F1 2021 Season

NK86

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Yes... just like it does not matter if max broke it during his unscheduled inspection... its the inspection that's the breach
Both should be pushed to the back of the grid. Would be fun that way. They would also set a precedence for the stuff Max did. Lewis would also be getting a lot of those going forward.
 

massi83

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Yes... just like it does not matter if max broke it during his unscheduled inspection... its the inspection that's the breach
The bias is strong with this one. Remember when you lied about Seb not touching the cars. That was 90mins ago.
 

pauldyson1uk

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If the Merc has broke the rules then a punishment has to be given out, in the case of Lewis I would think its pretty straightforward DQ and at the back of the grid.
Max clearly did touch the car, also against the rules, his punishment, I have no idea, I cant think of any precedent for a punishment level.
 

Zlaatan

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If your car is outside of the permitted rules then you're disqualified, simple.

It's no different than running bigger brakes or using 6 wheels. If your car is out of the spec allowed you're chucked out.

Now how they prove it, and whether Mercedes would be stupid enough to try that trick? i'm not sure. Quite possibly a mechanical failure which if proved they should get away with it.

It will definitely be a huge moment in the championship. It would be hard enough to catch Max starting 6th, but any lower than that and he has no chance.
If your car is breaking the rules then yes you should be punished, it just seems wrong that you get the same kind of punishment no matter how much or how little you break the rules. Of course trying to make some sort of system that decides what infringment gets what punishment would be a complete nightmare and would definitely create more problems than it's worth, so I guess what I'm saying is that I think a DQ for something like this is too harsh even though I get it's what they have to do.
 

F-Red

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I guess what I'm saying is that I think a DQ for something like this is too harsh even though I get it's what they have to do.
It's quite a binary thing, you exceed the regulated space and it's deemed an illegal car in accordance to the technical regulations. Those regulations doesn't have a grey area or a sweeping scale of punishment based on the part, and the FIA are pretty clear on that if a car isn't meeting those regulations then it's DQ'd.

Sporting regulations is where you can interpret the rules in many different ways, and can apply punishments a little differently. Technical regulations are pretty black and white.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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So says Helmut Marko , who is a massive cock, I take what ever he says with a huge pinch of salt.
Only a pinch is generous!

Still though it stands to reason that Max is only in trouble for touching the car because Mercedes have made a stink - given how other drivers have touched competitors' cars in the past without incident.
 

F-Red

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given how other drivers have touched competitors' cars in the past without incident.
But how many teams raised the other drivers touching as an issue? I'd take a strong educated guess that none of them have. Ron Meadows know they're lined up for a DQ result from the investigation, so he would have gone through the rulebook last night to find anyway to peg back the competitor. Petty? Absolutely, but this is F1 and to be absolutely expected.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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Could something have happened during qualifying to take the wing out of regulation.
Clearly they would have checked before the start.
Forgetting Max, he did nothing.
That's the crux of why they are still going over it I reckon. The onus is on Mercedes to prove they haven't done something dodgy here - a qualifying DQ is probably their best case scenario. If they've tried something more nefarious Lewis might not even be able to race at all. I think it was probably just oversight - especially given the chaos of going from Mexico to Brazil with the shipping problems, I could see that check getting overlooked.

Given that Ricciardo has had to do a pitlane start for having an MGU-K 0.01% over the guidelines, I don't think Mercedes can really have any complaints.

But how many teams raised the other drivers touching as an issue? I'd take a strong educated guess that none of them have. Ron Meadows know they're lined up for a DQ result from the investigation, so he would have gone through the rulebook last night to find anyway to peg back the competitor. Petty? Absolutely, but this is F1 and to be absolutely expected.
Yeah that's exactly what I'm getting at - I can't see this being a sporting penalty, just a conduct one. For me a fine and a stern rebuke would be fair unless it can be proved that Verstappen has bionic hands and that he somehow affected the Merc wing.
 

F-Red

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Yeah that's exactly what I'm getting at - I can't see this being a sporting penalty, just a conduct one. For me a fine and a stern rebuke would be fair unless it can be proved that Verstappen has bionic hands and that he somehow affected the Merc wing.
I actually think Max will get a reprimand from the stewards, nothing more.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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I actually think Max will get a reprimand from the stewards, nothing more.
Yeah I agree! Think I worded that poorly - I think a reprimand is the most likely outcome; for me a fine and a reprimand would be just about the harshest punishment that I'd still consider fair.
 

ZIDANE

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Well they made their viewing figures higher for this practice session and sprint weekend at least with this delayed decision…
 

Jippy

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Are you trying to be worse staff member than Grinner?
I don't know what that means, but I was just saying someone being wrong about something -eg Seb physically touching a car- may have been mistaken or not seen that footage, rather than deliberately lying about it, which was the case for me.
Not sure why you're getting your knickers in a twist about a fair statement.
 

sun_tzu

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I don't know what that means, but I was just saying someone being wrong about something -eg Seb physically touching a car- may have been mistaken or not seen that footage, rather than deliberately lying about it, which was the case for me.
Not sure why you're getting your knickers in a twist about a fair statement.
Exactly this... somewhat reinforced by having just read this prior to posting

Sebastian Vettel has been given the light-hearted nickname ‘Inspector Seb’ in recent years after plenty of photos and videos have emerged of him looking at other cars to see where his own can be improved, but he has stopped short of touching a rival car.
Which was from here

https://www.planetf1.com/news/max-verstappen-spotted-touching-lewis-hamilton-mercedes/
 

hobbers

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Usually technical regulation fails are an instant penalty, why is it taking so long?
 

NieThePiet

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Stewards deemed that "no direct harm was caused" by Max Verstappen's actions but issued a fine as it is a breach of regulations. Says it "has potential for serious consequences" and has warned teams/drivers of future conduct.
Most important part.
So there can be only one consequence for Mercedes.
 

sun_tzu

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Are there any precedent fines to compare to? Given how much these guy make, it probably isn’t huge in the grand scheme of things.
Seems the intention is to set a precedent with this ruling i think

I.e. if somebody does this at a future gp they could get a far bigger penalty

“It is clear to the Stewards that it has become a habit of the drivers to touch cars after qualifying and the races. This was also the explanation of Verstappen, that it was simply habit to touch this area of the car which has been a point of speculation in recent races between both teams


“This general tendency has been seen as mostly harmless and so has not been uniformly policed. Nevertheless, it is a breach of the parc fermé regulation and has significant potential to cause harm.

“The stewards considering the fact that no direct harm was caused in this case, in the opinion of the stewards, and that no earlier precedent of penalties for this exists – on the one hand;
but that it is a breach of the regulation and has potential for serious consequences on the other, the stewards determine to take action in this case and order a fine of €50,000.

“The stewards further note that it is intended that all teams and drivers take notice that future breaches may incur different penalties from the stewards of those events.”