I remember van Gaal once assigned Jones to take corners
Evans vs Brown vs Smalling vs Jones as Centre Back
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Brown's ability at right back is being seriously overrated here. He played right back like an extra centre back. He produced nothing offensively and United could get away with him playing there because they had such an offensive weapon in Evra on the other side.
On the ball, he was limited. He was far weaker than Jones and Evans and only marginally better than Smalling. Jones was an incredible attacking option when he first joined the club.
There's a lot of nostalgia when it comes to Wes. Smalling and Jones as youngsters breaking into the United team looked far more promising than Wes.
In reality, Wes was just a talented youngster that never made it. Injuries certainly hampered him but his reputation is more based on what people thought he would develop into rather than his actual performances.
John O'Shea (who was rated nowhere near as highly) ended up being a much better player and had a far better career.
On the ball, he was limited. He was far weaker than Jones and Evans and only marginally better than Smalling. Jones was an incredible attacking option when he first joined the club.
There's a lot of nostalgia when it comes to Wes. Smalling and Jones as youngsters breaking into the United team looked far more promising than Wes.
In reality, Wes was just a talented youngster that never made it. Injuries certainly hampered him but his reputation is more based on what people thought he would develop into rather than his actual performances.
John O'Shea (who was rated nowhere near as highly) ended up being a much better player and had a far better career.
The problem with Evans is that he only ever played well next to Rio or Vidic.
I honestly think several of Liverpool's current centre backs wouldn't look anywhere near as good if they weren't next to Van Dijk. I'm always a bit suspect of how a player would do on their own when they are used to playing next to a world class centre back.
I honestly think several of Liverpool's current centre backs wouldn't look anywhere near as good if they weren't next to Van Dijk. I'm always a bit suspect of how a player would do on their own when they are used to playing next to a world class centre back.
Smalling in the fergie era had some really good games.
This pretty much sums it up.
Brown is only in this conversation because of his injuries. He's miles ahead otherwise.
Smalling and Evans are fairly equal. Both good but limited, and neither had the ability to step up to the top level.
Jones was supposed to be better than all of them but he is now easily the worst.
Wes Brown, by a comfortable margin.
Wes was the only one with the potential to be WC. His injuries ruined him. Smalling was the best of the lot. At times he was our best CB. Evans was quite decent in his time while Jones...well there's little to say about Jones
1. Smalling
2. Wes
3. Evans
4. Meme
1. Smalling
2. Wes
3. Evans
4. Meme
Yes he was, was periods where you expected him to make a mistake every game that led to plenty of goal scoring opportunities. The comparison to Rooney is mental for two reasons.
First Evans playing a position where mistakes lead to goals and as a result centre half always have to be more consistent than any other position on the pitch other than maybe keepers.
Rooney was also 10x the player Evans ever was and you knew he would eventually start banging in goals again. He earned the patience he was shown. If we want to talk about players being revised on Roiney gets shit on by planet if fans for his last few years forgetting how good he was before that.
If you want to talk about a defender who was derailed by injuries but still cant be declared as shite look no further than another in this list in Brown rather than proto Jones.
Brown
Evans
Smalling
Jones
Evans
Smalling
Jones
Brown by a country mile. Had he not suffered through the injuries from 99 through to around 01, I'm not 100% sure we'd have even signed Rio. Fergie rated Brown as the best young defender in England when he broke through. Injuries curtailed what could have been an outstanding career with us and England.
Evans comes next, way more reliable than either of the other two. He could read the game well and defend better than the other two, the only thing that potentially pulls him close to Smalling and Jones is that he isn't quite as versatile as the other two. I still think we sold him 2 or 3 seasons too early.
Jones is third on my list, ability wise he's above Smalling and perhaps had things panned out as they could have done, would have been Brown's long term replacement. However, as with Brown he's lost so much of his career to injuries, that have robbed him of what potentially was a very very good career. Like Brown at the same point in his career, he needs a couple of games to get himself playing well for the first team, the problem is that he's still picking up silly niggling injuries, for which he can't be blamed totally for. He just doesn't seem to get a decent run in the team to prove himself anymore.
Smalling, plucked from non-league by Fulham and it shows. Far too often he has brain farts and makes stupid errors. Under LVG he thought he was some sort of ball playing defender, but all he'd do would be run to the centre line and then pass the ball straight back to the opposition. Over came a spell where like Jones he couldn't stay fit, but even in his best season with us under LVG when we won the cup, a lot of that was down to Blind who told him where he needed to be and who to mark, rather than his own ability. He nearly cost us the cup final with his stupidity, he was in such a poor position that he had no option but to get himself sent off. So glad he's away from the club and hopefully never comes back, we've got way better coming through and could easily buy better players than him.
Evans comes next, way more reliable than either of the other two. He could read the game well and defend better than the other two, the only thing that potentially pulls him close to Smalling and Jones is that he isn't quite as versatile as the other two. I still think we sold him 2 or 3 seasons too early.
Jones is third on my list, ability wise he's above Smalling and perhaps had things panned out as they could have done, would have been Brown's long term replacement. However, as with Brown he's lost so much of his career to injuries, that have robbed him of what potentially was a very very good career. Like Brown at the same point in his career, he needs a couple of games to get himself playing well for the first team, the problem is that he's still picking up silly niggling injuries, for which he can't be blamed totally for. He just doesn't seem to get a decent run in the team to prove himself anymore.
Smalling, plucked from non-league by Fulham and it shows. Far too often he has brain farts and makes stupid errors. Under LVG he thought he was some sort of ball playing defender, but all he'd do would be run to the centre line and then pass the ball straight back to the opposition. Over came a spell where like Jones he couldn't stay fit, but even in his best season with us under LVG when we won the cup, a lot of that was down to Blind who told him where he needed to be and who to mark, rather than his own ability. He nearly cost us the cup final with his stupidity, he was in such a poor position that he had no option but to get himself sent off. So glad he's away from the club and hopefully never comes back, we've got way better coming through and could easily buy better players than him.
Are people rating Brown on what he could have been if not for injuries?
What season was Brown ever a consistent CB for us? I appreciate he was probably the most talented but I don’t remember a consistent run he had for us.
I feel like the fantastic 07/08 season at RB is clouding opinion.
Smalling’s solid 15/16 season alongside Blind seems to have been forgotten now. He had some good runs alongside Vidic and Rio when both started to play a lot less towards the end of SAF’s Run too.
What season was Brown ever a consistent CB for us? I appreciate he was probably the most talented but I don’t remember a consistent run he had for us.
I feel like the fantastic 07/08 season at RB is clouding opinion.
Smalling’s solid 15/16 season alongside Blind seems to have been forgotten now. He had some good runs alongside Vidic and Rio when both started to play a lot less towards the end of SAF’s Run too.
Wes Brown could have partnered Ferdinand for England for years, if it weren't for the horrible injuries he had which curtailed his fitness and development. He really could have been that good.
At his best, Brown was the most talented defender, though I preferred him at RB generally.
Of the rest, only Smalling reached his expected level. A good, relatively consistent player, but still nowhere near Brown at his best.
Evans had potential but didn't kick on after that first season or two, though his move to Leicester has given his career a jump-start. Jones had even bigger potential, but has his fitness has been a disaster.
Of the rest, only Smalling reached his expected level. A good, relatively consistent player, but still nowhere near Brown at his best.
Evans had potential but didn't kick on after that first season or two, though his move to Leicester has given his career a jump-start. Jones had even bigger potential, but has his fitness has been a disaster.
Hallelujah, finally somebody that gets it.
Dolly and Daisy are widely regarded as one of United's greatest central-defensive partnerships, neither were better than Evans(on the ball or positionally), and both prone to serious brainfarts which resulted in goals, but they got away with it because we kept winning, and they had Kanchelskis(eventually), Hughes and Giggs working their tripe off up front, and then Robson, Ince and/or Keane kicking everything that beat that first-press in front of them making their jobs a damn sight easier.
Evans, and the other centre-halves that have played since our last great team broke up have been left exposed time and time again because the strikers and midfielders weren't doing their jobs properly and it's far too easy to blame them for other team-mates errors, and i'd guess those that blame them most have never played the game to any level, or haven't got a clue what they are actually watching.
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Wesley 'Golden' Brown tops my list, he wasn't touted as the new Paul McGrath for nothing.
Evans for me. Very underrated ability on the ball, also his organisational skills were also underrated. He perhaps lacked strength and at times had issues with his confidence although that applies to all the names on this list in fairness. Next to Vidic he looked very good, they complimented each other very well, what Evans lacked in strength/aggression, Vidic took care of that and similarly what Vidic lacked playing out from the back, Evans took care of that.It was one of LVG's biggest mistakes, selling Evans and selling him for so little. LVG was never going to be here for the long haul and for him to get rid of a player we could still be using now for so little was bad planning.
Evans was an absolute liability. He's the worst of the bunch.
1. Smalling
2. Brown
3. Jones
4. Evans
1. Smalling
2. Brown
3. Jones
4. Evans
Brown put in two monster performances at CB in huge cup semi finals against Arsenal in 2004 and Barcelona 2nd leg in 2008. He was a very good defender that was just blighted by injuries, but he still had a lot of great moments I'd say.
Evans was a decent defender that had a nightmare final season here under Van Gaal, Smalling is a good centre back in terms of pure defending but he's hopeless on the ball.
Jones had great potential at one time but he never fulfilled it and the last 2 or 3 years he's been a comedy figure. He's dreadful and easily the worst of the 4.
Evans was a decent defender that had a nightmare final season here under Van Gaal, Smalling is a good centre back in terms of pure defending but he's hopeless on the ball.
Jones had great potential at one time but he never fulfilled it and the last 2 or 3 years he's been a comedy figure. He's dreadful and easily the worst of the 4.
Harsh. Did you forgot? or choose to forget?
Who delivered the cross to CR in a certain CL 2008 final?
Among many other things, he's also a constant supports in providing many overlap runs per game, and crosses into the box (even if the quality of crosses is inconsistent but hey, get the job done by putting it in always unsettling the defense). Also, rare but once in a long while, he may score headers.
I agree with your other points, except that bizarre statement. You might also forgot the quality of Evra's crosses are always being criticized.
You're right. Good memory. Thought he played RB in that game.
Vidic is either injured or likely suspended?
I feel people overrate Brown. I mean, he was great to have as a squad player and offered good backup at times. There were instances where he was even first choice in some positions (RB is what I remember more) while we were in a transition period. However, he was always a player who had a mistake in him and he had a ceiling that kept him from becoming one of the best defenders.
Smalling started off being the most ordinary of the lot of them but ending up being the most useful. I feel as a pure defender he's fine and has been the best defender in post Fergie years. The new onus on playing out from the back probably makes people rate him less than they should.
Evans and Jones were both players who had injury problems that didn't allow them to be the best of themselves while at United. They both had a few highs and good performances at certain points of their United careers but never really fulfilled their potential in my view.
Smalling started off being the most ordinary of the lot of them but ending up being the most useful. I feel as a pure defender he's fine and has been the best defender in post Fergie years. The new onus on playing out from the back probably makes people rate him less than they should.
Evans and Jones were both players who had injury problems that didn't allow them to be the best of themselves while at United. They both had a few highs and good performances at certain points of their United careers but never really fulfilled their potential in my view.
Evans is criminally underrated by United fans. Prime and injury free Evans was one of the best CBs in the league, stepped up and played admirably in better times. Sir Alex rated him pretty highly thus made easy selling Pique at the time.
Evans, Brown, Smalling, Jones, for me, in that order.
Evans, Brown, Smalling, Jones, for me, in that order.
Did you start watching United in 2014?
Brown was an excellent CB, and would have played there much more if not for Vidic and Ferdinand. Had a lot of injuries though. Some similarities with Smalling as a player but a little more cultured.
I would put him at the top of the list. Evans is very good too but he definitely went through a period here where his limitations and especially lack of pace were exposed. Not a problem for Wes who was quick as well as aggressive in the tackle and good in the air.
Jones had lots of potential but his career never lifted off properly because of all the injuries.
Brown - Evans - Smalling - Jones
I would put him at the top of the list. Evans is very good too but he definitely went through a period here where his limitations and especially lack of pace were exposed. Not a problem for Wes who was quick as well as aggressive in the tackle and good in the air.
Jones had lots of potential but his career never lifted off properly because of all the injuries.
Brown - Evans - Smalling - Jones
Brown
Smalling
Jones
Evans
Smalling
Jones
Evans
Wes is top for me. The only reason there can be any doubt against this is when just considering him purely as a CB, as he never really had a full season there, always alternating between RB and CB and having his best season at RB in 07/08.
Fergie labelled him as the most natural defender who has worked with and some of his performances down the years were exceptional, like the semi final against Barca both home and away. Unfortunately he was injured way too often and then had to compete against Rio/Vidic whilst we didn't have a fit RB due to Neville/Rafa being injured therefore was naturally selected at RB.
Smalling is a good 'defender'. He was a very good deputy for Rio/Vidic and was a really tough choice to leave him out when we played Chelsea in the CL QF's (not sure what season) as he was just as solid as Rio/Vidic had been. He even played RB for us at times, and looked decent going forward. I always felt he suffered with confidence issues. He came from non-league football and was probably overwhelmed training with such high level technical players that he felt he couldn't be part of such a team. At times, he looked an elite CB but others he was just a calamity waiting to happen and seemed to suffer from massive dips in form.
Evans like has been mentioned is akin to Lindelof. If you play up against his weaknesses you are going to have some success with him. He could be bullied in the air and on the turn. Some games he looks fantastic though and he put good runs of form together at United.
Jones is definitely bottom of the pile. Looked great bursting on to the scene, would play well for a couple of games, make a mistake, get injured, rinse and repeat.
Fergie labelled him as the most natural defender who has worked with and some of his performances down the years were exceptional, like the semi final against Barca both home and away. Unfortunately he was injured way too often and then had to compete against Rio/Vidic whilst we didn't have a fit RB due to Neville/Rafa being injured therefore was naturally selected at RB.
Smalling is a good 'defender'. He was a very good deputy for Rio/Vidic and was a really tough choice to leave him out when we played Chelsea in the CL QF's (not sure what season) as he was just as solid as Rio/Vidic had been. He even played RB for us at times, and looked decent going forward. I always felt he suffered with confidence issues. He came from non-league football and was probably overwhelmed training with such high level technical players that he felt he couldn't be part of such a team. At times, he looked an elite CB but others he was just a calamity waiting to happen and seemed to suffer from massive dips in form.
Evans like has been mentioned is akin to Lindelof. If you play up against his weaknesses you are going to have some success with him. He could be bullied in the air and on the turn. Some games he looks fantastic though and he put good runs of form together at United.
Jones is definitely bottom of the pile. Looked great bursting on to the scene, would play well for a couple of games, make a mistake, get injured, rinse and repeat.
Why many mentioned that Barca's games, deflecting the question of Brown as CB? He was clumsy, slow in turn, and never fully fit the whole season playing as CB. And his time with Sunderland was a disaster as CB. Smalling and Evans have much greater career as CB, either at United or outside.
Any manager would pick Smalling or Evans over Brown to have them in his team, all things considered (yes, that include injury).
Any manager would pick Smalling or Evans over Brown to have them in his team, all things considered (yes, that include injury).
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pretty much, late late 2013.
Brown, Smalling, Evans, Jones
You could argue for Smalling over Brown given how little Brown played at cb over his career with usand the teams he played in were generally far superior and controlled games better, but seeing Brown flying into tackles was great!
You could argue for Smalling over Brown given how little Brown played at cb over his career with usand the teams he played in were generally far superior and controlled games better, but seeing Brown flying into tackles was great!
Evans gets a bad rep in my opinion. He's a much better version of Lindelof. Has better passing, comfortable with both feet and is defensively better.
Funny how Phil Jones actually survived the cull and Evans didn't.
I'd say it's Brown, Evans, Smalling and then Jones.
Funny how Phil Jones actually survived the cull and Evans didn't.
I'd say it's Brown, Evans, Smalling and then Jones.
What a year to start watching haha.
That fecking year was absolute bonkers. Depressing shit period.
It's understandable your rating of Evans then. You missed the best football he played for our club, imo he was a very very solid CB in a time Vidic and Rio were the standard.
He also said Phil Jones could be our greatest ever player...
He takes a mean corner.
1. Brown
2. Evans
3. Smalling
4. Jones (he had the biggest potential imo but injuries have ruined his career and has zero confidence while trying to hard to impress, a bit of a sad story really)
2. Evans
3. Smalling
4. Jones (he had the biggest potential imo but injuries have ruined his career and has zero confidence while trying to hard to impress, a bit of a sad story really)
I think you need to understand that Sir Alex praised Evans's 11/12 performance not his potential. Manager praised him of what he had done.
He didn't really praised Jones performance, he only spoke about Jones's talent & potential. Let's face it, if he's not injury prone, you never know what he'll become.
yeah whilst i watched some united games before then (first game i ever remember watching is the 2008 final funnily enough, i was 10 years old then, i woke up early in the morning and my dad was watching it on the TV and I sat down and watched it with him - hes a United fan), the leverkusen 5-0 win is when i started watching pretty regularly. I watched a lot of games in the 2014 world cup and by the time LVG was managing us I was watching every game. And still to this day I watch every game, game in game out, though sometimes not live (I'm from Australia, games are usually in the middle of the night).
Anyway yeah, from when I was watching Evans didnt do so well at all. Nevertheless, I think I ought to revise my ranking, Smalling > Evans > Jones, I've swapped Evans and Jones as you can see. tbh I cant really rank brown since i hardly watched him play.
The amount of times commentator yelled Brown's crosses.
He's so much better and more natural at RB and often a risk at CB.
Best versions of Smalling and Evans are slightly better at CB.
His contribution to attacks is good, but then his role then is his defensive ability brought good balance to the team that already have top monstrous high attacking talents so it's not a huge problem.
Similarly, I hate how AWB is being downplayed -- his attacks is fine, there is more for improvements of course, thing is our defense is a huge problem so he is needed to balance it up. Unfortunately with Pogba out and Bruno not arriving then, our attacks are hugely lacking. So it's a bit undeserved blaming him. Football is a team game. TAA at Pool has the disciplined midfield to cover his drawbacks. Interestingly, there is less focus on criticizing and instead appreciating AWB's attacks now (with more highlights before the "pause") once that Bruno is hitting all cylinders and filling in the huge gaps.
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This is rubbish. Evans was ahead of all of them. There was a point in 2001-2002 where Brown was playing CB for us and was getting so much stick for making mistakes. He was a better RB really. Smalling was good in 15/16 but that’s about it and Jones is just wank full stop.
Vidic and Ferdinand get the praise for the unreal defensive run in 08/09 but Evans was absolute class during that. He was our best defender in 12/13.
You thought Smalling was one of the best CB in Europe?. Sorry looks a bit if a typo so not sure if that is what you mean