Why ? What did you expect of him when he was appointed on the last day of January ? Qualifying for Europe after spending hundreds of millions ?
Everton - What next?
- Thread starter SilentWitness
- Start date
Genuinely surprised at Lampard having support. He’s an awful manager and almost got them relegated after a shocker of a transfer window. They finished lower than when he took over.
Had they gone down, he’d have been sacked. The additional four points should not see him keep his job in my opinion.
Edit : Post above made me realise how late in Jan he was appointed. Probably deserved a pass on transfers due to time available.
Had they gone down, he’d have been sacked. The additional four points should not see him keep his job in my opinion.
Edit : Post above made me realise how late in Jan he was appointed. Probably deserved a pass on transfers due to time available.
Your post ignores all context of the situation of before and after he was appointed.
Not really. You can actually do better than Lampard. Come on we are talking about fecking Everton here not a minnow club.
Your owners are as clueless as ours. So wouldn't expect any better.
Not really. You’ve just made that up. Besides, Writing in all of the context would have taken ages.
All good if you think he’s the right man for your club. I think the fella steals a living as a manager though.
You expect people to be objective when you are not objective yourself. Okay. Finishing lower than when lampard took over is meaningless when their sole priority was not to get relegated this season after he took over which he managed to do however uninspiring it was. Sure Everton were saved by the skin of their teeth and nobody is saying lampard did a stellar job but he did what was required (minimum) of him to do at the end and that can’t be held against him and be a reason for his sacking. Maybe with another manager they would have got relegated or maybe they would have been safe easily. Who knows? The point is they wouldn’t be achieving anything at all this season other than just staying in the premier league. This season was a write off before he was even appointed. Next season is the begining of his performance as a manager and if he is still terrible after all the support then you would be pleasantly surprised to know people’s opinion about him.
Also, no one has an affiliation with lampard or is being supportive of him. It’s just that you are being incredibly harsh in judging him for his only 3-4 months in charge. Don’t forget Everton is run terribly just like us. We are basically their version on steroids. So it’s not always easy for the manager to come and just do his job especially this season for them where it all went tits up for whatever reason, again just like us.
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What's the use of appointing a manager if you don't even let him have a proper shot?
He came in when Everton were in crisis mode with a bad morale around the club. He hasn't even had a proper chance to properly sort stuff out yet. Way too early to judge him. The jury is still out.
I doubt they brought him in as a temporary interim.
If he doesn't do well enough, he'll be sacked after 11-13 games anyways.
I haven’t made anything up.
He was appointed at the end of January and had no time to assess the squad before making the only transfers he realistically could with minimal time.
We were in freefall before he joined. Everyone thought when he joined it was the wrong move because it would be the worst club and environment to walk into due to the toxicity. There’s far less of that because of Lampard.
Benitez got 19 from 19 (GD -9). Lampard 20 from 19 (GD -14).
He's nowhere near good enough for anything other than narrowly escaping another relegation dogfight.
Should do what you should have done with Ole. Say 'thanks' at the end of that first half season and then make a proper hiring.
That's exactly what is likely to happen and why they should hire someone better now.
I'm still surprised people haven't realised Everton is now essentially a money-laundering operation for Moshiri and his Russian buddies.
just one small example: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...r-london-house-farhad-moshiri-alisher-usmanov
just one small example: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...r-london-house-farhad-moshiri-alisher-usmanov
Again, you’re ignoring context. Benitez had a full pre-season with that squad. Lampard jumped straight into the job and had to work with what he had.
I’m not sure the point you’re trying to prove with those stats either by showing Lampard got more points when he didn’t have a pre-season or two transfer windows and Benitez got rid of two of our highest creators from the previous season in Digne and Rodriguez. We also pretty much wrote off the last game by changing most of the first team after surviving mid week so we were never going to get any points in that game against an Arsenal side that needed to win desperately.
I’m not saying Lampard is the answer and I’ve still got my doubts over whether he can get us to where but it’s odd that people are ignoring the position the club was in (overall, not just in the league) when he took over.
It’s possible for managers to evolve and improve and I think Lampard has shown enough in 6 months to be given an opportunity.
They were sinking like a stone (5 points from previous 13 games) before Lampard came in. He had one job, and that was to keep them up. We'll find out in the new season whether he's good enough to push them further up the table or not.
Wow those stats are shocking for both.
Did Benitez have an enormous injury crisis? No DCL for most of those games?
Their home form was actually quite decent under him. I know Benitez got early season wins at Goodison but pretty sure they were actually against teams who got relegated in the end (and he also lost 5-2 at home to Watford.
Lampard got home wins v Leeds, Newcastle (when they had just won 5 straight), Man. United, Chelsea and Palace from 2 down so considering he had only 8-9 home games left when he took over that's a very good outcome.
Trick now in August is to try to continue that moment when there won't be such jeopardy on the outcome and the atmosphere won't be as intense as the away teams certainly seemed to suffer from that. Can Everton do anything away from home aswell as don't think they picked up a single point away from home when falling behind from mid December which is a ridiculous bad mentality.
Can't see them troubling the top half next season given Leicester weren't great but still finished 8th, West Ham were solid combining europe and ourselves and Newcastle will again spend vast amounts so they have to make sure they're solid enough to be in 12-14th range.
Benitez had a very easy fixture list start of the season, played Southampton, Norwich, Burnley, Watford all at home before end of October.
I did actually think Everton were going down after losing to Burnley in early April but they regrouped impressively and won 4 of their last 9 in the end.
Best-case scenario: 10 years midtable + new stadium.
They'll go down next season, Lampard won't make it to the WC break.
I really don't rate Lampard as a manager and would have him below Ole, who I think is absolutely awful. However, they weren't going to sack him at the end of the season, and he was always going to be there at the start of next season. I strongly believe he'll be sacked by Christmas, but maybe he'll prove everyone wrong...
Lampard can genuinely turn it around, definitely needs to be more pragmatic, seems to have a good grasp of their dressing room.
People forget that their not us or Chelsea, he doesn't need to be a title winning manager, just to keep them mid-table, preferably the high end of it.
People forget that their not us or Chelsea, he doesn't need to be a title winning manager, just to keep them mid-table, preferably the high end of it.
I’m not praising Benitez. I’m criticising Lampard. He’s a terrible manager.
Think you'll find the blame lies with the undercover Pool agent...
Benitez would have probably kept them up. His win percentage would have got them to 38 points. Safe enough.
Everton are a great club. They should aim higher than Lampard imho.
Meh, it’s a clear plus to praise him for tough wins. But he also lost or drew easier games. He’s bang average. A hill that I will die on. Really like Everton. They deserve better.
Im pretty sure Richarlison and DCL missed large spells for Benitez too so that probably had a big effect on that run of losses.
Not that I'm defending Benitez because he did a bad job but I don't believe Lampard deserves much praise for earning 1 more point than a manager with a record as bad as Benitez.
He took over a club in disarray and in free fall, a team that looked like they had downed tools and a fanbase fed up with the team, but he deserves no credit for arresting that slide and galvanising the players and the fans, securing some big wins on the way safety.
When Lampard took over there was injuries in everton defense and team had some of the toughest fixtures remaining. Lampard should be judged by what he will do in coming season with everton but he did a good job with them last season.
Many even said he was not a manager to save from relegation.But yet he did exactly that. If referees did their job properly he could even earn draws against liverpool and city.
He deserved all the praise for what he did but that's over last season itself. He need to make sure the home form for them to continue as well as create monstrous counter attack unit for away games. Everton have personalities to create a well oiled counter attacking team. Hope Lampard learnt the lesson from chelsea days and don't be stupid to create defensively naive team again.
Many even said he was not a manager to save from relegation.But yet he did exactly that. If referees did their job properly he could even earn draws against liverpool and city.
He deserved all the praise for what he did but that's over last season itself. He need to make sure the home form for them to continue as well as create monstrous counter attack unit for away games. Everton have personalities to create a well oiled counter attacking team. Hope Lampard learnt the lesson from chelsea days and don't be stupid to create defensively naive team again.
He deserves no more credit than the Burnley caretaker manager given the differences in squad quality relative to Everton, and then the likes of Burnley, Norwich and Watford.
New manager bounces are not exclusive to Lampard. They're almost a given these days.
I suspect he’s not a good manager but let’s see - full pre season and a transfer window of his own. Benitez would only have kept them up if we’re playing a computer game and ignoring the reality of the situation, he’d fully lost the dressing room and fans wanted him out. Easy to look at stats and make assumptions but it would be completely ignoring any context. Same reason Ole had to go, they were past the point of no return.
Best thing Everton could do now is hire Steve Cooper. They guy doesn't know how to put a foot wrong.
Can't use a new manager bounce to withhold credit though, especially considering the kind of situation the manager was walking into. The manager still deserves credit for making the right changes in certain areas, otherwise you can just get any random manager in to initiate this new manager bounce if that's all it takes. I feel like it's become a thing people just say now. People were saying it about Tuchel 9 months after he took over, in the early parts of last season.
United didn't a new manager bounce after Ole. Don't think Watford got one either, well I can't remember if they did. Norwich might have gotten a tiny, barely noticeable one, like a win and draw and that's it.
Someone actually did a study on it and found that the 'new manager bounce' effect was wholly nonexistent. It's a myth.
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Also, I am unsure why you think it's comparable to Uniteds managerial bounce (or lack of). We had 10 players or so in the squad mentally checked out and leaving key coaches /AMs out the door from Week 2.
If you want to compare, check out Burnley after they sacked Dyche (later than Lampards arrival) and were dead close to popping Everton to survival.
His rivals were Watford, Burnley and Norwich. What level of credit do you think he deserves to keep Everton up ahead of these lot?
Also, I am unsure why you think it's comparable to Uniteds managerial bounce (or lack of). We had 10 players or so in the squad mentally checked out and leaving key coaches /AMs out the door from Week 2.
If you want to compare, check out Burnley after they sacked Dyche (later than Lampards arrival) and were dead close to popping Everton to survival.
To the championship.Fingers crossed.
@VP89 It wasn't a direct comparison to United, just listing teams that had new managers. But anyway, you mention the context in United' situation, there was context around Everton's situation too that Lampard had to work with and resolve. He didn't just walk in and find a club in great condition ready to go. I distinctly remember saying at the time that I felt it was the wrong move for him precisely because Everton seemed like a toxic club from top to bottom and the atmosphere in and around the club was pretty nasty.
Really? Likes of Big Sam always seem to come in and win games quickly. Same for Pulis when he was doing a tour of bottom 6 prem teams not so long ago. Usually a bounce for 4-5 games and then things revert to type. Think it's just a simple case of majority of managers get sacked after facing and losing to most of top 8 and so new manager gets "easier" run of fixtures v bottom placed teams.
Gerrard with us a good example. We'd just lost five straight, sacked Dean Smith and he comes in and wins four of his first six games (with the two losses being against Liverpool and Man. City) We then revert to middling form for rest of the season.
Really Lampard didn't have that new manager bounce. In fact he won only one in his first five or six games.
That's not new manager bounce in any sense even if it's a thing as you said in case of your club but not at Everton. He did well to save them that's minimum expectation from him though many didn't even given him a chance.
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That’s less than what the current owners have put into the club.
I think Moshiri wants to cut ties now as his plan of what he wanted a football club to be was a dreamland operation. He was more interested in getting in big names and managers than actually creating a culture and legacy at the club. The man wanted instant success and has no clue how to actually run a football club from the top to bottom. Now that we are in a bit of a mess he clearly has no interest in taking the time and effort to regenerate us, especially now that he does not have the helping hand of Usmanov due to sanctions.
I don’t think it is a come and get me plea but he’s definitely made potential suitors aware we are open to selling and the new stadium on the horizon / the galvanised fans will be a lucrative opportunity for many people interested in purchasing a club.
I don’t think it is a come and get me plea but he’s definitely made potential suitors aware we are open to selling and the new stadium on the horizon / the galvanised fans will be a lucrative opportunity for many people interested in purchasing a club.
Has Poch been sacked by PSG yet? When it happens Everton should waiting to pounce.