Agreed. My only point was that the system is bafflingly inconsistent and at least to my (admittedly biased) eye Jota looks more likely to be offside here than Lukaku did in the league cup final.
FA Cup 2021/22 | Quarter Finals (March 19-20)
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Yeah definitely, another case of dodgy play.
You can play the ball with the upper part of your arm.
Yes, it looks that way but I think that could be down to the images. The first one from the TV feed is affected by perspective distortion, right? He looks off in the first but I don't think it's an accurate depiction.
Yet they've seemingly drawn the line for Jota at his right boot instead of his right shoulder - where is the consistency?
That will always be the argument, but we’ll never get 100% accuracy without better technology.
His right boot is further ahead than his shoulder.
That is absolutely not true given that he's not leaning backwards. How on earth can you look at that image and think that Jota's right boot is ahead of his shoulder / the outer part of his upper arm?
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There's no possible argument that his boot is in front of his shoulder mate.
Is he levitating? Maybe Klopp did make that much touted deal with the devil
Based off the official image below furthest part forward of his boot looks further ahead than the outside of his arm to me. You don't need to be leaning for that to be the case.
Regardless, the image doesn't show where they drew the line from on Jota anyway. It's only showing the defensive line because they overlapped (i.e. it was within the M.O.E.)
Fair enough. I just don't see how that can be the case given the way his body is angled.
I just find this whole system so deranged at this point. There is still a gigantic margin of error with these decisions given frame rates and camera angles. I've said from day 1 that the solution is to allow VAR but with no slow motion or freeze framing - people wanted VAR to intervene where there are egregious mistakes, and those are the ones visible at normal speed.
Why did they throw the kitchen sink of technology for decisions. It was only needed for goal line incidents and penalties. I'd much rather have the linesman's judgement.
Linesmen can get it horribly wrong.
If there's any justice this season Liverpool are due a few 50/50s that go against them. Ideally in crucial games which make the difference to not winning any more trophies rather than when already 5-0 up against the likes of Norwich
They were something like 98.7% accurate. Adding VAR at normal speed to overturn the egregious decisions was all that was required - the current iteration is completely beyond the spirit of the rules.
Watch the Spurs and West Ham games. Kane should've been sent off and Jota should've had a penalty against Spurs, and Cresswell could've easily got sent off against West Ham whilst the game was still 0-0. We dropped five points in those games.
But ultimately isn't offside black and white? You're either on or your off. There probably should be some slight advantage given to the attacker where it's marginal (like Lukaku's one against us or Jota's today).
My biggest issue with the offside rule currently is the 'interfering with play' one. There's a goal Firmino scored against Watford where the initial pass from Robertson was to Salah who was offside, but a Watford defender intercepted it and put it into Firmino's path who scored a tap in. It wasn't given as an offside against Salah because a new phase of play started when the Watford defender intercepted the ball, but he wouldn't need to do that if Salah's position didn't force him to. It's weird.
Personally I don't think offside should be a binary decision - the rule was introduced to prevent cherry-picking in front of goal and for me legislating whether someone's toenail is offside is contrary to the spirit of the law.
This is why I favour eliminating freeze framing and slow motion from these decisions - just let the linesman decide and if he's egregiously wrong the VAR who can watch replays only at normal speed can call it back. Enforce standards by demoting linesmen/women who are consistently wrong and make it all public. For me that's the clearest way forward.
Good fecking god,the amount of salt 
It's so tight that you have to allow that it's onside. But what always baffles me, having worked in TV for twenty years and sat in countless edits, is how they can be sure which frame represents the precise point at which the ball is played. In this case, Jota was moving in on goal and the defender away. I'd reckon that in a couple of frames - that's less than tenth of a second - he'd have shown offside.
Yeah but the lines is from his elbow ffs.
Fair enough if that's all you have to say about it only that you have said nothing else other than "its onside, peroid"
It's onside. Period. Really nothing else to say about it.
Look at where the line is drawn from the Forest defender, does it make sense?
Of course this would get near-zero mention in the media but if this was Manchester United, pretty sure we'd not hear the last of it.
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So Forest defenders arm play him onside or I'm missing something?
Cause it sure looks offside despite that line.
Cause it sure looks offside despite that line.
Twitter is filled with angry incels drawing their own lines showing it was onside.
The most tiresome aspect of VAR is fans (of all sides) suggesting it’s bent in favour of their rivals. Dull.
I have a couple of issues with this image. First is that the camera angle isn't in line with play and coming from an angle. Second is that we have no line for Jota as it appears his arm is further ahead than his foot in this image, but it appears they're playing it from his foot, unlike the Forest player. Third is that the line of the Forest player is outside of his arm.Based off the official image below furthest part forward of his boot looks further ahead than the outside of his arm to me. You don't need to be leaning for that to be the case.
Regardless, the image doesn't show where they drew the line from on Jota anyway. It's only showing the defensive line because they overlapped (i.e. it was within the M.O.E.)
Now, I don't want to get into tin hat theories, but what I would say is that VAR shouldn't be used if these are the angles being used for it. Therefore, as the goal was given by the lino, I will go with it. If it had been disallowed then given, I would've had more issue with it.
That said, looking at this and then the Lukaku one against them in the final, can anyone tell me the real difference in where Jota's arm/shoulder is and his? I ask as one thing I would say with the Dippers is that they seem to get a lot of 50/50's in their favour. Off the top of my head, they've had the following in the past few games:
1) No red card for Keita, due to 'both feet being high' even though he followed through and endangered a player.
2) Lukaku offside vs this one
3) The call for a foul on TAA when Inter had a break. This one was actually the most ridiculous.
There are probably others but those are what I remember; not going to count the pen yesterday as the player dragged his foot and I would be a hypocrite if I said that was a foul (although will point this out if a similar decision is given to someone else in the future.)
So anyway, yeah, all these calls are boardline, however all seem to go in their favour.
1) The angle of the camera is irrelevant to how the offside is calculated, it's mapped to the pitch with 3d imaging tech. It would be the same with any camera angle they used.
2) Regarding Jota, that image tells us nothing about where they drew the line from on him as the only line shown relates to the defender. Because that's all they show when the two lines overlap (i.e. it has fallen inside the margin of error). But they will have selected whichever point of Jota was furthest forward, which again is easy for them to tell because of the imaging tech.
3) The outside of the arm is the correct reference point to draw the line from on the defender as you can play the ball with your upper arm. They pretty consistently draw the line from there on offside calls. As they did with the Lukaku offside you mention, his arm was just extended in that case:
I've been talking to scum fans today, and they've said the same only 1 angle they showed and even Jota thought he was off. !
On side got the rub again . Klopp influence my bey didn't want to upset him .
Embarrassing tbh from some of our fans going to great lengths and arguing about a tight call.
Forest were unlucky.
Pool luck will run out eventually, probably soon.
Relax and let's worry about getting our house in order.
Chelsea more likely to win the CL than Pool.
City more likely to win the league.
Chelsea favourites for FA Cup, then City then Pool.
It won't all go their way, maybe not any of it.
Forest were unlucky.
Pool luck will run out eventually, probably soon.
Relax and let's worry about getting our house in order.
Chelsea more likely to win the CL than Pool.
City more likely to win the league.
Chelsea favourites for FA Cup, then City then Pool.
It won't all go their way, maybe not any of it.
That would be the ultimate salt in the wound job - no chance. It’s blatantly going to stay at Wembley. This argument comes up often when the big north west clubs bemoan an additional Wembley trip for the semi finals. The FA will insist on cashing in at Wembley.
Maybe Salfords ground, City would still struggle to fill their allocation
It's not because it's Wembley, it's the fact that getting there has just become a nightmare for both us and City fans. The FA were told in 2019 that trains wouldn't be running that weekend and they didn't care. They were told again in November 2021 that they may need a rethink and nothing happened. This is all about the FA once again not giving a damn about the normal fans.
I'm guaranteed a couple of tickets for the Semi and right now, have no idea how I'm getting there. I used the train for the League Cup final, but clearly that's not an option this time, so it looks like a 5 hour drive each way is on the cards.
I agree they don’t care about fans, it’s all about the bottom line at the FA.