Everybody Stay Calm

KiD MoYeS

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Manchester United are improving by the season under Ole's management. This is true. He has earned the right to continue and develop the squad and fix what the previous three managers combined to create. The club is on course for a second successive season in the top four, something not done since Sir Alex Ferguson was the manager if I am not mistaken.

Manchester United may not return to winning titles under Ole. This is also true. Did anyone genuinely believe this current side could win the title? Even when they were top? Does anyone believe the squad is now title winning quality? Ole's contract is due to expire next year so we can rest assured knowing he will have been given the opportunity to prove himself as a title winner or not.

You can feel Ole is doing a good job without being certain he will be the manager to return titles to Old Trafford. But the club is still in transition, that much I know, and Ole has done a good job until now. Why can't we enjoy a club legend leading us in games without having to jump on his back with hashtags everytime a defender is weak, or a goalkeeper fails to claim a cross, or a forward doesn't break sweat.

Ole is the right man for right now. Time will tell whether Ole is the right man for the next step this team needs to take, but they are not there yet.

Everybody stay calm.
 

Superden

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periods of transition and projects. what a godforsaken world we do live in.
 

Solius

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Manchester United are improving by the season under Ole's management. This is true. He has earned the right to continue and develop the squad and fix what the previous three managers combined to create. The club is on course for a second successive season in the top four, something not done since Sir Alex Ferguson was the manager if I am not mistaken.

Manchester United may not return to winning titles under Ole. This is also true. Did anyone genuinely believe this current side could win the title? Even when they were top? Does anyone believe the squad is now title winning quality? Ole's contract is due to expire next year so we can rest assured knowing he will have been given the opportunity to prove himself as a title winner or not.

You can feel Ole is doing a good job without being certain he will be the manager to return titles to Old Trafford. But the club is still in transition, that much I know, and Ole has done a good job until now. Why can't we enjoy a club legend leading us in games without having to jump on his back with hashtags everytime a defender is weak, or a goalkeeper fails to claim a cross, or a forward doesn't break sweat.

Ole is the right man for right now. Time will tell whether Ole is the right man for the next step this team needs to take, but they are not there yet.

Everybody stay calm.
Nah mate we need to listen to everyone on here because they know better in every aspect of the game.
 

Annihilate Now!

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I AM CALM... you're the irrational one.

We are 100% not going to sack Ole before the end of the season, so yeh, just got to see what happens.
 

MU655

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Are they improving enough, though? I mean we could end second with only a six-point improvement this season. I can't help but think most of the 'improvement' comes from the collapse of the opposition.

2016/17 - 76 points need for top four (86 needed for second)

2017/18 - 75 points needed for top four (81 needed for second)

2018/19 - 66 points (6th) - 71 points needed for top four (97 needed for second)

2019/20 - 66 points (3rd) - 66 points needed for top four (81 needed for second)

2020/21 (Extrapolated) - 72 points (2nd) - 63 points needed for top four (72 needed for second)

Is it only me that sees a pattern here? Despite only gaining 6 points, we jump from 6th to 2nd. How much of that is actually due to us? Or is it actually that we are being made to look better due to failing opposition?

People have compared him to Klopp, but he made a 16 point improvement in his second season, from 60 points to 76 with no major collapse from competitors. In fact, the threshold for the top four went up from 66 points in 15/16 to 76 in 16/17. And still, he managed to get top four with Liverpool.

Honestly, I don't think what we are doing is enough. We are relying too much on the opposition remaining weak, but it may not always be that way. Are you confident that we can sustain our position if the opposition improve? I'm not.
 

JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

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Genuinely wondering if his back room staff could do with a new defence coach because the back line turn to jelly multiple times per game
 

KiD MoYeS

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Are they improving enough, though? I mean we could end second with only a six-point improvement this season. I can't help but think most of the 'improvement' comes from the collapse of the opposition.

2016/17 - 76 points need for top four (86 needed for second)

2017/18 - 75 points needed for top four (81 needed for second)

2018/19 - 66 points (6th) - 71 points needed for top four (97 needed for second)

2019/20 - 66 points (3rd) - 66 points needed for top four (81 needed for second)

2020/21 (Extrapolated) - 72 points (2nd) - 63 points needed for top four (72 needed for second)

Is it only me that sees a pattern here? Despite only gaining 6 points, we jump from 6th to 2nd. How much of that is actually due to us? Or is it actually that we are being made to look better due to failing opposition?

People have compared him to Klopp, but he made a 16 point improvement in his second season, from 60 points to 76 with no major collapse from competitors. In fact, the threshold for the top four went up from 66 points in 15/16 to 76 in 16/17. And still, he managed to get top four with Liverpool.

Honestly, I don't think what we are doing is enough. We are relying too much on the opposition remaining weak, but it may not always be that way. Are you confident that we can sustain our position if the opposition improve? I'm not.
I wouldn't compare him to Klopp because it remains to be seen if he can win titles.

Also not a big fan of the argument centered around opposition being poor as I think this can be used for any season? United only finished third last season because Chelsea et. al were poor. You can go further back, United only won the league in 2012/13 because City were poor.
 

Deery

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You’re not exactly staying calm if you’re doubting the manager’s ability..
 

Judas

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I AM CALM... you're the irrational one.

We are 100% not going to sack Ole before the end of the season, so yeh, just got to see what happens.
Basically this is where I am. I'm not going ballistic, seen this sort of run of form one too many times to lose my head over it. Ole is very much safe till the summer, as he should be. We'll see where we sit when the seasons finished. A lot more games to play, it really could go many different ways.
 

Zlatan 7

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If Ole gets sacked before the end of the season I’d honestly just laugh and finally give in that the club is fecked
 

UnofficialDevil

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I'm not anti Scottish, I just wanted Moyes out.
Couldn’t this just be in the Ole discussion thread? He hasn’t earned the right, quite the contrary in two years here and close to 300m spent he hasn’t even achieved what Mournino did, he has spent 150m on the defence and made it worse than it was, hasn’t won a single thing and wont this year either gets outclassed by teams that are about to be relegated and in two and half years here hasn’t managed to get our team to attack with any kind of pattern other than get the ball to the front four and let them do whatever they want.
 

KiD MoYeS

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You’re not exactly staying calm if you’re doubting the manager’s ability..
I'm doubting the longterm and not the short-term, but I don't think anyone knows if Ole is the man to being number twenty-one. So why lose sleep over it? Particularly when his contract is due to expire? That's my point. Just enjoy the ride under a club legend.
 

KiD MoYeS

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Couldn’t this just be in the Ole discussion thread? He hasn’t earned the right, quite the contrary in two years here and close to 300m spent he hasn’t even achieved what Mournino did, he has spent 150m on the defence and made it worse than it was, hasn’t won a single thing and wont this year either gets outclassed by teams that are about to be relegated and in two and half years here hasn’t managed to get our team to attack with any kind of pattern other than get the ball to the front four and let them do whatever they want.
This isn't an Ole out or an Ole in conversation. It's an Ole in for right now but only God knows, as Ronaldo put it, in the longterm. Why pull your hair out about a club legend managing us.
 

SER19

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Are they improving enough, though? I mean we could end second with only a six-point improvement this season. I can't help but think most of the 'improvement' comes from the collapse of the opposition.

2016/17 - 76 points need for top four (86 needed for second)

2017/18 - 75 points needed for top four (81 needed for second)

2018/19 - 66 points (6th) - 71 points needed for top four (97 needed for second)

2019/20 - 66 points (3rd) - 66 points needed for top four (81 needed for second)

2020/21 (Extrapolated) - 72 points (2nd) - 63 points needed for top four (72 needed for second)

Is it only me that sees a pattern here? Despite only gaining 6 points, we jump from 6th to 2nd. How much of that is actually due to us? Or is it actually that we are being made to look better due to failing opposition?

People have compared him to Klopp, but he made a 16 point improvement in his second season, from 60 points to 76 with no major collapse from competitors. In fact, the threshold for the top four went up from 66 points in 15/16 to 76 in 16/17. And still, he managed to get top four with Liverpool.

Honestly, I don't think what we are doing is enough. We are relying too much on the opposition remaining weak, but it may not always be that way. Are you confident that we can sustain our position if the opposition improve? I'm not.
I really don't see the value in comparing season to season points. It's broadly useful but beyond that makes no sense every season is different. We won the treble with I think 78 points. If we hit that this season should we compare the two teams? In fact it was less points than the year mourinho finished second.

Every single season is different and we are patently twice the team we were when he took over though its still fair to wonder if he can catch team billions. Or anybody, in a sustained way, for that matter.
 

Deery

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Couldn’t this just be in the Ole discussion thread? He hasn’t earned the right, quite the contrary in two years here and close to 300m spent he hasn’t even achieved what Mournino did, he has spent 150m on the defence and made it worse than it was, hasn’t won a single thing and wont this year either gets outclassed by teams that are about to be relegated and in two and half years here hasn’t managed to get our team to attack with any kind of pattern other than get the ball to the front four and let them do whatever they want.
You missed the point it’s to stay calm..
 

Mindhunter

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The question is whether we are getting the most out of the resources at our disposal. No, we are not. It's not about winning the league but about using what we have efficiently.

We aren't doing that at the moment by any stretch of imagination. You don't need years of transition and investment to beat Sheffield United and West Brom. We are devoid of ideas when teams sit back against us and we are trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. We often start games slow and don't kick into action until we concede a goal so motivation is also a problem.

These things can't be solved simply by "time" and "investment". I am not calling for Ole's head but to simply brush these under the carpet is as egregious as asking for his sacking.
 

Revan

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Are they improving enough, though? I mean we could end second with only a six-point improvement this season. I can't help but think most of the 'improvement' comes from the collapse of the opposition.

2016/17 - 76 points need for top four (86 needed for second)

2017/18 - 75 points needed for top four (81 needed for second)

2018/19 - 66 points (6th) - 71 points needed for top four (97 needed for second)

2019/20 - 66 points (3rd) - 66 points needed for top four (81 needed for second)

2020/21 (Extrapolated) - 72 points (2nd) - 63 points needed for top four (72 needed for second)

Is it only me that sees a pattern here? Despite only gaining 6 points, we jump from 6th to 2nd. How much of that is actually due to us? Or is it actually that we are being made to look better due to failing opposition?

People have compared him to Klopp, but he made a 16 point improvement in his second season, from 60 points to 76 with no major collapse from competitors. In fact, the threshold for the top four went up from 66 points in 15/16 to 76 in 16/17. And still, he managed to get top four with Liverpool.

Honestly, I don't think what we are doing is enough. We are relying too much on the opposition remaining weak, but it may not always be that way. Are you confident that we can sustain our position if the opposition improve? I'm not.
People are kind of dumb. Klopp in his equivalent season reached UCL's final, Ole couldn't pass the group stage.

(also the small fact that Klopp had won before two league titles in a top league and reached another UCL).
 

R'hllor

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Dunno who is not calm, people just calling out shit they see and watch.
 

KiD MoYeS

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Dunno who is not calm, people just calling out shit they see and watch.
Well there has been a number of racial abuse incidents, for one. And you only need to dip your toes in any of the Ole threads to see people losing their mind.
 

Deery

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I'm doubting the longterm and not the short-term, but I don't think anyone knows if Ole is the man to being number twenty-one. So why lose sleep over it? Particularly when his contract is due to expire? That's my point. Just enjoy the ride under a club legend.
I particularly mind having Ole and a United back room staff, but I agree we’ll just see where it takes us.

Things better F-ING improve though or I’ll....
 

MU655

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I wouldn't compare him to Klopp because it remains to be seen if he can win titles.

Also not a big fan of the argument centered around opposition being poor as I think this can be used for any season? United only finished third last season because Chelsea et. al were poor. You can go further back, United only won the league in 2012/13 because City were poor.
Points for a position tend to fall into a certain bracket. 72 points are far below the average for finishing second, and so it is doubtful if it is sustainable. And so, I think finishing second should not garner any signs of improvement.

Top four tends to fall into a certain bracket also with two notable dives to 66 points, but mostly it operates over 70. So, we would usually only be scraping top four with these points totals. Other seasons, even that might not be enough.

In 2012/13, we still ended with 89 points, which is pretty consistent with title winners.

Here, I am talking about anomalies. Finishing second with 72 points is an anomaly, and it's usually more around the 4th place position.
 

KiD MoYeS

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The likes of Di Matteo mustn't have got the memo re the need for a long transition period or just turning up to have fun watching a club legend in charge.
Chelsea have booted another club legend since then. It's almost like they're a completely different club with a different ethos to Manchester United.
 

The holy trinity 68

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I wouldn't compare him to Klopp because it remains to be seen if he can win titles.

Also not a big fan of the argument centered around opposition being poor as I think this can be used for any season? United only finished third last season because Chelsea et. al were poor. You can go further back, United only won the league in 2012/13 because City were poor.
He won 2 titles with Molde, albeit in a low-quality league but Rosenborg is the biggest and best club in Norway and Ole beat them to back to back titles. They were also on course to win a 3rd and 4th before he left to manage Cardiff and then caretake United, they won it again in them 2 seasons.

Molde never won the title before him in 100 years and then he won them their first 2, putting in the foundations for the managers after him to win titles 3 and 4.

He knows how to win titles just not at the highest level.
 

KiD MoYeS

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Points for a position tend to fall into a certain bracket. 72 points are far below the average for finishing second, and so it is doubtful if it is sustainable.

Top four tends to fall into a certain bracket also with two notable dives to 66 points, but mostly it operates over 70. So, we would usually only be scraping top four with these points totals.

In 2012/13, we still ended with 89 points, which is pretty consistent with title winners.

Here, I am talking about anomalies. Finishing second with 72 points is an anomaly, and it's usually more around the 4th place position.
Thing is, we now have a top six vying for four places and it is more competitive than ever.
 

KiD MoYeS

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He won 2 titles with Molde, albeit in a low-quality league but Rosenborg is the biggest and best club in Norway and Ole beat them to back to back titles. They were also on course to win a 3rd and 4th before he left to manage Cardiff and then caretake United, they won it again in them 2 seasons.

Molde never won the title before him in 100 years and then he won them their first 2, putting in the foundations for the managers after him to win titles 3 and 4.

He knows how to win titles just not at the highest level.
Fair point, guess I find it a bit of a reach to compare his title wins in Norway (which are a great achievement) with showing the credentials to deliver the big one.
 

pocco

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Chelsea have booted another club legend since then. It's almost like they're a completely different club with a different ethos to Manchester United.
Whose approach is right though? We're literally the only club in recent years that stick by managers that are failing. Look at the likes of them, Liverpool, Bayern, City pre-Pep etc. They all won titles following change. Lampard was failing and it was clear to see. Historically, we've only not been like that because we had the best manager going for a quarter of a century.
 

el3mel

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Well, most managers that I wanted here are gone so I believe Ole is staying for next season anyway, regardless of what happens this season. Of course, if we don't win anything both this season and next one, I don't think we'll renew his contract. Let's see what will happen.
 

KiD MoYeS

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Whose approach is right though? We're literally the only club in recent years that stick by managers that are failing. Look at the likes of them, Liverpool, Bayern, City pre-Pep etc. They all won titles following change. Lampard was failing and it was clear to see. Historically, we've only not been like that because we had the best manager going for a quarter of a century.
I guess my point is that we don't know which approach is right. I appreciate it looks unlikely right now, but who is to say we are not that far off winning the title under Ole with a few adjustments?
 
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He will be safe providing he gets top 4. The ambition isn’t there to win trophies. It’s all about the CL money on the bottom line. We could go 10 years without a trophy, as long as he gets top 4 he’ll be kept on. He’s cheap (compared to top managers) & he publicly praises the owners & Woodward. The players get an easy ride too, hence why they raise their game whenever it’s looking bleak for him. Everybody wins with Ole in charge, except the fans.
 

The Corinthian

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Who's shown any real consistency this season? Other than Man City, who are the exception and not the norm, no other team has. We're 2nd at this stage in the season - let's take each game as it comes, still lots to play for.
 

pocco

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I guess my point is that we don't know which approach is right. I appreciate it looks unlikely right now, but who is to say we are not that far off winning the title under Ole with a few adjustments?
A few adjustments like what though? Signing Grealish, Sancho, top CB, top DM and a seasoned CF? These are the changes others are suggesting Ole needs and, quite frankly, it is outrageous. If we made those signings then I'd expect us to compete on every front. It would literally be the best team in the world right now. And by far the most expensive. I think that is a ridiculous bar that some are trying to set before Ole can be judged - but I know they are hoping, deep down, that we'll buy Ole to success.

As a club you sometimes have to be brave and make a change, because there is always a "what if?".