You're being wilfully ignorant if you think only white people have an issue with this phrase being used in the UK.
FA to investigate Edinson Cavani | This thread is taking a break
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Even then, Suarez used a different word and he is also Uruguayan.
I'm sure you mean 'pedants.'
Cavani dropped a ballock but its not near Suarez level. Even tamer than with Silva/Mendy as this was purely cultural. A 1 game ban and some education then let people forget about it. A simple mistake.
Agree.
As if being called Arnold wasn't bad enough?!
I imagine some of the posters in this thread are tweeting/Instagramming him and telling him to change his name... or never visit the UK ever again.
The irony
Talk about pedants. Let's start using a word we never use so that Gary can make his point. Why would we do that?
Suddenly we are claiming English owns the term. It keeps getting better.
And that's your choice, mine is never eat such a primitive sounding food
I'm going round in circles, and nothing I've read has changed my mind so far. Given Im a British born citizen, I can only speak for what I think is OK inside UK. I believe all people have to adjust to certain current cultural norms. Football decided to get fully on board with the war against racism, to the extent that every player takes a knee now before a game in played. That is the dominant and most relevant cultural context in this instance. Cavani is well aware of this.
Cavani was either completely forgetful and extremely naive in his use of the word in his post. But in a culture of zero tolerance no matter what, he made a mistake and will now have to bear those consequences (very annoying as Im a massive fan of his football). I've already said perhaps he shouldn't be banned game time, but that's now upto FA and its pre written regulations, which Cavani would have agreed to in his contract.
Those seeking to normalise such language on the basis of foreign language context can bleat on as much as they like. After 400 years of thinking they could decide what was racially offensive to people of colour, they are now swimming against the tide. They don't get to decide anymore, as the club and player have admitted with their unreserved apology and withdrawal of the post.
Into 21st century UK culture, all perceived racist language used inside UK will have to evolve. It may take a generation, and current resistors may never change, but that's small change in context of the 400+ years it took for these norms to be created.
That's how I feel. And I find it very very easy to abide by such in 4 different languages I speak.
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Stop telling people of another country to educate themselves about their own culture you racist.
It baffles me that the first thing the United diversity team didn't stress to him was to not use that word anywhere after the entire mishap with Suarez.
Yups. Correr in Spain is slang for cumming. Fell foul of that one too at a meeting with the management of "El Corte Inglés" (fancy department stores). Asked about how I was doing I said I had spent all day "a las corridas" (meant running around one meeting after the other, they heard I had spent all day jizzing).
I do my best not to use skin colour to define how I see people. And if I do, and people tell me that was not a pleasant experience for them, I adjust and evolve next time.
Your last line is ok. The rest is a lot of wtf
Stop lying by accrediting false words to me.
I'd never heard the word before yesterday night. I second I heard it, my instant reaction was it's unacceptable in UK no matter the circumstance. I think that would be the reaction of any racially abused, sensitive or empathic person in UK too.
Has the entire fecking history of black oppression passed you by?
Things aren’t decided to be offensive by white people, if some of you get your heads out of your arse for a while and listened to people you’d see the majority of black people would be offended by a white person calling them negrito or little black or w/e synonym over here.
Cavani obviously isn’t a racist, but he used racially insensitive language as an employee in England (of a very diverse staff, community and fandom) and if he got a one game ban he couldn’t really complain about it.
No one is calling for his head, this isn’t some apocalyptic PC crisis. The French aren’t stealing your fish, and your life still matters. He said something that could be taken be people as unpleasant, will get a slap on his wrist, and will move on. The world will keep turning.
Don´t you use that word too? I have that problem with "coger"The poster said bollocks if people hadn’t heard that in the uk. I can tell you I don’t think I’ve ever come across the word negrito, you also said you hadn’t.
You basically want to ban all words that even sound like words you don’t like
In fairness, it almost makes a nice change of pace from footballers sliding into things in an attempt to slide into other things on Instagram.
How dare you lie and say I never heard of a word until yesterday!
Anyway I came across the word last night....
The word was used because in Spanish it means Black. Having derived from the word 'Niger', the Latin for 'Black' e.g. the Roman Emperor Gaius Pescennius Niger Justus -- A name I've always loved because via liberal translation the last two parts can be made to read 'Black Justice' or 'Black Righteousness', which basically sounds like a character from a 1970s Blaxploitation movie.
Just because some sodding, Northern European slaver decided to employ a loan word and it caught on, it doesn't mean we have the right to police how Spanish is spoken. It sounds bad in English because of how English speakers decided to use it. It does not have the same weight in Spanish. That's not to say Spanish is without racially charged words or that Iberia or Iberian America are bastions of tolerance. They got problems, just like everywhere else. The key thing however is that what Cavani said is not an example of those problems.
This was my takeaway too! Surely they should give any new South American player a quick lesson on what not to say after that debacle.
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Who? Who would be offended? Everyone I know is taking the piss and laughing about it. The last time any of us heard this was when Suarez tried to pretend he didn’t say Negro.
Negrito doesn’t mean ‘Little Black’. If you’re not smart enough to understand languages, you shouldn’t comment. There must be loads of other stuff you’re knowledgeable about. Talk about them instead.
Yes, very easy
You are having a mare in this thread. From comparing this with the Evra-Suárez incident, when you clearly didn't bother to look into why Suárez was banned, to this.
Maybe you should start a World Language Police since it's apparently very easy to fix this?
Obviously shouldn’t be banned at all, as there’s no intent to cause offence here and, arguably, what he said isn’t offensive anyway given cultural norms. This should very much be a case of him having apologised, explained he meant no harm (as I think everyone accepts) and the world moving on. However, if he is banned, it’s a minimum of 3 matches as I understand the rule.
I don't consider it policing to ask someone to understand that some words our languages share have totally different meanings and connotations. They don't have to stop using it in their private lives, just be mindful about using certain words on a public platform whilst living in a different society. Is it only me that finds this a reasonable thing? Plus private institutions like the FA are allowed to and will have their own guidelines.
I understand the word is an expression in its' own framework. Negro is simply a colour to them and little black person means a completely different thing to some people. I still find the connotations even the word in Spanish has picked up over time [enslaved Bantu people around 1400s] uncomfortable, but that's just my opinion.
If you are someone who does not "immediately understand the context", but who is nonetheless offended by the use of the word "negrito" (implying you consider it an offensive term), you're simply ignorant - surely?
If you know something about the potentially very problematic use of the term "negrito" as a term of endearment - you would not be offended by a random person using it (because it's incredibly widespread to the point of being generic - and it obviously is not "racist" in any meaningful sense per default).
Should English football take a stance against the use of a problematic (but incredibly widespread) term of endearment in another language?
Of course not. Other and far more qualified people than the FA should deal with this issue. Cavani hasn't done anything beyond using a perfectly normal (and non-controversial) term in his own language.
Again lying by accrediting false words to me. Stop it or I'll report you next time
I think language that hurt's people because of their skin color should be banned.
And I think that people who are against this or refuse to change after being asked to are inherently racist.
Hope that is clear.
apparently a lot of escaped Nazi's went there too. no joke
The way he talks, full stop, might well change over time (which would represent an instance of personal cultural development). It's in the nature of advanced social cultures to be constantly modifying and evolving (you practically define them that way); it's only less advanced (in momentum terms) or more isolated cultures that tend to stay fixed and immutable, and any 'fixed' culture with rigid mores is, in a sense, a dying culture.
Spanish speakers have a completely different approach to racism and diversity than British people. In Spain, for example, a corner shop is called 'el Paki' and a general-purpose shop is called 'el Chino' because they're often run by Chinese people. I believe South America is similar. In the UK that sort of language is totally frowned upon, and rightly so.
It's possible to view this one of two ways: on one hand Cavani was talking in his own language to a friend who shares his cultural viewpoint, so we shouldn't be applying our own cultural filter to him. On the other hand he's working in the UK so has to accept the British approach.
The most sensible thing would probably be a stern warning but I can see him getting banned for this, for the sake of consistency.
It's possible to view this one of two ways: on one hand Cavani was talking in his own language to a friend who shares his cultural viewpoint, so we shouldn't be applying our own cultural filter to him. On the other hand he's working in the UK so has to accept the British approach.
The most sensible thing would probably be a stern warning but I can see him getting banned for this, for the sake of consistency.
Right, when there are shared words I'd agree. In the case of negro, definintely because it's been used in English in the past to describe people with dark skin. Negrito, on the other hand, is not a word I've heard used in English, so I wouldn't apply the same criteria to its use.
Here you are ascribing a literal translation to negrito, which is not absolute. This lack of understanding the nuances of idioms, is the root of the discussion.I understand the word is an expression in its' own framework. Negro is simply a colour to them and little black person means a completely different thing to some people. I still find the connotations even the word in Spanish has picked up over time [enslaved Bantu people around 1400s] uncomfortable, but that's just my opinion.
Keep seeing this about education... please explain how should we educate him on his own language? Not necessarily directed at you as I've seen it said many times just curious on what is meant by it.
any type of ban would be complete nonsense, this is an absolute non story
''its about education'' yes, the english need to educate themselves to the way the rest of the world converse, just because a similar word may be used by your brexit mates, doesn't mean this is the same. just waiting for scandal when the american girls from the woman's side mention one of their new team mates has a nice fanny.
''its about education'' yes, the english need to educate themselves to the way the rest of the world converse, just because a similar word may be used by your brexit mates, doesn't mean this is the same. just waiting for scandal when the american girls from the woman's side mention one of their new team mates has a nice fanny.
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I'm sure anyone that it might affect who doesn't know the word because of their unfamiliarity with another language wouldn't necessarily associate the Spanish phrase with a similar but different word that is racist. It sounds similar but if you don't know what it means, I doubt the Spanish phrase is an issue for those people in the UK. If you have a person in the UK that might be affected because they're aware of the phrase and what it means in Spanish, they're probably also aware of the cultural difference and able to distinguish between racist usage of the word or similar words, and a completely innocent sentence ment to greet or express gratitude.
There might be some football dudes of any skin in the uk that recognise the phrase and might think it's inherently racist just because of the way Suarez tried to use that exact phrase to excuse racism towards Evra. He used that excuse because the word isn't that uncommon and often used in a friendly way. This is my understanding of it anyway.
That isn’t my point. How the feck are you missing it?
You’re tying affectionally calling your friends black in with other affectionate insults. Over here we’d say “you lanky prick” or “you bald bastard” but it’s never acceptable to say “oh come here you black cnut”. It’s not the intention behind it at all - that much has been made clear. It’s just wrong to say that, and proves that deep rooted racism is still an issue in your country.
In a way, be thankful it’s more down to things like this than say disproportionate incarceration or even death by cop.
This. It's an unintended mistake, due to cultural difference. An unfortunate occurrence, that if it were up to me, just warrant a warning and requirement to be educated.
But that Silva/Mendy case set the precedent, and hopefully everyone involved is being sensible about this.
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