F1 2021 Season

ArjenIsM3

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He basically went from 5/6th to 2nd because of the rain.
And? Saying this has somehow sealed the title for Max is a load of bollocks. Extremely premature at best.
 

Adam-Utd

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Define handled the rain. I guess decision making and keeping your head is a huge part of driving in the rain, but in terms of actual driving skill, it’s impossible to tell over that short of a distance.
ask paul? i’m not the one making the statement.
Because the crucial part is securing the points safely. There's literally no point in keeping so close to Norris in the rain when all it takes is a bad slip and your race could be over.

being fast is not all it takes for race craft.
sure they could have easily settled for 2nd, but he was going for the win clearly, there’s a big difference.

Hamilton himself just said he’d do the same thing, he didn’t want to come in but the team told him heavy rain. mclaren didn’t tell norris.

3 laps to go with slight rain, he was easily going to win. the team gambled and it didn’t pay off.
 

The Hilton

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read it properly.

some smart ass said hamilton handled the rain better even though he lost time.

we all know hamilton is good in the rain but norris deserves credit. he didn’t lose this because he’s bad in the rain - if anything he was too good today.

maybe, im no weatherman.

the point is though it was always a much easier decision for mercedes being 2nd. they pitted as he couldn’t get passed him on track, so cemented their 2nd place just in case.

it just so happened that it got a lot heavier literally that lap.

No idea why some donuts in this thread are trying to blame the driver in that situation.
Norris has to take some fault, for ignoring the call, but Mercedes definitely communicated the upcoming rain much better than Mclaren did.

It's one of those unfortunate things, he'll learn and hopefully come back to get the win his ability merits.
 

Hephaestus

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Out of the remaining tracks, does anyone know which ones will favour Mercedes and which ones Red Bull?
As others have said, Mexico and Brazil are gimmies for Red Bull (think Austria), they're likely faster in Turkey as well, looked faster than Mercedes in Abu Dhabi last year - though Abu Dhabi is usually a Merc track. US might be a toss up but last time we had a competitive championship Mercedes were the 3rd fastest team there. That leaves Saudi Arabia and possibly Qatar and don't know much about either track - Saudi Arabia has been described as a fast street track so probably Red Bull but it might not be as one-sided as Monaco. Gonna be very tricky for Hamilton to win from here with only a 2 point cushion but this season has been batshit so far so god knows.
For a long time, I still don't think it's close to the spygate year thread that got bad.
Jesus, I can imagine that was toxic as hell. Guessing it was as bad as basically any thread in the United forum right now.

Think that was the first enjoyable race at this track.
 

Adam-Utd

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Norris has to take some fault, for ignoring the call, but Mercedes definitely communicated the upcoming rain much better than Mclaren did.

It's one of those unfortunate things, he'll learn and hopefully come back to get the win his ability merits.
yet again, he ignored it as he was happy with the situation. they didn’t tell him heavier rain was coming.

hamilton also ignored it as he was happy with the situation. the team then told him heavier rain was coming so he boxed.

can you see the small difference? this isn’t on the drivers.
 

pauldyson1uk

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yet again, he ignored it as he was happy with the situation. they didn’t tell him heavier rain was coming.

hamilton also ignored it as he was happy with the situation. the team then told him heavier rain was coming so he boxed.

can you see the small difference? this isn’t on the drivers.
I did not know Lewis also ignored and the team told him to come in, did not see or hear it must have missed that bit.
OK down to McLaren, should have told him yo come in.
Makes my critique of Norris a bit harsh.
 

elmo

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I did not know Lewis also ignored and the team told him to come in, did not see or hear it must have missed that bit.
OK down to McLaren, should have told him yo come in.
Makes my critique of Norris a bit harsh.
He was told to come in a lap earlier but he ignored them when he saw Lando wasn't going in.
 

elmo

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ask paul? i’m not the one making the statement.

sure they could have easily settled for 2nd, but he was going for the win clearly, there’s a big difference.

Hamilton himself just said he’d do the same thing, he didn’t want to come in but the team told him heavy rain. mclaren didn’t tell norris.

3 laps to go with slight rain, he was easily going to win. the team gambled and it didn’t pay off.
There's a lot of difference between keeping it safe and not going for the win.

He trusted that Lando would screw up eventually and all he needed was to be within position. All that talk about Lando extending the lead in the rain is bollocks because Lando was trying to push in the rain despite having the wrong tires. That's not race craft, that's stupidity. Unless the rain stopped, the situation would only get worse for Lando.
 

Dan_F

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How F1 would it be to change the regulations just as we have competitive cars, and then end up with one team miles ahead next year.
 

Adam-Utd

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There's a lot of difference between keeping it safe and not going for the win.

He trusted that Lando would screw up eventually and all he needed was to be within position. All that talk about Lando extending the lead in the rain is bollocks because Lando was trying to push in the rain despite having the wrong tires. That's not race craft, that's stupidity. Unless the rain stopped, the situation would only get worse for Lando.
you’re not looking at this from a racing perspective, purely a hamilton. no point talking to people that are so single minded.

at least paul is big enough to admit when he’s wrong.
 

sewey89

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you’re not looking at this from a racing perspective, purely a hamilton. no point talking to people that are so single minded.

at least paul is big enough to admit when he’s wrong.
You can’t just dismiss other peoples opinions as wrong because they’re ‘Lewis fans’ or ‘fanboys’. That’s ridiculous.

Lando and Mclaren lost themselves the win today by not coming in. Both are to blame. Lando should’ve listened. Mclaren should’ve insisted.

Lewis also ignored, but merc insisted and he obliged. That won him the race.

Max and RedBull had very little to lose from 7th and it all to gain and they did just that. Fantastic from them to get in early and it really paid off.

@ArjenIsM3 as a max fan I think you’re probably naturally pessimistic about him winning the title and you’re right, the poster was wrong to say it’s all over, but that is huge for max today. He was probably expecting to drop 15-20 points to Lewis today and dropped 7. With the races coming up, the power of the car and the fact Lewis will take a penalty at some point, max has to be seen as title favourite. A title he should win anyway as he’s been the best driver in the best car this season
 

elmo

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you’re not looking at this from a racing perspective, purely a hamilton. no point talking to people that are so single minded.

at least paul is big enough to admit when he’s wrong.
Pointing out Lando fecking up is biased now? :lol::lol:

There's more to F1 than just driving fast, Norris forgot about it and clearly so did you.
 

Adam-Utd

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You can’t just dismiss other peoples opinions as wrong because they’re ‘Lewis fans’ or ‘fanboys’. That’s ridiculous.

Lando and Mclaren lost themselves the win today by not coming in. Both are to blame. Lando should’ve listened. Mclaren should’ve insisted.

Lewis also ignored, but merc insisted and he obliged. That won him the race.

Max and RedBull had very little to lose from 7th and it all to gain and they did just that. Fantastic from them to get in early and it really paid off.

@ArjenIsM3 as a max fan I think you’re probably naturally pessimistic about him winning the title and you’re right, the poster was wrong to say it’s all over, but that is huge for max today. He was probably expecting to drop 15-20 points to Lewis today and dropped 7. With the races coming up, the power of the car and the fact Lewis will take a penalty at some point, max has to be seen as title favourite. A title he should win anyway as he’s been the best driver in the best car this season
Pointing out Lando fecking up is biased now? :lol::lol:
ive already said it’s mclaren to blame, not the driver.

if he didn’t know heavier rain was coming why would be ever pit?

so many hindsight genius here today.
 

elmo

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ive already said it’s mclaren to blame, not the driver.

if he didn’t know heavier rain was coming why would be ever pit?

so many hindsight genius here today.
My point wasn't even about the pit stop, it was about you claiming Lando was a better driver in the rain just because he increased the lead over Lewis when it started raining.
 

sewey89

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ive already said it’s mclaren to blame, not the driver.

if he didn’t know heavier rain was coming why would be ever pit?

so many hindsight genius here today.
Lando isn’t immune from blame. He was asked to pit and told his team to shut up. The team should’ve been stronger and given him all the information that they had and insisted he came into the pits. Lando was fully focused on the win and ended up losing out on a lot of points
 

Ayush_reddevil

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You can’t just dismiss other peoples opinions as wrong because they’re ‘Lewis fans’ or ‘fanboys’. That’s ridiculous.

Lando and Mclaren lost themselves the win today by not coming in. Both are to blame. Lando should’ve listened. Mclaren should’ve insisted.

Lewis also ignored, but merc insisted and he obliged. That won him the race.

Max and RedBull had very little to lose from 7th and it all to gain and they did just that. Fantastic from them to get in early and it really paid off.

@ArjenIsM3 as a max fan I think you’re probably naturally pessimistic about him winning the title and you’re right, the poster was wrong to say it’s all over, but that is huge for max today. He was probably expecting to drop 15-20 points to Lewis today and dropped 7. With the races coming up, the power of the car and the fact Lewis will take a penalty at some point, max has to be seen as title favourite. A title he should win anyway as he’s been the best driver in the best car this season
Not sure how he is second if has been the best driver in the best car
 

elmo

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And? Saying this has somehow sealed the title for Max is a load of bollocks. Extremely premature at best.
Nah, but Max basically got 18 points when he was looking at around 5 points max till it rained in the last few laps. It's a huge turnaround because nobody expected him to get that many points today.
 

Adam-Utd

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My point wasn't even about the pit stop, it was about you claiming Lando was a better driver in the rain just because he increased the lead over Lewis when it started raining.
beat him in qualifying, pulled a gap on him in the race? I can only go by the evidence.
Lando isn’t immune from blame. He was asked to pit and told his team to shut up. The team should’ve been stronger and given him all the information that they had and insisted he came into the pits. Lando was fully focused on the win and ended up losing out on a lot of points
as I said above, they both ignored the radio as they felt they had the situation covered.

only when mercedes said it will get a lot worse and you must box now did he change his mind. unfortunately mclaren didn’t put that across strongly enough until it was already too late.

no driver in the lead of a gp is going to pit with 3 laps remaining unless it’s absolutely imperative. to blame norris is frankly stupid, he can only see 1 corner at a time.

the team shouldn’t have asked his opinion, they should have told him strongly you MUST pit.
 

sewey89

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beat him in qualifying, pulled a gap on him in the race? I can only go by the evidence.

as I said above, they both ignored the radio as they felt they had the situation covered.

only when mercedes said it will get a lot worse and you must box now did he change his mind. unfortunately mclaren didn’t put that across strongly enough until it was already too late.

no driver in the lead of a gp is going to pit with 3 laps remaining unless it’s absolutely imperative. to blame norris is frankly stupid, he can only see 1 corner at a time.

the team shouldn’t have asked his opinion, they should have told him strongly you MUST pit.
Agreed, but he’s also on the track and knows better than anyone in the team what the track is like, Lewis said it’s “slippy as hell”. You have to remember that we don’t hear every radio message. But from what we heard, you’re right, they weren’t strong enough, which I’ve criticised the team for
 

Red Shorts

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This year has really made me fall in love with F1 again. Other than the farce of Spa, it’s been excellent
I've always watched every race for the past 15 years since I started because I enjoy it, but this season has been more dramatic and exciting than a season I have seen. Absolutely loving this season and the drama it's brought
 

Zlatan 7

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ive already said it’s mclaren to blame, not the driver.

if he didn’t know heavier rain was coming why would be ever pit?

so many hindsight genius here today.
One or two know it all’s by the looks too
 

dinostar77

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What a fantastic race. Gutted for lando, but this experience will stand him in good stead. Remember lewis leading in china at McLaren in his first season or two and running out of tyre tread completely? He learnt from that lando will learn from this.

Congratulations to lewis to get win number 100. Ironically championship wise no rain and finishing 2nd would have been better for him but that's motor racing.

Great drive from Max, this years f1 championship winner in all but name. Its inevitable, hes driving superbly and the car is great. I am a fan of lewis, but even I think max deserves the title this year. Think he will nail the next 3 races with wins and then get over the line to win his maiden WDC. Will be deserved.

Ps. Bottas is utterly useless and massively locked in on a points finish.
 

Adam-Utd

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One or two know it all’s by the looks too
tell me where i’m wrong id love to hear it.
Agreed, but he’s also on the track and knows better than anyone in the team what the track is like, Lewis said it’s “slippy as hell”. You have to remember that we don’t hear every radio message. But from what we heard, you’re right, they weren’t strong enough, which I’ve criticised the team for
of course he knew it was slippery but at that point half the track was damp and the rest was dry. let’s not forget he aced the wet conditions in qualifying, he’s clearly not scared of a little bit of damp conditions.

if it would have stayed like that he would win I have no doubts - unfortunately the full rain burst and it happened. 5 minutes later or earlier and it would have been very different.
 

Buster15

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I've always watched every race for the past 15 years since I started because I enjoy it, but this season has been more dramatic and exciting than a season I have seen. Absolutely loving this season and the drama it's brought
Very much the same for me as well. Been a memorable season and still a way to go yet.
 

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How long did Lando stay out after Lewis ? It was more than 1 lap wasn't it ? Why not come in on the next lap. Or have I got it wrong.
 

rpitroda

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So so disappointed for Lando. He was bold to make the call to stay out, it’s such a hard decision too when you’re in 1st rather than 2nd or further back. I think, however, there is a really really fine line between being bold and being overbearing in F1. I think 80% of the blame must be with his team in the garage, they should have insisted. But Lando also should have been more receptive to what they’re saying rather than being so abruptly dismissive. At the end of the day he doesn’t have the data - which is why his team are mostly at fault and should have insisted. However, it’s much easier for the team to insist when you get the response on the radio like Hamilton’s rather than Lando’s. They still should have but it just heightens the emotions when they all should have stayed calm and relayed the critical information which in the end got lost.

Other than that, the race was magnificent. Exciting, overtakes, dynamic strategies and loads of twists and turns. Hamilton a good race despite a poor start. Mercedes with good pit stops and strategy in the end. Happy for his 100th win, a shame it had to come at the expense of Lando in this way.

The biggest winner today was Max. To come second despite starting at the back, with the engine penalty already taken, and with favourable tracks to the RB coming up, really puts him in a strong position even if he goes to bed 2Nd in the championship tonight. The gods appear on his side, with the rain playing a huge role for him being in second. But you make your own luck and he’s been consistent and was there to take the chance so you have to respect that.
 

The Hilton

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yet again, he ignored it as he was happy with the situation. they didn’t tell him heavier rain was coming.

hamilton also ignored it as he was happy with the situation. the team then told him heavier rain was coming so he boxed.

can you see the small difference? this isn’t on the drivers.
Multiple other drivers made the intermediates call themselves, Sainz did and it won him 3rd, so the drivers saying no made a mistake.

It's an understandable one, but both Lando and his team are to blame in my book. I'm happy to agree to disagree though.
 

dinostar77

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Lando and McClaren made a call, it was wrong on this occasion. However it could have been the right call in other circumstances. Lando could have gone on for the win. Everyone would be criticising Mercedes for throwing away Lewis chance to overtake Norris on the track, by putting inters on lewis car.

Max and RB for example, might have got the call wrong for inters and Max could have found himself out of the points. Its motor racing, it happens. You roll the dice and make a call.
 

Red Shorts

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Multiple other drivers made the intermediates call themselves, Sainz did and it won him 3rd, so the drivers saying no made a mistake.

It's an understandable one, but both Lando and his team are to blame in my book. I'm happy to agree to disagree though.
No you are completely right; it's not like Mercedes had better weathermen giving them the data that McLaren did not. The rain was always predicted to come, and Sochi is known to have heavy downpours at a moment's notice, leaving cars on non-inters/wets basically ice skating on a lap. Even with so few laps to go, you leave yourself in no mans land once the rain hits hard.

Lando didnt deserve to lose a podium, but at the same time should have listened to his team who have all the data there. Really gutted for the lad as I love his driving style and think hes a top guy in general.
 

Adam-Utd

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Multiple other drivers made the intermediates call themselves, Sainz did and it won him 3rd, so the drivers saying no made a mistake.

It's an understandable one, but both Lando and his team are to blame in my book. I'm happy to agree to disagree though.
other drivers weren’t in for the chance of winning the race. a lot easier to take less risks when you have nothing riding on it.

 

United Hobbit

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I'm surprised McLaren didn't insist he come in, as had he done so he'd have got a minimum of second provided no errors at the pit stop, as he and Lewis were so far ahead.

I think what didn't help his cause was he was in amongst the back markers so getting caught up with them, if he'd had a clear track he could have eased off a bit, or come in the lap after Lewis for wet tyres.

I think as well, he got a bit too over excited at the prospect of his first win (understandably) I think had he already won a couple of races he would have come in however this time he was so close to that elusive first win and is young and got caught up in the moment. This is perhaps where his team needed to insist he come in and secure his podium place at least.

Lewis also had a lot more to lose as he's competing for the title, where potentially every point could count. I think if he hadn't been doing so he would have stayed out.

Really hope Norris gets his first win soon.

As others have said this has been a fantastic season, it's so much more interesting without Hamilton and sometimes Bottas just disappearing off into the distance, so far ahead they have a free pit stop with the result confirmed as early as qualifying.

I thought Max would be a future world champion when he won his first race you could see he was a class above. I'm not particularly keen on either him or Lewis but am really enjoying their title fight, it's nice to see McLaren taking a step forward and pushing towards challenging Red Bull and Mercedes.

I hope it goes down to the last race. All too often recently we've had Lewis win the title about 5 races before the end of the season so the last races feel like box ticking.

Also hope next season the new regulations don't result in one team dominating, I was disappointed when they were pushed back to next year but now I'm enjoying it the most I have for a long time. My partner was never interested in it, until we watched drive to survive and he started watching last year when it was rather dull, this year he's really into it as well.

I think Hamilton will win the title, I think his having been in this position before and his extra maturity will be what gets him over the line.

Lewis, while he also has that experience and the team insist
 

The Hilton

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other drivers weren’t in for the chance of winning the race. a lot easier to take less risks when you have nothing riding on it.

You're right about that, but that doesn't stop it from being the wrong call.

As I said, I think we'll have to agree to disagree here.
 

Zlaatan

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I'm surprised McLaren didn't insist he come in, as had he done so he'd have got a minimum of second provided no errors at the pit stop, as he and Lewis were so far ahead.

I think what didn't help his cause was he was in amongst the back markers so getting caught up with them, if he'd had a clear track he could have eased off a bit, or come in the lap after Lewis for wet tyres.

I think as well, he got a bit too over excited at the prospect of his first win (understandably) I think had he already won a couple of races he would have come in however this time he was so close to that elusive first win and is young and got caught up in the moment. This is perhaps where his team needed to insist he come in and secure his podium place at least.

Lewis also had a lot more to lose as he's competing for the title, where potentially every point could count. I think if he hadn't been doing so he would have stayed out.

Really hope Norris gets his first win soon.

As others have said this has been a fantastic season, it's so much more interesting without Hamilton and sometimes Bottas just disappearing off into the distance, so far ahead they have a free pit stop with the result confirmed as early as qualifying.

I thought Max would be a future world champion when he won his first race you could see he was a class above. I'm not particularly keen on either him or Lewis but am really enjoying their title fight, it's nice to see McLaren taking a step forward and pushing towards challenging Red Bull and Mercedes.

I hope it goes down to the last race. All too often recently we've had Lewis win the title about 5 races before the end of the season so the last races feel like box ticking.

Also hope next season the new regulations don't result in one team dominating, I was disappointed when they were pushed back to next year but now I'm enjoying it the most I have for a long time. My partner was never interested in it, until we watched drive to survive and he started watching last year when it was rather dull, this year he's really into it as well.

I think Hamilton will win the title, I think his having been in this position before and his extra maturity will be what gets him over the line.

Lewis, while he also has that experience and the team insist
I've taken a bit of a breather from this thread and not posted as much lately and based on this post I think I'll keep it like that and just let you speak for me from now on because I agree with every single thing you just said. (I'm a bit worried you had a stroke midway through your last sentence though which might put a fork in these plans, but I'm hoping you're well.) :)
 

United Hobbit

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I've taken a bit of a breather from this thread and not posted as much lately and based on this post I think I'll keep it like that and just let you speak for me from now on because I agree with every single thing you just said. (I'm a bit worried you had a stroke midway through your last sentence though which might put a fork in these plans, but I'm hoping you're well.) :)
Thank you for this :)

Fortunately no stroke just very tired of the daily grind!

I think I must have originally been halfway through writing the post, then got distracted then went back to it but started typing in the middle of what I'd already started :lol:

Wouldn't it be great if the title want down to the last lap of the last race.

Usually I love wet races (bar when they cancel them!) this is the one time I wanted it to hold off for Norris! However I still think Hamilton would have got him anyway.
 

Adam-Utd

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You're right about that, but that doesn't stop it from being the wrong call.

As I said, I think we'll have to agree to disagree here.
obviously it was the wrong call in the end - but not in that moment of time.

You can’t make decisions based on hindsight and only on the information/evidence.

3 laps left with a slightly greasy track, why would you risk putting on inter tyres that would burn up within a lap? 25 seconds for a pit stop and you’d never catch hamilton.

It just so happens that the rain suddenly got a lot heavier 1 lap later. if it hang on for 3 more minutes it’s a well calculated decision.

everybody can sit here after looking smug saying “wrong decision, he bottled it” when it’s never that cut and dry.

Hamilton himself says he didn’t want to pit either but the team made it clear worse was coming. unfortunately mclaren didn’t. they probably hoped the rain would hang on.