Flowers was in the PFA team of the year in 94-95. Don't know if that means he was class that season or the voters were clueless.
Every team that won the league had a top class goalkeeper
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Djemba-Djemba
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We didn't have a top class keeper in 00, 01 or 03 but I get the point of the original post.
It is a worry.
It is a worry.
MrMarcello
In a well-ordered universe...
Barthez was pretty damn good in his first season, went downhill from there.We didn't have a top class keeper in 00, 01 or 03 but I get the point of the original post.
It is a worry.
Djemba-Djemba
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Yeah maybe just 00 and 03 then.Barthez was pretty damn good in his first season, went downhill from there.
02 and 03 Barthez was an absolute joke.
Tim Flowers was a good keeper and had an excellent few years at Southampton then Blackburn. Was one of the best in the league around that time.Flowers was in the PFA team of the year in 94-95. Don't know if that means he was class that season or the voters were clueless.
Would've been England's number one if he didnt have top quality like Nigel Martyn and David Seaman in front of him.
Keeper with a lot of bottle too..
The Cluck
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Barthez had his good moments but there were far too many bloopers thrown into the mix. That game against Arsenal at Highbury in 2001/02 where he gifted the match to them. The Ronaldo hat trick against Real Madrid was the end for him. He looked incredibly feeble in that game.
Robbie Boy
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I never took to Barthez, but one of my mates fecking loved him.
Rightnr
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Not this shit again. Can someone please take away Luckhurst's forum access?
mitchmouse
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A clown from start to finish, if you ask me! I have him down as one of United's poorest keeper in all the years I've been watching them (dating back to Alex Stepney)Barthez was pretty damn good in his first season, went downhill from there.
Polar
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We have top class goalkeepers, so I’m not worried.
Pogba's Barber
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Didn't we win the league in 2013 with DDG as our main keeper?
UNITED ACADEMY
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As long as the goalkeeper is solid (not making mistakes), doesn’t have to be top class and we have top class back four in front of the solid keeper then it’ll be fine. Fortunately, we have that top class back four now. Just need to make sure our keepers don’t make mistakes.
Ayoba
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Disagree. Case in point...
We won the league in 2000 with Mark Bosnich in goal and in 2003 with a combination of Barthez and Roy Carroll
We won the league in 2000 with Mark Bosnich in goal and in 2003 with a combination of Barthez and Roy Carroll
laughtersassassin
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We won't win the league with our Midfield either.
We still have holes in the squad. Our rebuilds simply take too long
We still have holes in the squad. Our rebuilds simply take too long
MrMarcello
In a well-ordered universe...
Gotta credit VDG for the 99-00 season as well, he had 11 starts in the league plus three sub-ons. Bosnich had 23 starts and Taibi the remaining four.Disagree. Case in point...
We won the league in 2000 with Mark Bosnich in goal and in 2003 with a combination of Barthez and Roy Carroll
mitchmouse
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Bozzie was actually a pretty good goalkeeper - he was unlucky that soon after he joined us, the back pass law changed and he was very poor with the ball at his feet. Different things are expected of keepers now and they clearly train differently from the "old" days. I do wonder how many other greats would have suffered the same way if the law had been changed as they were getting deep onto their careers (I have no idea whether, say, Gordon Banks or Bob Wilson could do what Neuer does)Disagree. Case in point...
We won the league in 2000 with Mark Bosnich in goal and in 2003 with a combination of Barthez and Roy Carroll
hellhunter
Eurofighter
I may be imagining things, but the back pass rule was introduced 92.Bozzie was actually a pretty good goalkeeper - he was unlucky that soon after he joined us, the back pass law changed and he was very poor with the ball at his feet. Different things are expected of keepers now and they clearly train differently from the "old" days. I do wonder how many other greats would have suffered the same way if the law had been changed as they were getting deep onto their careers (I have no idea whether, say, Gordon Banks or Bob Wilson could do what Neuer does)
Borys
Statistics Wizard
This is the single reason why I wouldn't put any money on us winning the league until we replace DDG, who is just average keeper at best these days.
With Varane joining I believe we will continue with De Gea in goal as we should lose significantly less goals from set pieces (or that's the idea) what is the biggest worry with Dave in goal. He is still a better shot stopper than Henderson (based on what I've seen last season, I can't tell what is his normal/top level as I've not seen much of him). We should't expect to face less shots than last season.
Anyway, yeah, I'm worried.
With Varane joining I believe we will continue with De Gea in goal as we should lose significantly less goals from set pieces (or that's the idea) what is the biggest worry with Dave in goal. He is still a better shot stopper than Henderson (based on what I've seen last season, I can't tell what is his normal/top level as I've not seen much of him). We should't expect to face less shots than last season.
Anyway, yeah, I'm worried.
UpWithRivers
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Its crazy we supposedly have 2 top keepers and cant decide between them but in reality there are much better keepers out there. I would sell them both and buy Oblak
As someone already mentioned the back pass rule came into effect in 1992. Bosnich joined in 1999.Bozzie was actually a pretty good goalkeeper - he was unlucky that soon after he joined us, the back pass law changed and he was very poor with the ball at his feet. Different things are expected of keepers now and they clearly train differently from the "old" days. I do wonder how many other greats would have suffered the same way if the law had been changed as they were getting deep onto their careers (I have no idea whether, say, Gordon Banks or Bob Wilson could do what Neuer does)
But yes to put it bluntly his kicking was shit. Some clearances couldn’t even reach the halfway line!
Apparently his fitness and stamina was a real issue too…
Apart from that TBF he was a good Premier League keeper.
Reminds me of Hugo Lloris. Agile and a tremendous shot-stopper. That 99/00 season he had some very good games in particular the man of the match performance in the Intercontinental Cup against Palmeiras and Real Madrid away.
Sky1981
Fending off the urge
You can have shite keeper and win stuff. Dudek, barcelona, etc.
The point is the sum of your back five total has to be good enough. Top GK helps adds total value. But that isnt a necessity.
The point is the sum of your back five total has to be good enough. Top GK helps adds total value. But that isnt a necessity.
He won it in his second season with us and there were many question marks over him at the time.He was a top keeper eight years ago.
He's not now.
Borys
Statistics Wizard
It isn't a necessity if you don't concede a lot of shots, but it's down to the whole team, not only back 4.You can have shite keeper and win stuff. Dudek, barcelona, etc.
The point is the sum of your back five total has to be good enough. Top GK helps adds total value. But that isnt a necessity.
For example, City conceded 65% of the shots we conceded (total number comparison), Liverpool 76%, and Chelsea 78%, Leicester 87%. That is a huge difference. We are on the level of Fulham, Southampton, Arsenal, and Wolves.
Sky1981
Fending off the urge
Off course you're right, by definition it's the whole team.It isn't a necessity if you don't concede a lot of shots, but it's down to the whole team, not only back 4.
For example, City conceded 65% of the shots we conceded (total number comparison), Liverpool 76%, and Chelsea 78%, Leicester 87%. That is a huge difference. We are on the level of Fulham, Southampton, Arsenal, and Wolves.
Schmeichel's Cartwheel
Correctly predicted Italy to win Euro 2020
For sure.Kasper Schmeichel top class?
Schmeichel's Cartwheel
Correctly predicted Italy to win Euro 2020
Would you rather Ramsdale or Johnstone? Pickford had an excellent tournament.If you ever want to debate Southgate's managerial credentials, he chose Pickford.
Robbie Boy
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Definitely not, for me. Good PL keeper along the lines of Given, Friedel, even Begovic at one point. That's a tier below the 'great' keepers of the PL era.For sure.
Oranges038
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Plus he was a massive coke head.As someone already mentioned the back pass rule came into effect in 1992. Bosnich joined in 1999.
But yes to put it bluntly his kicking was shit. Some clearances couldn’t even reach the halfway line!
Apparently his fitness and stamina was a real issue too…
Apart from that TBF he was a good Premier League keeper.
Reminds me of Hugo Lloris. Agile and a tremendous shot-stopper. That 99/00 season he had some very good games in particular the man of the match performance in the Intercontinental Cup against Palmeiras and Real Madrid away.
He was utter shite for Utd, particularly in the CL. He only played 23 league games, Utd went from him to Taibi in one season that and the Batistuta goal that was right down the middle, highlighted how shit he really was.
Swordsman
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Is De Gea still a top class goalkeeper ?…and we won’t win the league until we have one.
Discuss.
TrustInOle
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The golden age of England goalkeepers! Think it pretty much fell apart when Seaman hung his gloves up from international. Still have nightmares about Robinson then Hart, but to be fair to the kid, Pickford has shown his quality in and England shirt, even if he does have his shortcomings, I think he is the best since big old David!Tim Flowers was a good keeper and had an excellent few years at Southampton then Blackburn. Was one of the best in the league around that time.
Would've been England's number one if he didnt have top quality like Nigel Martyn and David Seaman in front of him.
Keeper with a lot of bottle too..
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DDG has declined, jury out on Henderson, Romero should have been retained, however, there is one GK in the prem who would get in any side
including Utds and his dad was a treble winning legend at our club, would love him at old trafford tbh, I do agree with the original post.
including Utds and his dad was a treble winning legend at our club, would love him at old trafford tbh, I do agree with the original post.
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De Gea will become better this season!Is De Gea still a top class goalkeeper ?
MrMarcello
In a well-ordered universe...
He got hurt early in the season, and I think there were concerns over his weight and social habits once he started training with the club. If memory serves, both Bosnich and VDG picked up significant/worrying injuries that August and SAF was forced into panic-signing Taibi, or go with two untested reserve types in Culkin and Rachubka.Plus he was a massive coke head.
He was utter shite for Utd, particularly in the CL. He only played 23 league games, Utd went from him to Taibi in one season that and the Batistuta goal that was right down the middle, highlighted how shit he really was.
James Peril
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Goalkeeper really isn’t close to being our biggest issue, but I guess the FIFA-generation see names and ratings instead of Team these days. We could have prime Schmeichel and Buffon at the back, but conceding early goals and playing attacking football without a clear plan or cohesion will destroy all hopes of glory. Neither de Gea or Henderson will be the reason why we end up 20 points behind Man City next year.
Man, I usually agree with almost everything you post, but De Gea as a keeper who had a few decent seasons before falling apart? He was world class for a 4-5 seasons! I still think he's pretty top quality nowadays, although I know that everyone will agree with taht.True. Although he did have a few decent seasons as a promising young goalkeeper, before completely falling apart.
A bit like David De Gea.
FattyFooty
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Barthez had some bloopers. But he was better than most people remember.Were they ‘top class’ before they won the league, or were they regarded as ‘top class’ afterwards because every team that has won the league has a top class goalkeeper?
Also, Barthez won two leagues with us and Bosnich won one.
noodlehair
"It's like..."
Wouldn't exactly call him top class. Maybe for part of his career but in 2003 he definitely wasn't. Ferguson got rid of him the end of that season after losing patience with him as I recall.Barthez had some bloopers. But he was better than most people remember.
criticalanalysis
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Those are interesting stats, where did you get them from?It isn't a necessity if you don't concede a lot of shots, but it's down to the whole team, not only back 4.
For example, City conceded 65% of the shots we conceded (total number comparison), Liverpool 76%, and Chelsea 78%, Leicester 87%. That is a huge difference. We are on the level of Fulham, Southampton, Arsenal, and Wolves.
Eternitiy
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De Gea is below average these days. Cannot believe how many United fans continue to rate him despite how poor he's been the past 3 years.
Henderson must be given an opportunity this season, if he doesn't succeed, then find a solution next year.
De Gea realistically should never play for United again. But those in charge of contract situations have created an unbelievable situation with de Gea.
Henderson must be given an opportunity this season, if he doesn't succeed, then find a solution next year.
De Gea realistically should never play for United again. But those in charge of contract situations have created an unbelievable situation with de Gea.
Borys
Statistics Wizard
Fbref.com, total number of shots (but you need to click "see stats against" or sth like that).Those are interesting stats, where did you get them from?