[NoPace]

We should probably get this number 9 you are talking about before getting too precious about Ten Hag's system. It's not like our other right wingers have offered all that much really.

If we sign more of a poacher who's not great linking up in false 9 spots, like Osimhen, then that would be good for Pellistri.

I don't think it's being precious to note that not having a high scoring #9 means we need serious goal threats at the other 3 most attacking spots and that Pellistri doesn't really profile as one, but does have a strong overall game and look like a good bet as a wide playmaker who can come in or beat his fullback outside.

Tough to see a 25+ goal player on the market, except maybe Vlahovic. I think we're more likely to find a Gabriel Jesus than an Aguero for instance.

 

[Fortitude]

Not from our perspective, no. If we are serious about him we shouldn't loan him at all.

If I were him though, I would seriously consider a permanent move there. Lots of money in Brazilian football these days and his style fits Flamengo and the competitions it plays in really well. He would be a rock star there.

After two years being ignored and stunted in his development as he has I would be excited about that far more than a loan at Leicester. Premier League or not, you just have to look at Andreas Pereira for what your career path looks like at this rate.

Surprised you would say that. Surely the more prudent option is exhaust your time at a giant and if that doesn't work out, then go elsewhere? Things change rapidly in football and from this juncture, that could be the case for Pellistri; we're known for excitedly handing out really big contracts, the likes of which, youngsters don't receive so handily elsewhere, so the financial incentives are right there for him, and I'm sure he and his agent know this. At least in terms of incentivisation, it makes more sense to stick around that bit longer than not.

I'd say the same for playing time, too. From making an impression and earning praise to then getting more playing time off the back of that is a pretty steep and rapid curve here. Sure enough, things haven't gone as they should thus far, but now is the time where that could be turned on its head, especially so with the form and competition at RW not being great. Even in rotation with Antony, there's potential to tally a lot of minutes whilst also leaving a stronger imprint of the player he is not for us, but potential suitors that could see him circumvent a lot of the snakes and ladders of going back and forth at smaller clubs that may otherwise be on the cards.

When you say there's lots of money in Brazilian football currently, how does that scale with what's potentially on offer here and in Europe in general? Bearing in mind he wouldn't be going there under the best of circumstances - to be a rock star, he'd have to earn that status, which surely wouldn't come about without some additional grind after getting there on an inferior contract?

Feels to me like this is the opportunity of his career to date with all the pieces falling into place due to our needs and the fact the RW is still up for grabs in one capacity (starter) or another (understudy). Whilst it's only he, Elanga and Antony plus others playing out of position, he's got the best chance he'll get to make his mark. Sancho and Greenwood not being here plus no Amad is the cherry on top as far as Pellistri should be concerned, for the remainder of this season at least. We've more pressing needs, so we're most likely not buying a RW, either.

This is the one time where the past being the past should be bygones as the future has potential to be very bright indeed, no?

 

[SAFMUTD]

I trust ten Hag all the way. There must be some reason why Elanga gets way more game time than Pellistri, just because I can't think of anything doesnt mean it doesnt exist...right?!

 

[Adnan]

The issue both Amad and Pellistri had was that they were signed on the say so of the club scouts (Bout &Lawlor) at first team level. Whilst Solskjaer, Phelan and their personal scout were on a different wavelength when it came to recruitment. And the problem lay with Woodward, who allowed a disconnect to develop between the club scouts and the first team coaching staff, who were operating independently from the club's recruitment team. And in that scenario, the younger players signed under the club scouts were going to suffer if the first team coaching staff had no intention to develop the players in question. This doesn't happen if the first team coaching staff is insync with the club's recruitment team.

Liverpool did the same thing with Brendan Rodgers and their recruitment staff. And both parties were allowed to sign their chosen players. Rodgers got his wish to sign Bentenke and the recruitment team got their wish to sign Firminho. Rodgers proceeded to use Firminho as a bit part player until he was sacked and replaced by Klopp who made much better use of Firminho. Klopp not only made better use of what was already at his disposal, but he also revived the careers of the Liverpool recruitment team who were much ridiculed before his arrival. And his arrival connected the club's recruitment team with himself. And that's something Rodgers, Mourinho and Solskjaer didn't do.

As far as Pellistri is concerned, I'd loan him to a team who looks to dominate the ball if possible. And he doesn't necessarily have to stay in England, but imo a loan to a team like Feyenoord would potentially be very good.

Because not only do they (Feyenoord) have a very good coach in Arne Slot who aims to dominate all phases of play, they also play in European competition. And Slot's playing principles are very similar to Erik ten Hag in a lot of ways, which would potentially help Pellistri develop a better tactical understanding of the positional play requirements which are important for a player playing under ten Hag.

 

[Fabio Rochemback]

When Elanga was going great guns in the youth team and then broke into 1st team squad many were saying what a talent he is and demanding he be played… now he is derided as shit.
This kid looks more gifted.

Always the case, man. Elanga was better than Rashford, Tengi was better than Lindelof etc

 

[Desert Eagle]

The issue both Amad and Pellistri had was that they were signed on the say so of the club scouts (Bout &Lawlor) at first team level. Whilst Solskjaer, Phelan and their personal scout were on a different wavelength when it came to recruitment. And the problem lay with Woodward, who allowed a disconnect to develop between the club scouts and the first team coaching staff, who were operating independently from the club's recruitment team. And in that scenario, the younger players signed under the club scouts were going to suffer if the first team coaching staff had no intention to develop the players in question. This doesn't happen if the first team coaching staff is insync with the club's recruitment team.

Liverpool did the same thing with Brendan Rodgers and their recruitment staff. And both parties were allowed to sign their chosen players. Rodgers got his wish to sign Bentenke and the recruitment team got their wish to sign Firminho. Rodgers proceeded to use Firminho as a bit part player until he was sacked and replaced by Klopp who made much better use of Firminho. Klopp not only made better use of what was already at his disposal, but he also revived the careers of the Liverpool recruitment team who were much ridiculed before his arrival. And his arrival connected the club's recruitment team with himself. And that's something Rodgers, Mourinho and Solskjaer didn't do.

As far as Pellistri is concerned, I'd loan him to a team who look to dominate the ball if possible. And he doesn't necessarily have to stay in England, but imo a loan to a team like Feyenoord would potentially be very good.

Because not only do they (Feyenoord) have a very good coach in Arne Slot who aims to dominate all phases of play, they also play in European competition. And Slot's playing principles are very similar to Erik ten Hag in a lot of ways, which would potentially help Pellistri develop a better tactical understanding of the positional play requirements which are important for a player playing under ten Hag.

Good post as usual Adnan. I would wait and see what the situation is with Sancho before sending Pellestri out on loan. Worst case scenario if Jadon is unavailable for the next month or so , we will need the cover.

 

[RedCurry]

Reminds me of David Silva.

Same. Or a young Mata.

 

[antohan]

Surprised you would say that. Surely the more prudent option is exhaust your time at a giant and if that doesn't work out, then go elsewhere? Things change rapidly in football and from this juncture, that could be the case for Pellistri; we're known for excitedly handing out really big contracts, the likes of which, youngsters don't receive so handily elsewhere, so the financial incentives are right there for him, and I'm sure he and his agent know this. At least in terms of incentivisation, it makes more sense to stick around that bit longer than not.

I'd say the same for playing time, too. From making an impression and earning praise to then getting more playing time off the back of that is a pretty steep and rapid curve here. Sure enough, things haven't gone as they should thus far, but now is the time where that could be turned on its head, especially so with the form and competition at RW not being great. Even in rotation with Antony, there's potential to tally a lot of minutes whilst also leaving a stronger imprint of the player he is not for us, but potential suitors that could see him circumvent a lot of the snakes and ladders of going back and forth at smaller clubs that may otherwise be on the cards.

When you say there's lots of money in Brazilian football currently, how does that scale with what's potentially on offer here and in Europe in general? Bearing in mind he wouldn't be going there under the best of circumstances - to be a rock star, he'd have to earn that status, which surely wouldn't come about without some additional grind after getting there on an inferior contract?

Feels to me like this is the opportunity of his career to date with all the pieces falling into place due to our needs and the fact the RW is still up for grabs in one capacity (starter) or another (understudy). Whilst it's only he, Elanga and Antony plus others playing out of position, he's got the best chance he'll get to make his mark. Sancho and Greenwood not being here plus no Amad is the cherry on top as far as Pellistri should be concerned, for the remainder of this season at least. We've more pressing needs, so we're most likely not buying a RW, either.

This is the one time where the past being the past should be bygones as the future has potential to be very bright indeed, no?

I agree he should have plenty of opportunities to play in the second half of the season. I'm just not optimistic about him actually getting them.

@NoPace does raise a valid point that he may be a misfit for Ten Hag's preferred system. The only explanation I can find for his lack of games is that ETH simply doesn't want to invest the minutes on someone he doesn't see as a first team player long term.

Re Brazil. It's not the PL wage-wise but it's a massive market so sponsor income can be quite significant. Everyone is football mad but all they care about is Brazilian football. This is the country where the main TV channel's top commentator kept saying Beckman during the quarters in 2002.

If I were him, yeah, I'd definitely see that as a much more tangible path to riches while enjoying what I do, than sitting at OT watching Elanga play ahead of me for the last few months.

 

[elmo]

Wait that was his debut? I thought he's played for us quite a few times before??

I think that’s only the reserves or under 21s

 

[NoPace]

If I were him, yeah, I'd definitely see that as a much more tangible path to riches while enjoying what I do, than sitting at OT watching Elanga play ahead of me for the last few months.

My guess is he'll ask to go to a decent side in La Liga or England that taps him up for a loan, and we'll acquiesce and loan him for 6 months, since he still has 2 years left this summer so no real loss of market value.

If I was his advisor, I'd say if Elanga doesn't get a loan, then best to go out. He needs to be getting all those minutes, and it's still a pretty big risk with Weghorst and Sancho adding to attacking options. He didn't come here thinking he wouldn't have a fight on his hand for minutes, but the 7 starts and 600 or so minutes Elanga has gotten is really the bare minimum for a decent young prospect. That would project to at say 1300 minutes and 13 starts, any less than that feels like a bit player, really.

 

[Cassidy]

Keep and play him. Loan Elanga

 

[Unam333]

I would move him up the pecking order. He looks ready and as a Man Utd fan I would be disappointed if he goes out on loan again.

 

[Jeffthered]

The issue both Amad and Pellistri had was that they were signed on the say so of the club scouts (Bout &Lawlor) at first team level. Whilst Solskjaer, Phelan and their personal scout were on a different wavelength when it came to recruitment. And the problem lay with Woodward, who allowed a disconnect to develop between the club scouts and the first team coaching staff, who were operating independently from the club's recruitment team. And in that scenario, the younger players signed under the club scouts were going to suffer if the first team coaching staff had no intention to develop the players in question. This doesn't happen if the first team coaching staff is insync with the club's recruitment team.

Liverpool did the same thing with Brendan Rodgers and their recruitment staff. And both parties were allowed to sign their chosen players. Rodgers got his wish to sign Bentenke and the recruitment team got their wish to sign Firminho. Rodgers proceeded to use Firminho as a bit part player until he was sacked and replaced by Klopp who made much better use of Firminho. Klopp not only made better use of what was already at his disposal, but he also revived the careers of the Liverpool recruitment team who were much ridiculed before his arrival. And his arrival connected the club's recruitment team with himself. And that's something Rodgers, Mourinho and Solskjaer didn't do.

As far as Pellistri is concerned, I'd loan him to a team who looks to dominate the ball if possible. And he doesn't necessarily have to stay in England, but imo a loan to a team like Feyenoord would potentially be very good.

Because not only do they (Feyenoord) have a very good coach in Arne Slot who aims to dominate all phases of play, they also play in European competition. And Slot's playing principles are very similar to Erik ten Hag in a lot of ways, which would potentially help Pellistri develop a better tactical understanding of the positional play requirements which are important for a player playing under ten Hag.

What an excellent post.

 

[georgipep]

The issue both Amad and Pellistri had was that they were signed on the say so of the club scouts (Bout &Lawlor) at first team level. Whilst Solskjaer, Phelan and their personal scout were on a different wavelength when it came to recruitment. And the problem lay with Woodward, who allowed a disconnect to develop between the club scouts and the first team coaching staff, who were operating independently from the club's recruitment team. And in that scenario, the younger players signed under the club scouts were going to suffer if the first team coaching staff had no intention to develop the players in question. This doesn't happen if the first team coaching staff is insync with the club's recruitment team.

Liverpool did the same thing with Brendan Rodgers and their recruitment staff. And both parties were allowed to sign their chosen players. Rodgers got his wish to sign Bentenke and the recruitment team got their wish to sign Firminho. Rodgers proceeded to use Firminho as a bit part player until he was sacked and replaced by Klopp who made much better use of Firminho. Klopp not only made better use of what was already at his disposal, but he also revived the careers of the Liverpool recruitment team who were much ridiculed before his arrival. And his arrival connected the club's recruitment team with himself. And that's something Rodgers, Mourinho and Solskjaer didn't do.

As far as Pellistri is concerned, I'd loan him to a team who looks to dominate the ball if possible. And he doesn't necessarily have to stay in England, but imo a loan to a team like Feyenoord would potentially be very good.

Because not only do they (Feyenoord) have a very good coach in Arne Slot who aims to dominate all phases of play, they also play in European competition. And Slot's playing principles are very similar to Erik ten Hag in a lot of ways, which would potentially help Pellistri develop a better tactical understanding of the positional play requirements which are important for a player playing under ten Hag.

Can you please clarify what you mean by "the first team coaching staff had no intention to develop the players in question"? Amad was involved in first team almost from the start, and played games in his first season. He was training with the first squad and was definitely getting the attention from the coaching staff.

For Pellistri, you may be onto something, although I think he needed a lot of time to adjust to the standards of top level European football. His good debut on Tuesday came after spending the first 5 months of this season not playing any football. You can argue that he was being "developed" in the background. But you can argue the same for his first season here. Since he came to United after player competitive football in Uruguay, the coaching staff made a decision that he needs to continue getting regular time. In many, many cases that is indeed the right call. And that decision was lauded as the correct one at the time. Whether Alaves was the right choice, I might disagree, but that's not the point.

I just feel that you are rewriting history here and doing so without any proof.

 

[Fortitude]

I agree he should have plenty of opportunities to play in the second half of the season. I'm just not optimistic about him actually getting them.

@NoPace does raise a valid point that he may be a misfit for Ten Hag's preferred system. The only explanation I can find for his lack of games is that ETH simply doesn't want to invest the minutes on someone he doesn't see as a first team player long term.

Re Brazil. It's not the PL wage-wise but it's a massive market so sponsor income can be quite significant. Everyone is football mad but all they care about is Brazilian football. This is the country where the main TV channel's top commentator kept saying Beckman during the quarters in 2002.

If I were him, yeah, I'd definitely see that as a much more tangible path to riches while enjoying what I do, than sitting at OT watching Elanga play ahead of me for the last few months.

The manager's actions have matched his words throughout his tenure thus far? As far as I'm aware this is the first time he's actually spoken about Pellistri and given his thoughts about him during the season proper, please correct me if I'm wrong there.

I'm obviously not going to be as invested in Pellistri as you would be due to NT and very probably tracking his career in Uruguay. I'm sure the situation is concerning to Uruguayans as he's one of your potential stars who has thus far been buffeted from one shite loan to another. At the same time, pulling him just as he's making an impression and getting both fans and management talking about him seems like the very worst time to do so. Things change rapidly and I would be surprised if hasn't just leapfrogged Elanga.

Surely you'd want to see how that situation resolves itself before making a decision - Elanga not being loaned out may even be the straw that breaks the camel's back in forcing a reaction from Pellistri and his advisors.

It just looks like the opportunity of his time here to date to me - so few rivals for PT and even the starter in the position currently spluttering and not seeing out full games. There's a lot of minutes to be had and as few reasons for him to get them as he's likely to have whilst here. No Sancho, in particular, is huge.

 

[antohan]

The manager's actions have matched his words throughout his tenure thus far? As far as I'm aware this is the first time he's actually spoken about Pellistri and given his thoughts about him during the season proper, please correct me if I'm wrong there.

It is, yeah. I'm not accusing ETH of being fake or anything. He is an asset so for that reason alone you should acknowledge good performance/progress.

You can say everything he said and still not have him as part of your future plans. If he doesn't, well, tough shit. All I'm saying is what I would strongly consider if I were the player, not what I want to happen.

Just putting it out there because I see lots of people making pecking order lists of players as disposable items, then lists of dumps to eventually dispose them in, and they don't for one minute consider we may be the dump as far as they are concerned.

@Adnan just described the dump he has been in for the last couple of years actually.

 

[Fortitude]

It is, yeah. I'm not accusing ETH of being fake or anything. He is an asset so for that reason alone you should acknowledge good performance/progress.

You can say everything he said and still not have him as part of your future plans. If he doesn't, well, tough shit. All I'm saying is what I would strongly consider if I were the player, not what I want to happen.

Just putting it out there because I see lots of people making pecking order lists of players as disposable items, then lists of dumps to eventually dispose them in, and they don't for one minute consider we may be the dump as far as they are concerned.

@Adnan just described the dump he has been in for the last couple of years actually.

Yeah, I get that. I think it'll resolve itself one way or another with the player/agent taking action if they see that they're still being overlooked, but the reasons to be optimistic outweigh things because for the first time since he got here he's garnering recognition and acknowledgement in the season proper. I also think this is the first time questions would be asked of why not Pellistri over why did we even buy this guy as he and Amad were considered duds for not immediately setting the place alight.

 

[Pronewbie]

Was Pellestri the one who played pretty poorly in our Bangkok Cup win? I recall him and Amad disappointing during pre-season. He looked a very different player in his cameo against Charlton. Making the right decisions and carrying the ball with pace.

 

[antohan]

Was Pellestri the one who played pretty poorly in our Bangkok Cup win? I recall him and Amad disappointing during pre-season. He looked a very different player in his cameo against Charlton. Making the right decisions and carrying the ball with pace.

He looked good, scored, then got injured. Long and short of it.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Can you please clarify what you mean by "the first team coaching staff had no intention to develop the players in question"? Amad was involved in first team almost from the start, and played games in his first season. He was training with the first squad and was definitely getting the attention from the coaching staff.

For Pellistri, you may be onto something, although I think he needed a lot of time to adjust to the standards of top level European football. His good debut on Tuesday came after spending the first 5 months of this season not playing any football. You can argue that he was being "developed" in the background. But you can argue the same for his first season here. Since he came to United after player competitive football in Uruguay, the coaching staff made a decision that he needs to continue getting regular time. In many, many cases that is indeed the right call. And that decision was lauded as the correct one at the time. Whether Alaves was the right choice, I might disagree, but that's not the point.

I just feel that you are rewriting history here and doing so without any proof.

Pretty sure Pellestri was recommended to him by Diego Forlan anyways, similar to James. And for whatever reason he was sent out on loan, he clearly benefitted from it, especially considering how most of our domestic loans don't work out. It is definitely unusual that he was passed up by ETH despite an impressive preseason, the situation was quite simlar to Dalot actually, but lets see what happens now, whether he has forced himself into the manager's plans.

 

[georgipep]

Pretty sure Pellestri was recommended to him by Diego Forlan anyways, similar to James. And for whatever reason he was sent out on loan, he clearly benefitted from it, especially considering how most of our domestic loans don't work out. It is definitely unusual that he was passed up by ETH despite an impressive preseason, the situation was quite simlar to Dalot actually, but lets see what happens now, whether he has forced himself into the manager's plans.

Yeah, at least I haven't seen any proof which signing was done by scouts recommendations and which was purely driven by the manager and the coaching staff.

People make assumptions to trash one group or the other and I really struggle to understand why. Unless it's driven by a malicious agenda against that group.

 

[Nickelodeon]

Pretty sure Pellestri was recommended to him by Diego Forlan anyways, similar to James. And for whatever reason he was sent out on loan, he clearly benefitted from it, especially considering how most of our domestic loans don't work out. It is definitely unusual that he was passed up by ETH despite an impressive preseason, the situation was quite simlar to Dalot actually, but lets see what happens now, whether he has forced himself into the manager's plans.

Forlan: "Look a talented player from my country"

United: "Shut up and take my money"

 

[Adnan]

Can you please clarify what you mean by "the first team coaching staff had no intention to develop the players in question"? Amad was involved in first team almost from the start, and played games in his first season. He was training with the first squad and was definitely getting the attention from the coaching staff.

For Pellistri, you may be onto something, although I think he needed a lot of time to adjust to the standards of top level European football. His good debut on Tuesday came after spending the first 5 months of this season not playing any football. You can argue that he was being "developed" in the background. But you can argue the same for his first season here. Since he came to United after player competitive football in Uruguay, the coaching staff made a decision that he needs to continue getting regular time. In many, many cases that is indeed the right call. And that decision was lauded as the correct one at the time. Whether Alaves was the right choice, I might disagree, but that's not the point.

I just feel that you are rewriting history here and doing so without any proof.

When I'm talking about the first team coaching staff, I'm specifically speaking about Ole the manager and Phelan, who was reported to be Solskjaer's advisor on the football side of the club.

You don't develop a player who is coming straight from Atalanta's first team by allowing him to train with the United first team. You have to actually give the player consistent minutes for him to develop by actually playing him in games. And the games Amad did play under Ole, he did very well and actually made a impact but was not rewarded for his displays because Solskjaer it seemed was hell bent on signing Jadon Sancho for the RW. And when he eventually got Sancho he played him on the left and when asked in a press conference why Sancho was playing on the left, he responded by saying because Sancho prefers the left. And that was something that myself and a few others had mentioned before we even signed Sancho, that he was best utilised on the left.

You don't spend €20m upfront on a young project to then send him on loan. You spend that sort of money on a young player who you expect your first team coaching staff to develop for the first team by actually giving the player minutes. Amad was on his way to Parma in a loan move before he was signed by United. And unfortunately Solskjaer put all his eggs into the Sancho basket for the RW role and it turned out that Sancho preferred playing on the left wing. And right now we're in a situation where the hope is that Erik ten Hag could salvage Sancho's career at United and right some of the wrongs of Solskjaer when it came to recruitment. Which follows on from other mistakes like signing Maguire when it was reported that the recruitment heads at first team level had told Woodward a year earlier that Maguire wasn't any better than the CBs that were already at the club. But Solskjaer and Maguire's former manager at Hull City, Mike Phelan, were allowed to sign him for a world record sum. And that was reported by Daniel Taylor who now works for The Athletic.

What you should be looking for is evidence, because proof emanates from evidence. And what developed during Solskjaer's tenure as manager of Manchester United is for all to see. In his time at the club he spoke about wanting to implement a high pressing game style which he never came close to implementing and instead fell back on a transition based game which saw us develop a reactive approach to good effect for periods in his tenure but that was never going to trouble the benchmark which was in full swing at City and Liverpool who were playing a attacking brand of football that Solskjaer didn't come close to replicating in his time as manager of United. Klopp and Guardiola are coaches who coach the technical aspects on the training ground and Solskjaer himself has admitted that wasn't his strong point and was described by The Athletic as being a motivator rather than someone who understands the technical aspects of coaching, which he left to Kieran Mckenna and Carrick.

So I wouldn't call it rewriting history but rather history repeating itself from Mourinho's tenure due to both Mourinho and Solskjaer not connecting the dots when it came to the football structure at the club which was evolving and needed the first team manager to give them direction. But as has been reported, both Mourinho and Solskjaer were afforded the luxury of having their personal scouts. You don't succeed at big clubs in the present day by shunning the club structure and both Klopp and Guardiola are two examples of head coaches who understood that concept and hence have been successful due to working with the existing structure and then aiding in its evolution.

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

Reminds me of David Silva.

Been saying exactly this for the last year!

 

[Adnan]

Diego Forlan gave a character reference on Pellistri which is normal when a potential is deal on the cards. Solskjaer also contacted Cristiano Ronaldo directly according to tier 1 reports to get a reference on Bruno Fernandes.

 

[Scottynaldinho]

Closest thing to Messi since Bojan.

 

[georgipep]

When I'm talking about the first team coaching staff, I'm specifically speaking about Ole the manager and Phelan, who was reported to be Solskjaer's advisor on the football side of the club.

You don't develop a player who is coming straight from Atalanta's first team by allowing him to train with the United first team. You have to actually give the player consistent minutes for him to develop by actually playing him in games. And the games Amad did play under Ole, he did very well and actually made a impact but was not rewarded for his displays because Solskjaer it seemed was hell bent on signing Jadon Sancho for the RW. And when he eventually got Sancho he played him on the left and when asked in a press conference why Sancho was playing on the left, he responded by saying because Sancho prefers the left. And that was something that myself and a few others had mentioned before we even signed Sancho, that he was best utilised on the left.

You don't spend €20m upfront on a young project to then send him on loan. You spend that sort of money on a young player who you expect your first team coaching staff to develop for the first team by actually giving the player minutes. Amad was on his way to Parma in a loan move before he was signed by United. And unfortunately Solskjaer put all his eggs into the Sancho basket for the RW role and it turned out that Sancho preferred playing on the left wing. And right now we're in a situation where the hope is that Erik ten Hag could salvage Sancho's career at United and right some of the wrongs of Solskjaer when it came to recruitment. Which follows on from other mistakes like signing Maguire when it was reported that the recruitment heads at first team level had told Woodward a year earlier that Maguire wasn't any better than the CBs that were already at the club. But Solskjaer and Maguire's former manager at Hull City, Mike Phelan, were allowed to sign him for a world record sum. And that was reported by Daniel Taylor who now works for The Athletic.

What you should be looking for is evidence, because proof emanates from evidence. And what developed during Solskjaer's tenure as manager of Manchester United is for all to see. In his time at the club he spoke about wanting to implement a high pressing game style which he never came close to implementing and instead fell back on a transition based game which saw us develop a reactive approach to good effect for periods in his tenure but that was never going to trouble the benchmark which was in full swing at City and Liverpool who were playing a attacking brand of football that Solskjaer didn't come close to replicating in his time as manager of United. Klopp and Guardiola are coaches who coach the technical aspects on the training ground and Solskjaer himself has admitted that wasn't his strong point and was described by The Athletic as being a motivator rather than someone who understands the technical aspects of coaching, which he left to Kieran Mckenna and Carrick.

So I wouldn't call it rewriting history but rather history repeating itself from Mourinho's tenure due to both Mourinho and Solskjaer not connecting the dots when it came to the football structure at the club which was evolving and needed the first team manager to give them direction. But as has been reported, both Mourinho and Solskjaer were afforded the luxury of having their personal scouts. You don't succeed at big clubs in the present day by shunning the club structure and both Klopp and Guardiola are two examples of head coaches who understood that concept and hence have been successful due to working with the existing structure and then aiding in its evolution.

You continue with assumptions and insinuations. Even half of your evidence is contradictory. So, you're saying that Ole deliberately hurt his own success by not playing Amad more?
And that because of Sancho, who, as you say, he played as LW? An year later.

This is ridiculous. I get it, you don't like Ole. But this is plain fiction now.

 

[georgipep]

Diego Forlan gave a character reference on Pellistri which is normal when a potential is deal on the cards. Solskjaer also contacted Cristiano Ronaldo directly according to tier 1 reports to get a reference on Bruno Fernandes.

Which should be sufficient evidence that Pellistri was very much an Ole-approved if not Ole-initiated transfer.

 

[Roboc7]

Can you please clarify what you mean by "the first team coaching staff had no intention to develop the players in question"? Amad was involved in first team almost from the start, and played games in his first season. He was training with the first squad and was definitely getting the attention from the coaching staff.

For Pellistri, you may be onto something, although I think he needed a lot of time to adjust to the standards of top level European football. His good debut on Tuesday came after spending the first 5 months of this season not playing any football. You can argue that he was being "developed" in the background. But you can argue the same for his first season here. Since he came to United after player competitive football in Uruguay, the coaching staff made a decision that he needs to continue getting regular time. In many, many cases that is indeed the right call. And that decision was lauded as the correct one at the time. Whether Alaves was the right choice, I might disagree, but that's not the point.

I just feel that you are rewriting history here and doing so without any proof.

It is just speculating and rewriting history, Amad had played 4 times for Atalanta, Pellistri had one season at Penarol. Neither were likely to come to Utd and get significant game time, both were bought for their potential.

Assessing them once they’ve joined then loaning them out for development is fairly standard, Arsenal did with Saliba, Spurs with Sessegnon. Pellistri’s biggest problem was he had a really poor loan last season, and that’s what happens with lots of these loan spells.

SAF bought Nick Powell and then didn’t play him, it’s just difficult finding best way to develop players that aren’t quite ready.

 

[Bastian]

You continue with assumptions and insinuations. Even half of your evidence is contradictory. So, you're saying that Ole deliberately hurt his own success by not playing Amad more?
And that because of Sancho, who, as you say, he played as LW? An year later.

This is ridiculous. I get it, you don't like Ole. But this is plain fiction now.

What's strange about his post? He signed two young right wingers while still chasing Sancho a year later to play on the right wing (he also bought a right back at Dalot's age, which was also strange in terms of development, unless he'd have sold Dalot). There were reports nearing the end of Ole's tenure that they were thinking of Sancho as a right wing back. There was nothing to suggest on the pitch that he knew what he was doing.

 

[georgipep]

What's strange about his post? He signed two young right wingers while still chasing Sancho a year later to play on the right wing (he also bought a right back at Dalot's age, which was also strange in terms of development, unless he'd have sold Dalot). There were reports nearing the end of Ole's tenure that they were thinking of Sancho as a right wing back. There was nothing to suggest on the pitch that he knew what he was doing.

So, you think we should have had only one right back, Dalot, who at the time was nowhere near ready for a regular starting position.

Let's not forget that Dalot was very hit/miss before the Milan loan.

 

[Bastian]

So, you think we should have had only one right back, Dalot, who at the time was nowhere near ready for a regular starting position.

Let's not forget that Dalot was very hit/miss before the Milan loan.

No, and at that time I had no belief in Dalot whatsoever. Thankfully he's upped his game considerably. I think if you have faith in a young player you do not buy a player of the same age in the same position. For example, I didn't want Gakpo as I think it would have hindered Garnacho, though the age difference there is a bit more. But had Ole sold Dalot it would have made more sense, at the time. I also think it was a bit strange to buy both Pellistri and Amad - both requiring match time to develop. And then to buy Sancho for the right wing, having splashed out 30-40m on the other two shows what Adnan's saying to be true, the logistics in recruitment were nonexistent.

 

[Guapa]

Gotta keep this kid around the first team and see what he can do,no more loans in the sun.

 

[Adnan]

You continue with assumptions and insinuations. Even half of your evidence is contradictory. So, you're saying that Ole deliberately hurt his own success by not playing Amad more?
And that because of Sancho, who, as you say, he played as LW? An year later.

This is ridiculous. I get it, you don't like Ole. But this is plain fiction now.

Ole didn't deliberately do anything to hurt himself but his decisions hurt the club.

And it's not about playing Amad more, but rather about attempting to develop a young high potential player like Dortmund did with Sancho. But the difference was that Dortmund's head coach was Favre and he unlike Solskjaer, had a clear and defined way of implementing and coaching attacking football, which helps in developing what is seen on match days.

 

[Plant0x84]

Always the case, man. Elanga was better than Rashford, Tengi was better than Lindelof etc

I remember when the Caf hailed Brandon Williams as better than Luke Shaw. Some laughably bad takes on here most weeks!

 

[Adnan]

Which should be sufficient evidence that Pellistri was very much an Ole-approved if not Ole-initiated transfer.

Well yes, you would at the very least expect the manager of the football club to at the very least contact his former team mate Diego Forlan who managed the player in Uruguay and ask him for a reference on the player.

 

[georgipep]

No, and at that time I had no belief in Dalot whatsoever. Thankfully he's upped his game considerably. I think if you have faith in a young player you do not buy a player of the same age in the same position. For example, I didn't want Gakpo as I think it would have hindered Garnacho, though the age difference there is a bit more. But had Ole sold Dalot it would have made more sense, at the time. I also think it was a bit strange to buy both Pellistri and Amad - both requiring match time to develop. And then to buy Sancho for the right wing, having splashed out 30-40m on the other two shows what Adnan's saying to be true, the logistics in recruitment were nonexistent.

Why would Ole sell Dalot if he believed in him developing? Things don't happen overnight. We need a RB who can start. AWB was that player. He was young which meant bigger upside. I really don't get what do you want. Ole to have bought an older RB?

 

[georgipep]

Ole didn't deliberately do anything to hurt himself but his decisions hurt the club.

And it's not about playing Amad more, but rather about attempting to develop a young high potential player like Dortmund did with Sancho. But the difference was that Dortmund's head coach was Favre and he unlike Solskjaer, had a clear and defined way of implementing and coaching attacking football, which helps in developing what is seen on match days.

Also, Dortmund have 2nd place in the Bundesliga more or less on a plate and the pressure on their manager is peanuts compared to the Manchester United seat.

Ole couldn't play Pellistri or Amad from the start because neither were ready. That was obvious and expected.

 

[charlenefan]

What's strange about his post? He signed two young right wingers while still chasing Sancho a year later to play on the right wing (he also bought a right back at Dalot's age, which was also strange in terms of development, unless he'd have sold Dalot). There were reports nearing the end of Ole's tenure that they were thinking of Sancho as a right wing back. There was nothing to suggest on the pitch that he knew what he was doing.

I mean that was quite obviously rubbish

 

[georgipep]

Well yes, you would at the very least expect the manager of the football club to at the very least contact his former team mate Diego Forlan who managed the player in Uruguay and ask him for a reference on the player.

OK, please explain why you believe with such conviction that Pellistri and Amad were scout signings and not manager signings.