FA to investigate Edinson Cavani | This thread is taking a break

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sammsky1

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Sammsky is this close to suggesting that anyone who sets foot in England should speak only in English
Nope. I speak 3 or 4 languages when in this country. I just make sure not to use words that will hurt others because of race in all of them. It’s not that hard.
 
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So, a three match ban next season then?
They're best getting them all out of their system quickly? Hold off and by 2022, it'll probably be a lifetime ban from worldwide football.
got a friend suggesting he should be banned for 8 games as Suarez was banned for 8 games for saying the same thing. When I pointed out the article, and the admission, he said it was the same thing.
I'd suggest calling him a name but that's probably now deemed offensive to people who..... .... enjoy themselves
People could also stop being absolute morons, would go a long way
Funny story (not really) but the Welsh word for carrot is moron :)

I call my daughter's boyfriend "moron" and tell him it's because he's ginger.... when actually, it's because he's a City fan.

Either way, I'm offending millions of people I'm sure and accept my 1 thread ban from the Caf.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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Safe to say that Cavani isn't some far-right neo-nazi who hates every minority on earth. However, racism isn't just violence and hatred with direct hate speech towards people of different ethnicity. It's also stereotypes and perpetuating them by using a certain type of language, making a certain type of jokes etc. What you do or say can be racist despite you not being racist yourself. This needs to understood if we want to get rid of racism in football. Again, I'm not saying that Cavani is a racist, but for the FA, who publicly supports BLM and been throwing various anti-racist campaigns for decades, it would sure be counterintuitive to just dismiss this case as a cultural difference thing.

I am from a country that is so white that you could easily live your entire life without seeing a black person on the street, and where the n-word has been the main word to describe the black people, until about 10 years ago the official grammar and language board added the "*negative connotation" behind it, a lot of older people are now furious because "that's how we've always called them!". I also remember back in middle-school all these white kids who just discovered Eminem and 50 Cent went around the school calling each other n***as, very endearing isn't it. Were they all racists? Probably not. Was their use of language racist out of ignorance? Yes. Would have they been in trouble if they went on a trip to London or NY acting like that? Yes. Cavani isn't a kid or a grandpa from Eastern Europe, though, he should be more aware of things like that.

What I'd like to say is that, let the FA do their thing and let's hope they make the right decision. Cavani is a big boy, he'll live and learn from it. No point of yelling "PC gone too far" and "stop the cancel culture". If we want to get rid of racism in the Premier League, things like this will also have to be addressed, let's not play victims here, it's for the greater good. Need to break some eggs to make an omlette and all that.
Your egg just went into my Omlette du Blockáge.
 
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Non-spanish speakers defining how Latin American people should talk is always equally ridiculous. Literal cultural imperialism. Subtle racism exists in Spanish language too, but this ain’t it.

I think he will get a two-match ban. One more than Bernardo Silva got, because of the different political circumstances of making such comment in 2020 as opposed to 2019. Shouldn’t get anything, but won’t get away with it surely.
I find it strange people are saying this is somehow telling South American's can talk.

This is simply about respecting the social norms in the country Cavani has move to and now works in.

When I spent years in Japan it took time to learn the customs there and there's english sayings and phrases I wouldn't use over there because it wouldn't go down well. That's wasn't a case of Japanese people telling English how to speak, just me trying to be respectful and assimilate into the country I chose to move to.
 

antohan

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The Swaztika Is sign from ancient Hindu and Buddhist culture and connotes divinity or deep spiritualism inside India or Thailand.

but Nazi Germans culturally appropriated a version of this sign and it remains hugely offensive inside countries like U.K. today.

despite Hinduism owning this sign centuries before British people because aware of it, British Hindu’s are extremely careful how it is used inside U.K. and would never ever display in a public context, despite it meaning something very positive for them.
Thanks, I can clearly see the parallelism between "thanks negrito :thumbsup:" on Instagram and genocide.

It actually has saddened me for years that such a meaningful cultural icon gets cast aside due to fear of the reactions it may elicit. It's a concession, a small victory for Nazism, that shouldn't be allowed. I can see why they are careful and self-impose compliance, but it's a fundamentally flawed outcome.

Actually, yeah, I can see the parallelism, let's all bend over and let other people's mistakes cleanse us all from cultural nuances.
 

RedDevil@84

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Nope. I speak 3 or 4 languages when in this country. I just make sure not to use words that will hurt others because of race in all of them. It’s not that hard.
No. You are doing much more than that.
You are also suggesting that non-English languages should get rid of the words that sound similar to racist slurs in England.
 

SuperiorXI

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I find it strange people are saying this is somehow telling South American's can talk.

This is simply about respecting the social norms in the country Cavani has move to and now works in.

When I spent years in Japan it took time to learn the customs there and there's english sayings and phrases I wouldn't use over there because it wouldn't go down well. That's wasn't a case of Japanese people telling English how to speak, just me trying to be respectful and assimilate into the country I chose to move to.
The point is what Cavani said is neither a saying nor a phrase in the UK.
 

Berbasbullet

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And I won’t because that is not the subject of this thread.
PS I’ve never used to word since I became properly educated in homophobia. You can choose to do otherwise.
Eh? I only use it to order a lovely meal! Because words have context behind them and anyone with a working brain can tell the difference.
 

Stacks

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Do we need to ban Pata Negra?
El Gato Negro is one of my favourite restaurants, I can’t believe all this time it’s been racist.
La Bodega Negra Bar is out then.

Perhaps then, we should get rid of calling /classifying peope white, black, yellow, brown etc. Besides, I live in England and I've never seen a white person, a black person or any other colour classification of any kind of person. Utterly ridiculous this is still happening today.
You have never heard someone say "white guy, black guy?" etc. That's fascinating. I live in London and this is standard. We play football at powerleague and my black teammates would refer to the "Turkish boys" in reference to one of the teams that only had Turkish/Cypriot players. People say "white boy" all the time, where I am from. "Terry the really good striker from XYZ team, you know the white boy?" Often when people describe based off race, gender, height, weight, hair colour etc as people come in all shapes and sizes and its easier and quicker to identify people. It doesn't have to be offensive IMO.
 

Offsideagain

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Silva at City got a ban for using the same term about Mendy. What about ‘Black Friday’? Has that upset anyone? If you called someone a ‘Scouse ****’ is that racist? I fully understand that people of colour are discriminated against in all walks of life but so are others. I read somewhere that having a strong brummie accent is an issue in some quarters.
Anyway, the FA will have to give Cavani a ban or be seen to be biased especially after Clarke had to resign for stereotyping employees at the FA.
 

UncleBob

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Silva at City got a ban for using the same term about Mendy. What about ‘Black Friday’? Has that upset anyone? If you called someone a ‘Scouse ****’ is that racist? I fully understand that people of colour are discriminated against in all walks of life but so are others. I read somewhere that having a strong brummie accent is an issue in some quarters.
Anyway, the FA will have to give Cavani a ban or be seen to be biased especially after Clarke had to resign for stereotyping employees at the FA.
No :lol:
Silva didn't use the same term about Mendy
 

harrington

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Because of little Englanders with chips on their shoulders who havnt got the brains to see that a world of different language and culture exists outside their little island. Not saying that’s you at all.
I doubt it will be 'Little Englanders' objecting (you can easily imagine them interpreting Cavani's message in a fixed and superficial way and being apologists for what he wrote, or using it to sneak one agenda in under the cover of another); it'll be - if we have to use a broad categorisation - culturally educated 'progressives' who are probably wrestling with the complexities of this the most.
 

Cascarino

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Suspending a Chinese professor, because he used a Chinese word in a Chinese class might be the most 2020 thing ever.

The only context there is that whoever suspended him are total morons.
For the sake of clarity I just want to point out it wasn’t a Chinese professor, and it wasn’t a Chinese class. It’s also common practise to suspend an employee while an investigation takes place for a plethora of reasons. It of course was a pretty damn stupid complaint, but the investigation fully exonerated the professor.
 

Zlatan 7

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Nope. I speak 3 or 4 languages when in this country. I just make sure not to use words that will hurt others because of race in all of them. It’s not that hard.
But you didn’t know the word negrito, so how do you know you’re also not using words in your language but not aware they cause offence to someone?
 

VorZakone

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That blew my mind in New Zealand. I worked with maybe 60% Chinese staff for about a year.

“I think we’ll start on this house.... niggaah.... No, the second one first actually”

Every person would make that noise every few minutes.
:lol:
 

iluvoursolskjær

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English has a history of borrowing words from other cultures, which is why negro exists in our dictionaries. We use the word black. We don't have the 'ito' suffix, either.

As I noted earlier, negrito is an idiomatic word that can't be translated literally to achieve an understanding of context. What it comes down to is the English language policing other languages because a word looks like one that's offensive in English.
I think 'policing language' is the wrong way to think of it here, isn't it rather to have sensitivity to the cultural norms of this society? Where the word Negro [which was borrowed in the first place because the Spanish used to in reference to the enslaved Bantu people] has negative connotations?
 

Charles Miller

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Its not racism in South América in that context. In Brazil we use the portuguese version of that word to white people too
 

Righteous Steps

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What the feck are you going on about? The natives weren't black and slaves were few and far apart as you don't need slaves to raise cattle, they were channeled to tropical regions with massive plantations so Europe could get a steady supply of sugar and chocolate.
What the feck are you going on about?

At one point Buenos Aires population was 1/3 black.

There was obviously a conscious and subconscious agenda to erase the countries African population.
 

#07

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Suarez, boot on other foot. If this was a Liverpool player then.....
If this was a Liverpool player then nothing because it wouldn't be offensive.

What the feck are you going on about?

At one point Buenos Aires population was 1/3 black.

There was obviously a conscious and subconscious agenda to erase the countries African population.
This is true. Mexico also eliminated a lot of its Black population.

However, this doesn't change the fact that by the common conventions of today's Spanish (as opposed to Spanish 100+ years ago) Cavani didn't say anything offensive.
 
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A lot of people in this thread don't seem able to distinguish between personal and professional context.

Cavani's not going to stop talking as he does in his personal life. But in his professional life he has different expectations and obligations. And yes footballer's official social media pages are part of their professional sphere.

We all are likely to have a bit of a more professional persona at work and know that there's things we say in our privacy we wouldn't say in a professional setting.

Cavani has just learnt something not to say in a professional setting in the UK. It takes time adapting to living in a new culture, particularly hard in the public eye.

And before anyone start saying 'negrito' doesn't mean anything in the UK. Yes is does, and we all know none of you are going to start saying the word in meetings or any other work setting you're in.
 

antohan

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:)

Is that you? "the South American poster"?

Why do people feel the need to label you? The irony?
Think it was Marcos, but we had both made a very similar post re: nicknames based on distinctive physical traits. There were also a few others but we all fall under the one label, clearly.

Insight of the day though was someone pointing out something I somehow have missed throughout all these years: on our screens ever since Conan the Barbarian, the ex-Governor of California, Arnold Blackn*igger.

Of course, he got away with decades of making people regularly mouth that double slur because schwarz is nowhere near as similar to negro as negrito.
 

Dr. Dwayne

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I think 'policing language' is the wrong way to think of it here, isn't it rather to have sensitivity to the cultural norms of this society?
Isn't that policing?

Where the word Negro [which was borrowed in the first place because the Spanish used to in reference to the enslaved Bantu people] has negative connotations?
Negro and negrito are two different words, though. That's the point, we're putting our own definition on a word because of how it looks, not what it actually means.
 

Revan

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For the sake of clarity I just want to point out it wasn’t a Chinese professor, and it wasn’t a Chinese class. It’s also common practise to suspend an employee while an investigation takes place for a plethora of reasons. It of course was a pretty damn stupid complaint, but the investigation fully exonerated the professor.
It was a course on using filler words in foreign languages.

Despite him being exonerated, the suspension in itself was absurd. It is not really common to suspend professors, that happens only in the rarest of occasions. Actually, I do not know a single professor who has been suspended in my 10 years of being at universities.
 

Jam

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It was a course on using filler words in foreign languages.

Despite him being exonerated, the suspension in itself was absurd. It is not really common to suspend professors, that happens only in the rarest of occasions. Actually, I do not know a single professor who has been suspended in my 10 years of being at universities.

It’s not that common for Professors to be investigated after a formal complaint of racial language though.

But in cases of Professors to be investigated after formal complaints of racial language a temporary suspension would be common.
 

antohan

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He should know better or get better advisors, I also refuse to believe someone so close to Suarez wouldn't have known about the previous incident.

Anyway, he's done the right thing and apologised.
Of course he would. Would he have been aware of the details on how Liverpool threw up a lot of shit to see what sticks? Nope, he would just know he was banned for racially abusing a black player, and he would have known that was very likely true given how Suarez goes about trying to rile up and unsettle defenders, biting them if needs be. There was no lesson or insight for him in it all seeing as he is nothing like Suarez and would never do anything of the sort. The whole negro/negrito defence fiasco would have never registered with him.

And yes, fully expected him to apologise and crack on, if they let him.
 

Berbasbullet

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Hardly bollocks. I've lived here my whole life and have never heard anyone say it or heard of anyone saying it.
Innit, outside the Suarez rubbish I had never heard of it, unless he means negro which is obviously different.
 

mu4c_20le

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I find it strange people are saying this is somehow telling South American's can talk.

This is simply about respecting the social norms in the country Cavani has move to and now works in.
What's really strange is that the word is only offensive because it had been racially charged by white people, the same people telling others that it is no longer acceptable now.
 

RedDevil@84

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A lot of people in this thread don't seem able to distinguish between personal and professional context.

Cavani's not going to stop talking as he does in his personal life. But in his professional life he has different expectations and obligations. And yes footballer's official social media pages are part of their professional sphere.

We all are likely to have a bit of a more professional persona at work and know that there's things we say in our privacy we wouldn't say in a professional setting.

Cavani has just learnt something not to say in a professional setting in the UK. It takes time adapting to living in a new culture, particularly hard in the public eye.

And before anyone start saying 'negrito' doesn't mean anything in the UK. Yes is does, and we all know none of you are going to start saying the word in meetings or any other work setting you're in.
Don't think anyone is suggesting Cavani should not have deleted his post or should not have issued an apology.
People are arguing mostly on whether the word "negrito" should be default be a banned word in the country and some people suggesting that other languages should have words removed from them.
 
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