F1 2021 Season

Jazz

Just in case anyone missed it. I don't like Mount.
Joined
Feb 11, 2014
Messages
30,894
Well done to Lewis.
 

ArjenIsM3

Full Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2015
Messages
5,633
Location
Netherlands
Who’s saying they are? Mercedes was the quicker car today, zero doubt about that.
Been that way for weeks if you read the thread, Merc keep repeating it too even though every race and qualifying shows it's absolute bollocks. And now I read posts about how RB and Max are just now realising how good Lewis is.. as if they didn't know that already after he's won it all for years? Weird. This season is no different than the last or the one before, or the one before.. the Merc is still the quickest car. The difference between them is a bit smaller, that's all. Lewis isn't now somehow proving anything or showing anything new. But the Merc spin is he's beating Verstappen even though the RB is quicker. Yawn. I think if Merc replaced Bottas with Russell or Norris it'd be a Merc 1-2 every race. Bottas just keeps underperforming. Unfortunately for RB, so does Perez.
 
Spanish GP Result

pauldyson1uk

Full Member
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
55,216
Location
Wythenshawe watching Crappy Fims
POSNODRIVERCARLAPSTIME/RETIREDPTS
144Lewis HamiltonMERCEDES661:33:07.68025
233Max VerstappenRED BULL RACING HONDA66+15.841s19
377Valtteri BottasMERCEDES66+26.610s15
416Charles LeclercFERRARI66+54.616s12
511Sergio PerezRED BULL RACING HONDA66+63.671s10
63Daniel RicciardoMCLAREN MERCEDES66+73.768s8
755Carlos SainzFERRARI66+74.670s6
84Lando NorrisMCLAREN MERCEDES65+1 lap4
931Esteban OconALPINE RENAULT65+1 lap2
1010Pierre GaslyALPHATAURI HONDA65+1 lap1
1118Lance StrollASTON MARTIN MERCEDES65+1 lap0
127Kimi RäikkönenALFA ROMEO RACING FERRARI65+1 lap0
135Sebastian VettelASTON MARTIN MERCEDES65+1 lap0
1463George RussellWILLIAMS MERCEDES65+1 lap0
1599Antonio GiovinazziALFA ROMEO RACING FERRARI65+1 lap0
166Nicholas LatifiWILLIAMS MERCEDES65+1 lap0
1714Fernando AlonsoALPINE RENAULT65+1 lap0
1847Mick SchumacherHAAS FERRARI64+2 laps0
199Nikita MazepinHAAS FERRARI64+2 laps0
NC22Yuki TsunodaALPHATAURI HONDA6DNF0
 

elmo

Can never have too many Eevees
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
13,268
Location
AKA: Slapanut Goat Smuggla
If Lewis didnt pit for the 2nd time, Max would win this race easy, he lead from the 1st corner in 1st lap, it Max race to lose up until that Lewis 2nd pit stop which RB could counter the next lap and they didn't.
This year RB could really take the challenge to Merc and possibly win it, their car looks faster and it evident in race aswell with Max.
Today, they got ouwit for 2nd time with same tactic after Hungary 2019. Underdog? yeah, it looks like Merc is the underdog alright in this race for trying something for the win because they couldnt catch Max the leader.
What race were you watching? Lewis was much faster and with fresher tires. No chance Max defends 20 over laps successfully. :houllier:

Second pit stop strategy was to force Red Bull into a standstill and gamble that Bottas could get second.
 

hobbers

Full Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
27,357
Red Bull should have gambled after Lewis made that second stop, but the people going in on them for not pulling Max in are pretty damn ignorant :lol:

Mercedes could do what they did because Bottas had him covered off. If Max had pitted he ends up with Lewis a second or two behind on the same age medium tyres, which the Merc is much faster on, but also with Bottas ahead of him. It might have worked out better for Max in the end, but it's anything but guaranteed.

Perez needs to step up, Max is always going to be at a massive disadvantage if he's leading two Mercedes 15 laps into every race.
 

elmo

Can never have too many Eevees
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
13,268
Location
AKA: Slapanut Goat Smuggla
For all the flak Bottas gets, he's the perfect second driver and Max would kill to have him in the Red Bull instead of the Mercedes.
 

Leg-End

Full Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
19,542
At some point Perez has to start getting in the mix, even if that’s battling Bottas. Perez has never been a strong qualifier but he has to start keeping in the pit stop window.

Bottas is quick over one lap and that’s what keeps him in the mix, fair to say on race day he’s not on that level of Ham/Max but by being in and around it he’s in play.
 

stu_1992

Full Member
Joined
May 8, 2013
Messages
4,856
Location
Ireland
Nightmare time for this race to be on as United fan. I caught the first lap and Max overtake at the start obviously. Came back and watched at half time when not a whole lot had changed, other than that Hamilton was right on Max. Then when Lewis pitted unexpectedly (to me at least) and came out putting in some serious laps times, I knew I'd need to leave this on my phone and keep one eye on it while I was watching the match.

Glad I did in the end as it was a great relentless drive from Hamilton to close him down and pass Max. Wish we would have gotten a bit more of a battle but was never likely on this track, plus Max's tyres were gone.
 

psychdelicblues

Full Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2004
Messages
4,160
Location
Electric Ladyland
If Lewis didnt pit for the 2nd time, Max would win this race easy, he lead from the 1st corner in 1st lap, it Max race to lose up until that Lewis 2nd pit stop which RB could counter the next lap and they didn't.
This year RB could really take the challenge to Merc and possibly win it, their car looks faster and it evident in race aswell with Max.
Today, they got ouwit for 2nd time with same tactic after Hungary 2019. Underdog? yeah, it looks like Merc is the underdog alright in this race for trying something for the win because they couldnt catch Max the leader.
Verstappen would have still been behind Hamilton, as that's how an undercut works.
 

diarm

Full Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Messages
16,681
Does anyone know who the Indian lad doing analysis for Sky is?

He's a brilliant pundit. Very knowledgeable and speaks so well.
 

BIGbadBOO4

New Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
1,144
Location
Manchester
Redbull design a car that suits Max, the 2nd driver has to adapt to the car. Perez even said he is changing his driving style to copy how max drives. That tells you that car is built for Max. That strategy advantages max but disadvantages the 2nd redbull driver. Merc on the other hand build the fastest car they can. That is why Russell got in it and drive well. Redbull puts all their eggs into the max wagon, but that costs them races.
 

Robertd0803

Full Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
6,530
Does anyone know who the Indian lad doing analysis for Sky is?

He's a brilliant pundit. Very knowledgeable and speaks so well.
Its Karin Chaundok I think. Former driver for Jordan/Force India I think. Memory of the F1 midfield from previous years is a bit hazy.
 

dinostar77

Full Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2014
Messages
7,198
Well that was a slow burner wasnt it. Though Lewis would have overtaken max the lap max he came in for for his stop. Good strategy by Mercs though i thought it would be too much of an ask to pull off.

Bottas is a prat. If he wants to keep his drive for next season he needs to do as hes told and get the feck out of Lewis's way.

Perez needs to switch over to his own setup and stop using verstappen's car setup as its not doing him any favours.
 

dinostar77

Full Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2014
Messages
7,198
You say that but Red Bull / Verstappen would most likely be winning the championship this year if not for Hamilton.
It isnt as simple as people think. Getting the tyred into the right operating window is key. Some tracks will suit the Mercs better than the Mercedes. RB on long runs seem to be better on Softs than Merc. But Merc seem to be better on Med than RB on long runs.

It wouldnt suprise me if Verstappen won Monaco. I think RB have an advantage on the softs and that will give them pole and possibly the race win next weekend.

Its gonna be nip and tuck for a good while yet. The closer this battle is the more it will cost both teams in terms of next years car development. Ferrari have already said 95% of their resources are committed to the 2022 car.
 

Zlaatan

Parody Account
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
3,771
Location
Sweden
Well that was a slow burner wasnt it. Though Lewis would have overtaken max the lap max he came in for for his stop. Good strategy by Mercs though i thought it would be too much of an ask to pull off.

Bottas is a prat. If he wants to keep his drive for next season he needs to do as hes told and get the feck out of Lewis's way.

Perez needs to switch over to his own setup and stop using verstappen's car setup as its not doing him any favours.
He's been Merc's perfect little lap dog for over 4 years now, I think he's earned the right to show how fed up he is about it even though he's known even before he signed for them that this would be his role.
 

ArjenIsM3

Full Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2015
Messages
5,633
Location
Netherlands
You say that but Red Bull / Verstappen would most likely be winning the championship this year if not for Hamilton.
Could be, if hypothetically Mercedes truly fecked up their choice of drivers. But that's like saying Red Bull wouldn't be on the podium without Verstappen. Which is probably true too. But it all depends on who you'd put in their place doesn't it? Fact is, Mercedes still have the best car so if the drivers are equal they win.
 

Dan_F

Full Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2012
Messages
10,317
A few posters are being pretty harsh on Red Bull’s strategists. It caught out the commentators, Red Bull and I didn’t see any posters calling for it beforehand (although I was watching the United game too).
 

F-Red

Full Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Messages
10,874
Location
Cheshire
Bottas is a prat. If he wants to keep his drive for next season he needs to do as hes told and get the feck out of Lewis's way.
Rumour from a credible podcast is that he's been told already that he's not getting his contract renewed for next season.
 

Robertd0803

Full Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
6,530
Also what is it about the second Red Bull driver falling to pieces/seriously underperforming as soon as they become the second Red Bull driver? Perez seems to be really struggling more than I thought he would so far.
 

Robertd0803

Full Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
6,530
Rumour from a credible podcast is that he's been told already that he's not getting his contract renewed for next season.
Hes not stupid, he surely knows unless he has a season like Rosberg in 2016 he must realise that theres very little chance he would be kept. Going against team orders and making things difficult probably not such a good idea though.
 

hobbers

Full Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
27,357
Bottas already knows this is very likely his last year at Mercedes, so why be a team player?

He'd have rather Max beat Lewis today for his own championship ambitions. He's not going to be obey team orders this season and, if they're cutting him next year anyway, why should he?
 

Balljy

Full Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2016
Messages
3,303
He's been Merc's perfect little lap dog for over 4 years now, I think he's earned the right to show how fed up he is about it even though he's known even before he signed for them that this would be his role.
His timing of doing that couldn't have been worse though. He's had numerous opportunities over the years on similar tyres and similar strategies, but he decides to defend his position when Hamilton is 1.5 seconds a lap faster than him and is on tyres that give him no opportunity to defend. Result is Bottas loses position on the 3rd corner :lol:
 

Adam-Utd

Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
39,954
Rumour from a credible podcast is that he's been told already that he's not getting his contract renewed for next season.
I think today was a perfect proof that he definitely isn't staying.

He'd rather cost Hamilton the chance of winning, I hope when it's Bottas' turn he does exactly the same, watch him cry on the radio.
 

dinostar77

Full Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2014
Messages
7,198
I think today was a perfect proof that he definitely isn't staying.

He'd rather cost Hamilton the chance of winning, I hope when it's Bottas' turn he does exactly the same, watch him cry on the radio.
It wasn't so bad today, if he did that at monaco, it would surely screw up the race. Anyway lewis probably wants to keep bottas in the team rather than have the challenge of George Russell to contend with. Though give russell a season or so and i think he would be more rosberg than bottas.
 

Adam-Utd

Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
39,954
It wasn't so bad today, if he did that at monaco, it would surely screw up the race. Anyway lewis probably wants to keep bottas in the team rather than have the challenge of George Russell to contend with. Though give russell a season or so and i think he would be more rosberg than bottas.
Mainly because Hamilton's tyres were so new he had no chance to defend, but that 2 or 3 seconds extra he lost while trying to chase Verstappen down could have cost him.

He's an absolute baby, I have no idea why he even thinks he's got a chance at the title, just look how far behind he is every race. It'll be Hamilton and Russell next year.
 

Buster15

Go on Didier
Joined
Aug 28, 2018
Messages
13,297
Location
Bristol
Supports
Bristol Rovers
It wasn't so bad today, if he did that at monaco, it would surely screw up the race. Anyway lewis probably wants to keep bottas in the team rather than have the challenge of George Russell to contend with. Though give russell a season or so and i think he would be more rosberg than bottas.
But Hamilton just loves a challenge and Russell would give him exactly that.
 

Buster15

Go on Didier
Joined
Aug 28, 2018
Messages
13,297
Location
Bristol
Supports
Bristol Rovers
Mainly because Hamilton's tyres were so new he had no chance to defend, but that 2 or 3 seconds extra he lost while trying to chase Verstappen down could have cost him.

He's an absolute baby, I have no idea why he even thinks he's got a chance at the title, just look how far behind he is every race. It'll be Hamilton and Russell next year.
Now that would be fantastic.
 

pauldyson1uk

Full Member
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
55,216
Location
Wythenshawe watching Crappy Fims
Mainly because Hamilton's tyres were so new he had no chance to defend, but that 2 or 3 seconds extra he lost while trying to chase Verstappen down could have cost him.

He's an absolute baby, I have no idea why he even thinks he's got a chance at the title, just look how far behind he is every race. It'll be Hamilton and Russell next year.
To be fair , in the last 2 races, Max has pitted to get the fastest lap, today he got the extra point, last week track limits got him.
The last 2 races, Lewis's experience and strategy has beaten Max, I bet Lewis had a say in the second pit, a radio message that we did not hear. Red Bull strategists are a bit like Ole and his subs, sometime they dont have a clue.
 

Fluctuation0161

Full Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2016
Messages
8,156
Location
Manchester
Lewis certainly looking the better driver and with better package. But 14 point gap can change in one race, or with one new car development.

Will be tight.
 

Leg-End

Full Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
19,542
Lewis certainly looking the better driver and with better package. But 14 point gap can change in one race, or with one new car development.

Will be tight.
I agree and seemingly Bottas isn’t going to play the team game. Bottas has far more capability to be taking points away from Hamilton than Perez does from Max and that could be key.

The top 3 is going to be fairly consistent and that means nobody will streak ahead on points, it may come down to reliability.
 

F-Red

Full Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Messages
10,874
Location
Cheshire
The last 2 races, Lewis's experience and strategy has beaten Max, I bet Lewis had a say in the second pit, a radio message that we did not hear.
All Mercedes to be fair, their Q2 run indicated that they were looking for an extra set of mediums for the race. This wasn't an off the cuff call today, and one stopping at Barcelona is a very difficult strategy to work.
 

pauldyson1uk

Full Member
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
55,216
Location
Wythenshawe watching Crappy Fims

slyadams

Full Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2012
Messages
2,189
The risk Bottas runs is losing the seat mid-season. Bottas' main job is to spoil.Max's weekends, whether that's out qualifying him, beating him in the race or taking away strategic options. He does those 3 things adequetly, but what he did today was beyond the pale team wise.
 

pauldyson1uk

Full Member
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
55,216
Location
Wythenshawe watching Crappy Fims
The risk Bottas runs is losing the seat mid-season. Bottas' main job is to spoil.Max's weekends, whether that's out qualifying him, beating him in the race or taking away strategic options. He does those 3 things adequately, but what he did today was beyond the pale team wise.
I dont think he will lose his seat this season, it is a given , he wont be at Mercedes next season and Russell will take his seat.
His actions today were understandable, frustration and not really wanting to let Lewis past, but Lewis was 1-1.5 second a lap faster, making Lewis actually perform a real overtake was just Bottas throwing his toys out, it did not affect Lewis in the end.
Bottas is a good driver and I think would walk in to any of the top teams, if he had not been racing at the same time as Lewis, he would've had a couple of WC by now.
Toto will have a word, dont think we will see it happen again.
 

Adam-Utd

Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
39,954
To be fair , in the last 2 races, Max has pitted to get the fastest lap, today he got the extra point, last week track limits got him.
The last 2 races, Lewis's experience and strategy has beaten Max, I bet Lewis had a say in the second pit, a radio message that we did not hear. Red Bull strategists are a bit like Ole and his subs, sometime they dont have a clue.
I meant Bottas. he’s nowhere near the pace of hamilton and verstappen.

for the way he acts you’d think every point matters, but we all know he’ll end up 50+ points behind. his talks of having a run at the title, i’m not sure he even believes it now.
 

Fluctuation0161

Full Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2016
Messages
8,156
Location
Manchester
I dont think he will lose his seat this season, it is a given , he wont be at Mercedes next season and Russell will take his seat.
His actions today were understandable, frustration and not really wanting to let Lewis past, but Lewis was 1-1.5 second a lap faster, making Lewis actually perform a real overtake was just Bottas throwing his toys out, it did not affect Lewis in the end.
Bottas is a good driver and I think would walk in to any of the top teams, if he had not been racing at the same time as Lewis, he would've had a couple of WC by now.
Toto will have a word, dont think we will see it happen again.
Bottas is miles behind Hamilton. He massively underperforms versus Hamilton even compared with Rosberg did if you look at points gap.

If I was being very kind to Bottas, I would say he is as good a driver as Perez. But that is a disservice to Perez.