Some of you actually hate Ole and it shows.
Everybody Stay Calm
- Thread starter KiD MoYeS
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
It’s not about staying calm or not. It’s about seeing such poor performances from a side with so much talent and worrying about them being coached properly.
One side sees obvious progress and the other sees a bump caused by one world class player.
The fact that there is a divide means nothing is definitive and that is what the concern is. Stick with him, and possibly waste another two years of investment and coaching with young players.
It’s a concern and, while I don’t understand bile or vitriol, I absolutely understand concern and worry.
One side sees obvious progress and the other sees a bump caused by one world class player.
The fact that there is a divide means nothing is definitive and that is what the concern is. Stick with him, and possibly waste another two years of investment and coaching with young players.
It’s a concern and, while I don’t understand bile or vitriol, I absolutely understand concern and worry.
I'm incredibly calm.
And I want him out (at the end of the season).
And I want him out (at the end of the season).
We had no right to be 1st when we were after the summer we had and if this summer is a repeat we have no right to be up there next season either
I still think you're being unfair in how you're comparing. Did United improve regardless of how Liverpool did? You have to look at United alone for the most part and we are clearly clearly far better than November 2018 when he took over. I think many posters are making the point that there is just no point comparing to city. They've changed manager several times and have just gone on winning titles and are in a place now where their current manager has been backed to the tune of 1 billion on top of one of the best squads in the league at the time. I've made the point elsewhere and pretend United don't exist, pretty much no team can compete. They've made a mockery of the league Cup which they can win with a second string most seasons. Barring the odd year off if this continues we will look at City winning 7 or 8 of every 10 titles. The gap is just growing and growing every year.
Why would anyone hate a club legend ?First questioned ask the board.
In terms of Woodward learning the most recent transfer window shows that he hasn’t leant anything. Chasing Sancho all season instead of an alternative, getting Cavani and Telles last minute, not strengthening our first team while teams around us got the players they wanted (and they weren’t cheap).
I am also not convinced that Nagelsmann is ready for such a big job yet. You seem to be. You would probably give him time, whereas I would rather give the guy time who is already here and is well placed for a 2nd top 4 finish in a row - for the first time since SAF left - with a still young and exciting team. Yes I know we are Man United and should have higher expectations. But if just having high expectations would be enough then we would have won 4 league titles in the last 7 years.
Really? Who had the most clear chances to win the game against West Brom?
Our world class striker could of not been on the pitch if wanted, it wouldn’t matter the ball never reached him, where as West Brom’s striker was bullying the worlds most expensive defender, I’d call that outclassed.
I really wanted a thread named after a Run the Jewels song so I'm happy I got that also.
You really can’t see any area of improvement under Ole? From the point at which Mourinho left to where we are now is a feckin chasm.
From the negative boring sideways football of LVG to where we are now, top scorers in the league, is a feckin chasm.
From Moyes... nuff said.
Cleared deadwood that many wanted gone
Recruitement is far improved
Attacking intent far improved
General attacking linkup & movement improved
Demographic for recruitment revamped
Players who have improved under Ole;
Pogba
Shaw
Greenwood
Rashford
Martial (until this lazy arse season from him)
Fred
McTominay
Probably more.
We are clearly far more competitive than we have been since SAF left. We’ve shown we can beat the best teams and with the addition of Bruno are now able to break teams down.
Consistency is the key and the next step, if it’s not there once the rebuild is complete then I would reevaluate.
We are three top players away from competing, importantly we need some of those players to be leaders, we have none in the team and this accounts for our inconsistency and weak mentality on the pitch when the pressure is on.
I’m able to see these things far outweigh the negatives and some of the above he’s implemented for long term reward rather than instant short term results. For the overall better of the club, he always puts the club first.
If you look hard enough after patterns, you find them.
Perhaps Premier League is a different league today compared with 2016-2019? Increased quality = tighter competition.
I can turn your argument the other way. We have been able to sustain or improved our position even though the opposition has improved.
Loved him as a player, hate him as our coach yeah especially after the drivel he comes with in his post match pressers and the cowardly way he sets up the team against poor opposition with two DMs
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His undoing will be his defensive buys. Got it wrong right from the start with Maguire and AWB. He wants us to "play higher up the pitch" and he buys the slowest cb available and a full back that can't attack.
The Bruno signing was great, the one he got extremely right. So right that I wonder if he fought against it and pushed for Longstaff or some other British "talent". Joking of course but only half joking.
So far he edges Mourinho, in that he actually trusts young players a lot more. And he's much better that LVG and Moyes. So he's the best of the worst. But I'm still not seeing good football.
The Bruno signing was great, the one he got extremely right. So right that I wonder if he fought against it and pushed for Longstaff or some other British "talent". Joking of course but only half joking.
So far he edges Mourinho, in that he actually trusts young players a lot more. And he's much better that LVG and Moyes. So he's the best of the worst. But I'm still not seeing good football.
Still have much to play for. Get second and the FA cup and that's some real progress. Don't be too reactionary.
1 pt against Sheffield and Wba
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This.
It's very important we win one this season to silence all the 'bottlers FC' talk.
You can have your opinions of him as a manager but how any United fan could dislike Ole is beyond me. Imagine hating this man.
I don't see this happening the glazers have been patient with Ole as far I'm concerned especially considering how quickly Lampard got sacked but in turn has benefited them. If Ole got sacked before the season's end he only has himself to blame it's who's appointed after where the club deserves criticism. However I don't see Solskjaer being relived unless we finish outside the top 4.
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fear not, I’ve no doubt there’ll be a huge amount lining up to criticise the decision whoever it turns out to be.
Who do you think should come in and replace him if you don’t mind me asking?
This is why we have developed a clear policy over the last couple of seasons of bringing in younger players and bolstering the Academy.
We should have been doing this even before SAF retired but we made a hash of it and never adequately replaced key players
Obviously that's awful, but, to be fair, I don't think that applies to anyone on here.
Dont think even those hard core Ole out maniacs hate him. He never gave a core reason for such emotion, at worst he might annoy them and they dont rate him one bit but thats about it. Might be wrong
Sack manager
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Success
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Success
We were one signing away from this issue never coming up: Haaland. Seeing what a real CF can do in Cavani’s ghost’s cameos, if we had Haaland we would be competing on every front, even with our wobbly rejects in defense and Fred the lost sheep in midfield. One signing and Ole’s frailties would be glossed over.
Stop being hysterical.
Before the season I said our target should be finishing top 4 without much of a struggle, and then winning a trophy. We made it to one semi final, but have the Europa League and FA Cup to fight for, along with being 2nd. So yeah, we're on course. We've lost a hit of form now so everyone is dramatic because we were temporarily top of the league even if we were never going to stay there with City's form.
Comparing points year after year is dumb and never works. Do people really think United 1999 is the worst premier league winner ever, because they didn't even reach 80 points? Of course not. So stop the year on year point comparisons. They're pointless. So many factors come in play to affect that.
When it comes to Ole being manager short term and long term, you have to look at both short term goals and long term goals and see how they are lining up, and if not, why not. Short term, like I said, top 4 without too much struggle, a cup competition. So on course there. Long term, we are seeing year on year progression (first time being top at the halfway point of a season since Sir Alex), and then reasons why we fell off are because we have some pretty clear gaps in our squad. We haven't addressed our hole on the right wing for 5+ years. None of our centerback partnerships really work well or are balanced, and then we haven't had a proper holding midfielder in a long time either.
Nobody is flawless from a transfers perspective. Ole has done well in the market but of course could have done better. I'm confident that Maguire will still be an important part in our next step, but it'll just be a partner that suits him more and that balances us better. Ole brought a good level out of our midfielders, but ultimately Fred and McTominay aren't good enough to be starters. Could be as simple as signing a top DM like Ndidi to partner Pogba and Bruno, and then addressing the hole on the right wing with Sancho and I would expect us to challenge for the title. It's all incremental improvements, but we aren't going to win the title, regardless of manager, until we fix the right wing, fix the CB position and fix the 2 midfielders behind Bruno. Maybe some of the answers are at the club already, maybe we keep Pogba, sign 1 DM, maybe Diallo is a wonderkid ready to step up already, maybe Tuanzebe is the perfect partner to Maguire and it's sorted. Things don't tend to work like that though. Diallo may be promising, but we need a RW like Sancho regardless as Diallo is so young and unproven. We need a CB because all apart from Maguire are always injured and average when they play. We need a DM because the only DM we have (Matic) is past it, and then Pogba is likely off in the summer. The smartest thing we could do this summer would be to sign Sancho to sort out our attack, and then either sort out DM or CB, with some RB depth signed. And then the following January or summer sign a striker to replace Cavani, and the other DM or CB. That's what the realistic plan should be. Doesn't matter the manager. You need the personnel before you can challenge and win the title. To challenge, we can challenge properly with Sancho and a top CB partnership. To win it, we'll need to sort out the midfield.
Comparing points year after year is dumb and never works. Do people really think United 1999 is the worst premier league winner ever, because they didn't even reach 80 points? Of course not. So stop the year on year point comparisons. They're pointless. So many factors come in play to affect that.
When it comes to Ole being manager short term and long term, you have to look at both short term goals and long term goals and see how they are lining up, and if not, why not. Short term, like I said, top 4 without too much struggle, a cup competition. So on course there. Long term, we are seeing year on year progression (first time being top at the halfway point of a season since Sir Alex), and then reasons why we fell off are because we have some pretty clear gaps in our squad. We haven't addressed our hole on the right wing for 5+ years. None of our centerback partnerships really work well or are balanced, and then we haven't had a proper holding midfielder in a long time either.
Nobody is flawless from a transfers perspective. Ole has done well in the market but of course could have done better. I'm confident that Maguire will still be an important part in our next step, but it'll just be a partner that suits him more and that balances us better. Ole brought a good level out of our midfielders, but ultimately Fred and McTominay aren't good enough to be starters. Could be as simple as signing a top DM like Ndidi to partner Pogba and Bruno, and then addressing the hole on the right wing with Sancho and I would expect us to challenge for the title. It's all incremental improvements, but we aren't going to win the title, regardless of manager, until we fix the right wing, fix the CB position and fix the 2 midfielders behind Bruno. Maybe some of the answers are at the club already, maybe we keep Pogba, sign 1 DM, maybe Diallo is a wonderkid ready to step up already, maybe Tuanzebe is the perfect partner to Maguire and it's sorted. Things don't tend to work like that though. Diallo may be promising, but we need a RW like Sancho regardless as Diallo is so young and unproven. We need a CB because all apart from Maguire are always injured and average when they play. We need a DM because the only DM we have (Matic) is past it, and then Pogba is likely off in the summer. The smartest thing we could do this summer would be to sign Sancho to sort out our attack, and then either sort out DM or CB, with some RB depth signed. And then the following January or summer sign a striker to replace Cavani, and the other DM or CB. That's what the realistic plan should be. Doesn't matter the manager. You need the personnel before you can challenge and win the title. To challenge, we can challenge properly with Sancho and a top CB partnership. To win it, we'll need to sort out the midfield.
- 18/19 - Ole takes over half way through the season well off the pace
- 2019-20 - fight for top 4 and qualify
- 20/21 - firmly cement top 4, win a trophy
- 21/22 - challenge for the title but fall short, but challenge seriously in the CL too (ideally continue winning trophies)
- 22/23 - win the big competitions, sustain that level in future years
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My worry is that our good results earlier in the season were not reflective of the performances.
We rode our luck so often and they're now averaging out.
We rode our luck so often and they're now averaging out.
If we’re still fannying about trying to get a Top 4 on the last day like last year then there should be some questions about him long term.
It feels like almost every game the past few months is the same apart from Leeds and Soton home games. Start a game like we’ve just woken up, go behind a goal or sustain massive attacking pressure, then we wake up and score goals, fail to kill the game off with shit finishing and cling on until the final whistle when the opposition can smell weakness. Those types of games do happen but not every week or every three days.
It feels like almost every game the past few months is the same apart from Leeds and Soton home games. Start a game like we’ve just woken up, go behind a goal or sustain massive attacking pressure, then we wake up and score goals, fail to kill the game off with shit finishing and cling on until the final whistle when the opposition can smell weakness. Those types of games do happen but not every week or every three days.
Agreed.
I think there are clearly FAR better managers out there for sure.
But on the other hand I am quietly impressed with the job Ole is doing. Yes we are inconsistent, but he has cleared much of the deadwood, bought well and we now have a young and hungry squad. We are still massively more consistent than every other team bar City... You don't just 'fall' into second place by fluke, especially after over half a season.
Therefore I think it would be huge mistake not to stick with Ole until the end of the season, and most likely next season too. Then see how we sit... Personally I would be keeping a close eye on Brendan Rodgers as the best possible candidate to take over.
But on the other hand I am quietly impressed with the job Ole is doing. Yes we are inconsistent, but he has cleared much of the deadwood, bought well and we now have a young and hungry squad. We are still massively more consistent than every other team bar City... You don't just 'fall' into second place by fluke, especially after over half a season.
Therefore I think it would be huge mistake not to stick with Ole until the end of the season, and most likely next season too. Then see how we sit... Personally I would be keeping a close eye on Brendan Rodgers as the best possible candidate to take over.
I've absolutely no idea. I wanted Pochettino, but he's no longer an option.
I can outline the characteristics I would look for, but not give a name. Unlikely myself, United are supposed to have people to should be able to focus full time on identifying the right man to take us forward.
If his first two signings were half the price he'd have done a good transitional job all in all. But it's a real 130m ball and chain he's leaving behind when he goes, which should be at the end of his contract.
Brendan Rodgers should be top candidate by miles and miles. Look at his track record and success everywhere he has been. He would have our current team clear at the top of the league, of that I am convinced.
I’d say it’s more to do with the fact transfers are so damn expensive nowadays and we can’t afford to be dipping into the transfer market as much as we have been, so are looking to unearth special talents instead. It’s a risky procedure as we’ve seen with Chelsea they bought up all the talent around Europe and it didn’t exactly go to plan, but I like the idea of bringing youth players through it is synonymous with the club’s ethos.
You have absolutely nailed it pal and lets not forget the Utd old boys club alongside him who are also a massive part of the reason we look utterly dreadful in a tactical sense most of the time. Like you say he will be kept on whilst top 4 is continually secured and is cheap as chips for the club which suits them down to the ground. Yeah it's no coincidence that when the Poch rumours were rife back in November we suddenly pulled out a performance because they feared someone coming in who would be tougher on them.
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Remaining calm is not the issue. But there is something of a psychological torment most of us are feeling that despite all the advantages United have over clubs like, say, Leicester City and Spurs that we’ve consistently underperformed while they have consistently overperformed.
I understand patience, but these repeated false dawns are getting harder and harder to bear.
I understand patience, but these repeated false dawns are getting harder and harder to bear.
That's why I don't agree with people stating we're losing our form, we were only getting the result but the performances were lacking.
We had a player pull something special against Burnley and Fulham a month ago and were lucky against Wolves a bit earlier.
That's 3 out of 5 games before we supposedly lost our form against Sheffield United, the other 2 were against Aston Villa where we needed a last-second block to get the win, and the Liverpool game which was a bit of a borefest against a depleted side.