FA to investigate Edinson Cavani | This thread is taking a break

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crossy1686

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The UK has no right to get on its high horse about foreigners being racist let's be honest. Racism is still a massive problem in this country and we should be looking at ourselves before we start preaching about stuff like this.
Isn't that what this is? Are you suggesting we should ignore racism if it's done by foreigners in the UK because it's preaching?
 

sullydnl

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A small ban similar to the one Bernardo Silva got would be appropriate.

Obviously he didn't mean to cause offence and obviously the are cultural differences at play.

However, when you post something on social media you aren't just sharing it with your friend, you're publishing it for the world to see, react to and have an opinion on. And the culture that counts is the one you are now working within, because that's the one that dictates if/how you will be punished for social media posts. And in this case he has said something he shouldn't have said. Simple as that.

Hopefully it's a case of apologising, accepting a small ban and moving on. As opposed to either receiving a bigger ban for some reason or making ourselves look like twats by whinging about a small ban.
 

crossy1686

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If Cavani can prove this is a common (and non offensive) interaction between Uruguayans, he won't receive a ban. It would how ever be very typical of the FA to tell him his culture is savage and uncouth, then slap him with a ban so we'll see what happens.
 

wolvored

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The FA will have to ban him otherwise they set a precedent for others to say similar. He won't get as long as Suarez as it was said in a different light. My guess would be 3 games and a big fine.
 

Zed 101

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I don't get what it is in reference to though? thanks black, to what does it refer..... things can be referred to as being black without it being racist, depends on how it was used
 

ZupZup

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The FA should not punish Cavani for this. It would be completely unfair.

He used the word as a term of endearment which in his own culture is perfectly normal. He probably would not have even considered that it might seem unacceptable here unless he has been told... which is obviously what has happened since.

If anything, punishment would seem a bit xenophobic as you’d have to completely ignore his own cultural differences to say he has done something wrong.
 

DoomSlayer

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Another stick to beat United with. The media will create a shitstorm out of this as they are desperate for monetary gains in these tough times.
 

#07

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The FA will have to ban him otherwise they set a precedent for others to say similar. He won't get as long as Suarez as it was said in a different light. My guess would be 3 games and a big fine.
How can the FA ban him when part of the reasoning given for banning Suarez was context dependent? It would contradict the FA vs Suarez judgement if he's banned. Paragraphs 353 to 355 of that judgement are explicit that the use of the term is not offensive in a friendly context. However, the FA found it implausible that Suarez's usage could be friendly given the context of a heated argument and the inconsistencies in his testimony about what happened.
 

VojjE

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I think it's strange to see so many posters say that there is nothing in it but still call for a swift one game ban just because they're worried about a lengthier one. How about he doesn't get an undue punishment and the authorities look at this for a bit longer and conclude from the context of this case and not based on previous ones?
 

Wolverine

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He deleted it, obviously will be apologetic. Will luck just a caution and cultural sensitivity mandatory lesson type thing, but a match ban wouldn't be surprising despite the cultural context stuff
 

RoyH1

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Every day we stray further from the point of these things. Context has slowly been leaving our language for awhile now and a big part of that is this horrific cancel culture that aims to vilify anything and everyone. Never in a million years is Cavani being racist which surely is the point. If he gets a ban then cancel culture wins again and you wonder why so many people then choose to turn against it...
Context matters so much in these things, but don't expect the fossils in the FA to get that.
My uncle (who is a half Spanish half Cuban native spanish speaker) calls his wife "gordita" which literally translated means "little fatty". They have been married 32 years and have 4 kids. Obviously the term can be extremely demeaning in certain situations said to certain people, but in their context, it is not. Quite the contrary.

Context is everything. Suárez did mean to hurt Evra with his words. Cavani is not using the word with any offensive intent. At least until and if we hear otherwise from the person he was addressing on Instagram.
 

Robin Van Cutie

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I’m a little surprised the FA is getting involved as it’s well out of their jurisdiction to judge friendly interactions between two Uruguayans.

For context, my partner is Uruguayan (Caucasian at that) and she uses a similar phrase when even referring to her Caucasian Uruguayan friends. It’s a term of endearment in general.

It’s clearly not the smartest thing to post for a variety of reasons, but I’d be disappointed if a ban comes out of.
 

reelworld

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The FA will have to ban him otherwise they set a precedent for others to say similar. He won't get as long as Suarez as it was said in a different light. My guess would be 3 games and a big fine.
I'd say good for them to be able to express whatever they want in their native tongues to each other
 

OleBoiii

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1. Context matters.
2. Intent matters.
3. Culture matters.
4. It's not remotely the same as the Suarez situation.

The FA are not favoring us or having double-standards should Cavani go unpunished. They'd be showing a display of common sense.

Generally I'm not a fan of cultural relativism, but I find it frustrating that a handful of countries that make up a combined 5-10% of the world population should be allowed to create a list of naughty words that always must go unpunished, regardless of context, and then potentially punish a South American for using said word affectionately towards another South American on the internet. According to that political compass test I'm almost as liberal and left-leaning as possible, but I find this whole situation really stupid. And it may not say much to the non-redditors in here, but the very fact that this story isn't on the front page on r/soccer despite breaking less than 24 hours ago, speaks volumes.
 
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Even if for the sake of argument we go with the assumption that Cavani used a racist term,

How does this come under the FA's jurisdiction? Not during a game, on the pitch, or anybFA regulated environment.
They surely shouldn't have a say in the personal lives and conversation between two friends completely independent of the FA ecosystem.

Thoughts?
If the FA deem his actions to warrant punishment they would say he brought the game into disrepute by using an offensive term on social media.

There"s a long precedent for players falling foul of the governing body for things off the pitch.
 

Sandikan

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The amount of times I've had heated arguments with Liverpool supporting mates over the Suarez incident, where I said it was utterly racist and they said it was a completely acceptable term in his culture.

The hole this fecker has just put me in.. I'm gonna get so many messages today
Did Suarez actually use that negrito word though? There was so much debate but i thought it was other words and phrases used.
 

Suvvernmanc

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Context is everything. The very definition of racism has to include a level of hate in the way something is said. Suarez was aggressive in his tone and probably called him a negr*. The term that is prevalent in the Spanish language that simply means 'friend or mate' is what Cavani used and was used in a friendly tone. Hopefully the powers that be will not bow down to the media attempt to spin it to a racist tone.
 

Crimson King

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The amount of times I've had heated arguments with Liverpool supporting mates over the Suarez incident, where I said it was utterly racist and they said it was a completely acceptable term in his culture.

The hole this fecker has just put me in.. I'm gonna get so many messages today
Not sure if you or someone else can clear this up, but did Suarez actually use this word? I was under the impression this was the excuse Suarez provided, after the incident, but Evra maintained he'd used a different word?

Regardless, as many have already pointed out it's the context that's important. Suarez obviously wasn't using it as a term of endearment, to an opponent during one of the most hotly contested matches on the football calendar.

That's why it was racist in tone, and if your scouser mates don't understand that then it just shows their judgement has been clouded by loyalty. It's similar to calling your friend a cnut during a bit of banter, and then just shouting it in the face of someone who bought the last jumbo sausage roll in Gregg's that you had your eye on. There's obviously no racism involved in that example, but one is obviously meant to be aggressive and offend, which is what Suarez was trying to do to Evra.

For the record, I don't agree with what Cavani said, and although I understand the arguments of our South American members on this forum, I think that a footballer should always be careful with the language that they use in the public domain. You don't want kids picking that up, because in our culture it is almost always deemed offensive to bring skin colour into language, and for good reason.

I am a little bit upset at how it's already being covered though, especially how it's being compared to the Suarez incident. It just isn't the same, and it only undermines incidents like that and Terry v Ferdinand. It's a missed opportunity to educate people, especially on the UK's racist past and why it's important to understand that before you can start to really make important changes.

Instead they'll just carpet ban a player without any real discussion on these matters, because it's easier to do that than really be introspective and try and make real changes, and then you'll get the usual 'cancel culture' talk and how the worlds gone 'PC mad'.

If the FA ban him for 3 games then I can understand their intentions might be in the right place, but it's horribly misguided.
 

KM

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Not sure if you or someone else can clear this up, but did Suarez actually use this word? I was under the impression this was the excuse Suarez provided, after the incident, but Evra maintained he'd used a different word?

Regardless, as many have already pointed out it's the context that's important. Suarez obviously wasn't using it as a term of endearment, to an opponent during one of the most hotly contested matches on the football calendar.

That's why it was racist in tone, and if your scouser mates don't understand that then it just shows their judgement has been clouded by loyalty. It's similar to calling your friend a cnut during a bit of banter, and then just shouting it in the face of someone who bought the last jumbo sausage roll in Gregg's that you had your eye on. There's obviously no racism involved in that example, but one is obviously meant to be aggressive and offend, which is what Suarez was trying to do to Evra.

For the record, I don't agree with what Cavani said, and although I understand the arguments of our South American members on this forum, I think that a footballer should always be careful with the language that they use in the public domain. You don't want kids picking that up, because in our culture it is almost always deemed offensive to bring skin colour into language, and for good reason.

I am a little bit upset at how it's already being covered though, especially how it's being compared to the Suarez incident. It just isn't the same, and it only undermines incidents like that and Terry v Ferdinand. It's a missed opportunity to educate people, especially on the UK's racist past and why it's important to understand that before you can start to really make important changes.

Instead they'll just carpet ban a player without any real discussion on these matters, because it's easier to do that than really be introspective and try and make real changes, and then you'll get the usual 'cancel culture' talk and how the worlds gone 'PC mad'.

If the FA ban him for 3 games then I can understand their intentions might be in the right place, but it's horribly misguided.
NO. Suarez used the word "Negro"(admitted in his autobiography, and in FA report). The Negrito thing was a Liverpool PR Blitz which everyone fell for.
 

Pagh Wraith

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Ni te quemes Marquitos. Estamos equivocados y debemos someternos a su superioridad cultural. Fachos progre.
se caen de boludos
les iba a decir que uno de los mejores musicos uruguayos es el negro Rada y si le preguntan el mismo se llama Negro y nadie se ofende ni quiere ofender
Will you two please refrain from using this clearly racist foreign language in the future?
 

sullydnl

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Context is everything. The very definition of racism has to include a level of hate in the way something is said. Suarez was aggressive in his tone and probably called him a negr*. The term that is prevalent in the Spanish language that simply means 'friend or mate' is what Cavani used and was used in a friendly tone. Hopefully the powers that be will not bow down to the media attempt to spin it to a racist tone.
No, it doesn't.

For example, someone could dress up in blackface without any level of hate involved. It would still be racist and still be punished by the FA. Just as Bernardo Silva comparing a teammate to a racially-loaded cartoon character was punished by the FA. There was no intent on his part, or hatred involved and the context was friendly. But he still got punished because it's possible to say/do racist things through ignorance rather than through hatred. As a lot of the extended conversations on race in 2020 have made clear.

Intent matters but it isn't the be all and end all. In this case there was no intent on Cavani's part but he still shared something inappropriate with the world, which he then had to delete. Something that by the standards he works and operates in should be punished. That's the long and the short of it, really.
 

11101

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He's a South American speaking in his native language. I'm curious how a bunch of old white guys sitting in an FA boardroom have any idea what is or isn't racist in Uruguayan Spanish. It's quite clearly not racist or he wouldn't have plastered it all over his Instagram for the world to see.
 

Cassidy

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No, it doesn't.

For example, someone could dress up in blackface without any level of hate involved. It would still be racist and still be punished by the FA. Just as Bernardo Silva comparing a teammate to a racially-loaded cartoon character was punished by the FA. There was no intent on his part, or hatred involved and the context was friendly. But he still got punished because it's possible to say/do racist things through ignorance rather than through hatred. As a lot of the extended conversations on race in 2020 have made clear.

Intent matters but it isn't the be all and end all. In this case there was no intent on Cavani's part but he still shared something inappropriate with the world, which he then had to delete. Something that by the standards he works and operates in should be punished. That's the long and the short of it, really.
Thats not really a fact by the way, its not deemed inappropriate all over the world and especially not in Latin America
 
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A literal traslation would be "thanks blacky"
"Negro" means black (the colour), "ito" is a diminutive said with affection, like saying "doggie" instead of "dog"
What’s the equivalent phrase in English.... would it be the equivalent to talking to
A friend like this “thanks dog” or “what’s up dog” ? Dog can be an insult but clearly it’s also used positively, as is another word amongst urban groups in the U.K. and USA
 

Smores

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So disappointing to see the red tinted hypocrisy is out. Whilst he's an employee of this club and league what he said isn't acceptable, a small ban completely warranted.

More importantly what the hell are the club doing not communicating this message to our arriving players.
 

Zlatan 7

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Again, people can talk how they want in private. But when on public platforms they have to be mindful that they're not only representing their employer but are also bound by the FA's rules. If the FA deem something to 'bring the game into disrepute' etc. They will act accordingly.
good job we speak English then so we don’t risk being called racist or getting fines for using our own language
 

Mainoldo

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Hold a ban and we move. You can’t use that word in this country context or no context.
 

A-man

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If Cavani can prove this is a common (and non offensive) interaction between Uruguayans, he won't receive a ban. It would how ever be very typical of the FA to tell him his culture is savage and uncouth, then slap him with a ban so we'll see what happens.
It was clearly not meant to be offensive. Yes it would be the irony, that FA can come out as the racists if they punish someone for having a "savage culture".
 

carvajal

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Imagine this situation years ago with el negro Cáceres and el chino Recoba :lol:
Context matters so much in these things, but don't expect the fossils in the FA to get that.
My uncle (who is a half Spanish half Cuban native spanish speaker) calls his wife "gordita" which literally translated means "little fatty". They have been married 32 years and have 4 kids. Obviously the term can be extremely demeaning in certain situations said to certain people, but in their context, it is not. Quite the contrary.

Context is everything. Suárez did mean to hurt Evra with his words. Cavani is not using the word with any offensive intent. At least until and if we hear otherwise from the person he was addressing on Instagram.
Hehe me too :D
 

RedChisel

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Isn't that what this is? Are you suggesting we should ignore racism if it's done by foreigners in the UK because it's preaching?
That's not what I'm saying, it's just frustrating that the Daily Mail etc will be frothing about this but are silent or in denial when it comes to racism in wider society.
 
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golden_blunder

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The UK has no right to get on its high horse about foreigners being racist let's be honest. Racism is still a massive problem in this country and we should be looking at ourselves before we start preaching about stuff like this.
Though you could argue it’s right to clamp down on celebs as impressionable kids look up to them.
 
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