FA to investigate Edinson Cavani | This thread is taking a break

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The Boy

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Millions of International people, not just English. It's a massive platform but it's not exclusive to English speaking nation, hence your insistence to erase it by applying "English" standard is insulting. You're insinuating Spanish people should stop using their words, their culture and their daily communication word because it sounds offensive in English
Not at all, I would definitely cease to use a particular word in English publicly if it was deemed offensive in Spanish or Indonesian or any other language. As you know I live in Cambodia and moderate what I do as there are certain things that I wouldn't think twice about in the UK, a simple example is showing the soles of my feet as it is seen as very offensive here.

The point is it is a public forum, at home I wouldn't change anything, but in public I certainly would. It's just good manners.
 

Longshanks

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The post has been removed, I think cavani could do with coming out with a statement, apologising for any offence that may have been caused, explaining the context and endeavour to re educate himself on our culture a little.

It's a storm in a teacup, it's important to make sure cavani is aware that it could be taken as offensive over here but in his own culture it isn't seen as offensive in fact it's a term of endearment so we have to be tolerant and understanding of that otherwise we are becoming somewhat discriminatory ourselves.
 

DoomSlayer

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I am Uruguayan, same as Cavani, and probably the other person he is talking too...
Is England the law about how everyone in any country should communicate?
I mean, England will teach the world about not being racist? really?
It's the definition of poetic irony. England and other countries in the West have no moral right to judge other cultures on racist terms or similar stuff.
 

Dion

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The FA are not us. They are going to be the culture police and the bullshit righteous police and probably rule against Cavani. They have zero right to punish Cavani when context is examined. His isolated comment to a friend has zero connection to an us v them discussion of racial divisions.

The FA punishing someone for not adhering to their beliefs (they are a pile of shit, racist, sexist, old white man boys club) is entirely wrong. They blatantly said that Suarez using the word negrito in an endearing way is not racist. He lied in his testimony, it was proven to be true that he did lie and that he kicked out at an opposing player who is not a friend, because that opposing player is black.
This is ranty and nonsensical. The FA have every right to punish footballers, the footballers literally sign a contract giving them that right.

And the report found that Suarez didn't say negrito, they found he said negro. They agreed that 'negrito' could be used inoffensively, that doesn't mean that using it without offensive intent goes unpunished.
 

BootsyCollins

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It reminds me of the Bernado Silva and Mendy situation. The problem is not what he is saying to a friend, even if i personally think its a stupid word to use, but more that he put it up on Instagram for the world to see.
Now its open for people who actually get hurt seeing such words used to see, and then its no good.

What did Bernado get? A one match ban? Similar to Cavani i think is fair, and i also hope that someone talks to him about using that, or similar, words and explain that for many people around the world its hurtfull to see such words.

Also he is a superstar, so even if it was ”harmless” to a friend he should think about that he is a rolemodel and that people looks up to him. Thats also why i dont think this should go without punishment. We dont want racist cnuts saying ”well, Cavani said it and did not get punished so either should i”
 

RashyForPM

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I don't think you do at all, as that is not the right word to be using. If you wanted to indicate your point more accurately, you could have said the FA are "culturally ignorant" or "lacking in knowledge of international differences"

But no, that is not the definition of racism, and it's quite deplorable that you are weakening the word by using it that way.
:lol: I didn’t even say my definition just to see what you would reply. “Deplorable”. You’re making a clown of yourself here with your stupid accusations.
 

Dion

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You're absolutely right tbh. I meant it in a way that the F.A might not bother doing much investigation and just punish him without a little bit of common sense.
Yeah, it's one of these cases where it would do more good to actually come out and talk about why it isn't appropriate rather than just slapping on a ban and saying no more about it. It's not the same as Silva's which was just an obviously racist trope that was at best insensitive and at worst outwardly racist, Cavani's was far more inadvertent and subtle.
 

RashyForPM

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The post has been removed, I think cavani could do with coming out with a statement, apologising for any offence that may have been caused, explaining the context and endeavour to re educate himself on our culture a little.

It's a storm in a teacup, it's important to make sure cavani is aware that it could be taken as offensive over here but in his own culture it isn't seen as offensive in fact it's a term of endearment so we have to be tolerant and understanding of that otherwise we are becoming somewhat discriminatory ourselves.
Precisely, but certain fools here don’t understand this. Everything is all about them ignorant people.
 

rio's upper lip

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Open and shut case, based on precedent. He will get some kind of ban. It's really simple.

Guessing they will charge him along the lines of what B. Silva got. 1 game, perhaps?
 

RoyH1

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Millions of International people, not just English. It's a massive platform but it's not exclusive to English speaking nation, hence your insistence to erase it by applying "English" standard is insulting. You're insinuating Spanish people should stop using their words, their culture and their daily communication word because it sounds offensive in English
It’s quite ironic isn’t it seeing a bunch of powerful old, white men from a major colonial power, dictating what terms Latin can use in their private social media feeds is apparently ok, but not using a certain term as a form of endearment.
 

Highfather_24

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"Cultural differences" can range from choice of primary carbohydrate to whether you believe people of a certain ethnic group have a right to exist. It's not grounds to accept anything on its own.
Good point. I had to think about this a bit, but I disagree kinda.

I think you can criticise certain practises of other cultures, while understanding the fact that many people have grown up in that culture, and that has been normalised to them. Just like I'm sure there are practises in your culture, that have been normalised to you. Idk if you are non-vegetarian, but that is insensitive to some cultures. Doesn't mean you are wrong, but gives every right to someone else to criticise your culture for it.

Cavani made an insensitive comment, in English speaking countries. It might not be controversial in his country, so he just needs to come out, apologise and explain his stance. Its not a big deal, he didn't commit a major crime, nor is it something that should be ignored.
 

Dion

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Precisely, but certain fools here don’t understand this. Everything is all about them ignorant people.
Plenty of people understand that, which is why they aren't calling for Cavani to be banned for an extended period. Understanding isn't a synonym for ignoring, it's possible to understand the cultural differences between two countries and still consider that an action isn't right.
 

Dion

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Good point. I had to think about this a bit, but I disagree kinda.

I think you can criticise certain practises of other cultures, while understanding the fact that many people have grown up in that culture, and that has been normalised to them. Just like I'm sure there are practises in your culture, that have been normalised to you. Idk if you are non-vegetarian, but that is insensitive to some cultures. Doesn't mean you are wrong, but gives every right to someone else to criticise your culture for it.
I'm not sure where you disagree with me there! :D I think you mostly illustrated my point nicely, the criticisms of eating meat are (largely) still as valid even if that person is from a culture where eating meat is seen as the norm. The criticism that it's wrong to kill and eat other animals when you don't have to is still valid regardless of culture.
 

The Red Thinker

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So this is my take.

I'm of Indian origin. I know multiple languages from India. I know 4. Then I know English as well as Spanish.

Now... words being used as descriptors have racial connotations in English because of historic abuse of said words by racists. This is something that's been said over centuries. Most obvious place being the USA.

Now... in India's most popular language, Hindi, there are entire cultures that comprises millions upon millions of people (I'm talking bigger than the whole of the United Kingdom), that use colour descriptors as casual friendly names. "Kaale" - which means black person - is used in certain parts of North India affectionately to call darker skinned Indians. It's even used by parents addressing their kids!! The same would apply inversely to call a fair skinned person - "Gore" or "white person". This is similar in Spanish as well. If I were to call VDB - "Guero" - which is used to describe a white blonde haired person, it may seem inappropriate to some cultures, but in Mexico it's acceptable usage. But "Gringo" is not exactly appropriate in Mexico, whereas I've heard comedy specials in the US use it without censorship!

Cavani should have been more aware of this, but the fact that he goes 33 years of his life being hailed a model player... to then suddenly "RACIST" the few months he's in an English speaking country says a lot.

The point here I'm trying to make is - different cultures have different ways of using words. What might appear offensive to one culture is not the same to another.

What matters most is TONE. Think about it. Cavani was thanking his fan who appreciated him. Do you really think he's dumb enough to go on social media at the age of 33, and thank a fan with a racial slur with a smile!?? Doesn't add up. Especially not someone as lowkey as Cavani.
 

antohan

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You would think he would have remembered the Suarez furore and been aware of what to say and not say.

He seems to be intelligent enough up to now
No way he would know the ins and outs of all the bullshit explanations from Liverpool and Suarez, he has better things to do and Suarez as a source he would take with a pinch of salt.

He would only definitely know these things for a fact:
  • Suarez was accused of making racist remarks to a rival player... and that Suarez isn't racist
  • Suarez always does everything he can to unsettle a defender... definitely the sort of thing he would have done, "oh well, tough shit Luis"
  • He is not like Suarez at all... so there was nothing for him to learn from it or worry about
Until he he says "gracias negrito" to a mate and people go apeshit
 

GazTheLegend

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I know in Latin countries, Negrito is something you say to your best mate or brother. He obviously didn't intend it to cause offence. It's a bit different to Suarez and Evra who hated each other on the pitch.

I think the anti-Utd side of the media will have a field day with this.
They already are. Using it as an excuse to not even talk about our game and brush over it on talksport before they are on to the next subject.

Whereas if we lost, well, another hour of hot takes.

Hope nothing happens but I fully expect a 3 match ban. Intent, to me, dictates it should be a warning or educational opportunity but the FA simply can't afford to be seen as slack on it so they will hammer us as per.
 

hungrywing

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So basically what it means is 'my close buddy/mate'.

No one with half a brain cell will think he meant what he posted offensively.

Sounds a bit like the whole 'cnut/mate' thing in the commonwealth nations: If someone close to you calls you a 'cnut', it's all good. If a total stranger calls you 'oi, mate', get out your brass knuckles and/or .50 cal.
 

Sandikan

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You'd have thought by now that clubs the size of United would insist on final sign off of their players' tweets to avoid this sort of nonsense blowing up.
 

RoyH1

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You'd have thought by now that clubs the size of United would insist on final sign off of their players' tweets to avoid this sort of nonsense blowing up.
There are limits to what an employer can allow itself when policing their employees private social media accounts.

What they should have (if they don't have already), is workshops and courses to introduce players and staff to the perils of social media and give them some useful guidelines. Specially in the case of non-Anglo players who can be specially vulnerable due to their ignorance of what can constitute offensive behaviour in the US or the UK.
 

DRM

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Damn! Listening to the radio, 3 game ban incoming
 

reelworld

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This is just dumb though. Something being culturally acceptable in one place doesn't even make it okay for you to do it there let alone anywhere else. Lots of unpleasant things that are culturally acceptable shouldn't be.

The question is, is using racially derived terms of endearment something we should be okay with? The answer is obviously no, they're unnecessary, even when meant well.

The question is how to address it, likely pointing this out to Cavani would be sufficient, but the correct response to the inevitably heavy handed response by the FA isn't to pretend it isn't an issue.
Yeah, this one doesn't fly.
The only one who can say it's okay or not is the one who are embedded in that culture. The fact that it's acceptable make it a culture for those people.
You can't decide which one is okay and which one is not for another group of people.
 

RashyForPM

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Plenty of people understand that, which is why they aren't calling for Cavani to be banned for an extended period. Understanding isn't a synonym for ignoring, it's possible to understand the cultural differences between two countries and still consider that an action isn't right.
Then I’m pretty sure we are in agreement. I’m just saying the FA couldn’t come down hard on Cavani, or they are being discriminatory themselves. I’m arguing that Cavani has a good reason (term of endearment in Uruguay) as to why he used ‘negrito’, not that he is right. Imo, he shouldn’t be banned, but simply given a short piece of education.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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Every day we stray further from the point of these things. Context has slowly been leaving our language for awhile now and a big part of that is this horrific cancel culture that aims to vilify anything and everyone. Never in a million years is Cavani being racist which surely is the point. If he gets a ban then cancel culture wins again and you wonder why so many people then choose to turn against it...
 

Denis' cuff

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There are obviously some contentious points here but comparing to Suarez is absurd.

There was obvious malice from Suarez and apart from the “negrito”, there was also the “hey blackie” and “I don’t talk to blacks”. Horrible little specimen.

youve got to be a fecking idiot to see offence here, apart from the fact Ed has been in the country a few weeks, not years
 

Tom Cato

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Rasism should always be met with severe consequenes. Period.

Context however matters in all things. You can't go looking for reasons to be offended when no offense was ever intended.
 

antohan

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Do you even know if his friend his black? It may, or it may not be.

You want to ban a Spanish word from common use because it sounds relatively similar to an offensive word in English. That's not only indefensible from a logical point of view, it's also extremely patronizing for hundreds of millions of people.

How should we Portuguese do? Stop referring to black people all together? We can't use the word preto because we're not racists, we can't use the word negro because you think it's offensive. Perhaps we should create a new word to accomodate your anglo-centric sensibility.
I thought about that earlier but unfortunattely whichever new word is invented to say black will still mean black so it lands you back at square one. We just have to get rid of the colour altogether.
 

cyberman

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It's not racist in the context it was used. Indeed, the FA's judgement against Suarez found that the term Cavani used is not racist in a friendly context.

Suarez got done because the FA found it implausible that Suarez could have been using it in a friendly way during an argument. Also contradictions in Suarez's testimony made them doubt his version of events. Contrasting this the FA found no reason to doubt Evra's evidence.
Suarez never used that word?
Which was hilarious since their fans spent weeks detailing how it wasnt racist.
 

KM

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There's no chance of Cavani being banned for that post. He'll be most likely given a verbal warning and stuff.
 

GDaly95

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The amount of times I've had heated arguments with Liverpool supporting mates over the Suarez incident, where I said it was utterly racist and they said it was a completely acceptable term in his culture.

The hole this fecker has just put me in.. I'm gonna get so many messages today
 

VojjE

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It reminds me of the Bernado Silva and Mendy situation. The problem is not what he is saying to a friend, even if i personally think its a stupid word to use, but more that he put it up on Instagram for the world to see.
Now its open for people who actually get hurt seeing such words used to see, and then its no good.

What did Bernado get? A one match ban? Similar to Cavani i think is fair, and i also hope that someone talks to him about using that, or similar, words and explain that for many people around the world its hurtfull to see such words.

Also he is a superstar, so even if it was ”harmless” to a friend he should think about that he is a rolemodel and that people looks up to him. Thats also why i dont think this should go without punishment. We dont want racist cnuts saying ”well, Cavani said it and did not get punished so either should i”
Quite a bit of difference comparing a friend to a tasteless caricature of a black person and saying "thank you my friend".
 

markhughes

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It’s a tricky one but as there has been recent precedent it has to be a small ban and a fine, it’s clearly not the same as Suarez though.

I would imagine that the club briefed Cavani on language that is deemed unacceptable (even if it’s not really) within our country, if not then we should have.
 

cyberman

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The amount of times I've had heated arguments with Liverpool supporting mates over the Suarez incident, where I said it was utterly racist and they said it was a completely acceptable term in his culture.

The hole this fecker has just put me in.. I'm gonna get so many messages today
In his hearing, their lawyers admitted he didnt even use the word negrito which made their social media campaign all the more hilarious.
So tell them to stick it.
 

Super Hans

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why? it seems he is talking to another uruguayan, why he has to talk in a way that the english think it is appropiate?
Was it a fellow Uruguayan? Interesting. How can you stop people talking to their countrymen in a way that is completely acceptable in their culture? Instagram is not England’s jurisdiction.
 

RedChisel

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The UK has no right to get on its high horse about foreigners being racist let's be honest. Racism is still a massive problem in this country and we should be looking at ourselves before we start preaching about stuff like this.
 

KeanoMagicHat

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Why do the media keep reporting it's the word Suarez used to Evra as a matter of fact when nowhere does it say that word in the actual court transcripts?
 
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