Evans was good as #3 CB when covered by other senior CB, his limitation was exposed when he suddenly became the leader upon Vidic/Rio retirement. Evans wasn't able to lead from the back at all, regardless of his age, and Smalling was the better leader among them. If you don't put so much requirement onto your CB, both Smalling and Evans are good enough. But then, in the era even keeper is expected to be able to dribble, none of our CB can meet such requirement. So I would rate

Brown, Smalling, Evans, Jones.

Well, that's my reason I excluded him as I had explained in the original post. I don't consider him as specialist centre back, more of a versatile player and perfect for the bench. Can play in centre back, midfield and best position is full backs.

 

[POF]

1. Smalling
2. Evans
3. Brown
4. Jones

Smalling has been a good defender for the most part. Since LvG, he's been our best defender and I was baffled we sent him on loan. Evans was good if he had Ferdinand or Vidic next to him, but he needed to be carried. Brown is an odd one because besides the goal against Liverpool and the 07-08 season at right back I barely remember anything about his career despite him being here for over a decade. Jones I only think about funny faces, rashness and Sir Alex's best ever claim.

Agree with this order. Smalling is easily the best defender of the 4. Evans might actually be the least talented but for a number of seasons played as first choice in successful teams (albeit with Vidic holding his hand).

The other 2 are a tale of unfulfilled potential. Both were great natural athletes and strong tacklers but they were extremely error prone. It's hard to know if they would have grown out of that with more experience and maturity but due to injuries we'll never know.

 

[MrMarcello]

Brown
Smalling
Evans
Jones

 

[Mcking]

Smalling. Thought he was one of the best center halfs in Europe. Evans was a very average defender with us.
Smalling
Brown
Jones
Evans

 

[adexkola]

Evans and Brown
Smalling
Jones

 

[Drainy]

Do people only remember Evans last season under LVG or something?

Christ..

 

[Bebestation]

1. Smalling
2. Brown
3. Evans
4. Jones

 

[Bebestation]

Agree with this order. Smalling is easily the best defender of the 4. Evans might actually be the least talented but for a number of seasons played as first choice in successful teams (albeit with Vidic holding his hand).

The other 2 are a tale of unfulfilled potential. Both were great natural athletes and strong tacklers but they were extremely error prone. It's hard to know if they would have grown out of that with more experience and maturity but due to injuries we'll never know.

Brown's a good defender but struggled himself playing as a central defender for SAF alongside much better partners. Imagine what he would be like under LVG, Moyes, Jose or Interim Ole?

Smalling absolutely demolishes brown & for some reason this ability to play the ball from the back now makes you a better defender.

I respect all our players, but just because they can pass or dribble past a press doesn't always mean they are, were or will be the best defender for us.

Smalling is the best of the bunch.

Not highlighting it as an epitome of the sport but Wes brown to me was best as a RB and wasnt that good as a CB and he still wouldn't play for Roma as a central defender.

 

[edcunited1878]

Do people only remember Evans last season under LVG or something?

Christ..

Evans had two and a half really good seasons at United...and that's it. He was unable to take the mantle that was Rio and Vidic, then bring along Smalling and Jones like Rio and Vidic did for him. Injuries, downturn in form, then he was lost.

He has regained good form and stability the past few years, so good for him.

Smalling never had a dip in form so severe and has been more consistent than Evans. Smalling may have had equal or worse partners than Evans as well...although the Blind and Smalling pairing was nice at times.

 

[MadDogg]

If it weren't for injuries Brown would have been the best of the four. As it is I'd rank them:

Smalling
Brown
Evans
Jones

 

[SpyLuke10]

Smalling and Brown
Jones
Evans

People forget how shit Evans was when we sold him. I mean I was celebrating when we sold him like I would now if we sold Phil Jones. Liability on the ball. Nevertheless, when we sold Evans, Phil Jones was higher up in the pecking order at United.

I'm a tad confused why the OP has included Brown in this topic. I see Brown as from a different era at United than the other 3.

 

[RikRuud]

Brown - Smalling - Evans----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Jones

 

[SpyLuke10]

Brown

Jones
Evans


Smalling

No words needed, just eyes.

You must be completely deluded to rate Smalling like this. Shoulda gone to specsavers.

 

[Class of 63]

You must be completely deluded to rate Smalling like this. Shoulda gone to specsavers.

Must I?

LvG didn't over-rate him, neither did Jose, Ole was quite happy to let him go on loan, and the current England Manager doesn't rate him either, maybe we should all go to specsavers!?

 

[SweetRightFoot]

Loads of people saying that you don't have to be good with the ball to be a good centre back...

What do you need then? Just to be tall and fast? Not sure what else Smalling offers. It's not just that he's clumsy but he's repeatedly shown he's a liability at reading the game too. A sort of one-trick-pony for the defense, great at what he does but shit at the rest. A Mourinho player, really. A 'specialist'.

As for this thread? Wes Brown played nearly 400 games for us and picked up 5 PL medals and won 2 Champions Leagues. Enough said.

 

[Revan]

Brown is the best, tie between Smalling and Evans, Jones being the worst.

 

[diarm]

Brown is the best, tie between Smalling and Evans, Jones being the worst.

I'd have Brown as the best, Evans by a distance 2nd and then a battle between Smalling and Jones for the wooden spoon.

 

[stevoc]

Brown injuries or not he was the best of the four by quite a distance.



Smalling Limited but reliable defender

Evans great with a solid partner but injuries and inconsistency stopped him reaching his early potential.

Jones had maybe the greatest potential but is arguably a worse player now than he was 10 years ago when we signed him. He just hasn't progressed at all. He can still have great games but they're few and far between. And thats only on the rare occasions when the planets align and he actually stays fit for 3-4 games in a row.