[Bastian]

Why would Ole sell Dalot if he believed in him developing? Things don't happen overnight. We need a RB who can start. AWB was that player. He was young which meant bigger upside. I really don't get what do you want. Ole to have bought an older RB?

Say Rashford is not part of the argument, and Garnacho is playing on the left wing. Which would you rather, a 20 year old left winger or a 29 year old left winger?

I mean that was quite obviously rubbish

Maybe so. There were a lot of strange decisions during that era though.

 

[Bojan Djordjic]

I think people underestimate the importance Ten Hag places on out of possession play. We're usually better as a team with Antony because he tracks back, is familiar with ETH's pressing needs and provides width and balance to the team. Elanga also works his socks off for the team. Pellistri looked extremely bright in his ten minute cameo and certainly did more to enliven the game than we've seen Elanga or Mata or Donny do off the bench in recent seasons but I'm not sure if it means that much to EtH if he isn't convinced that he can also provide the off the ball movement and defensive discipline that Anthony or Elanga provide.

 

[Glorio]

I think it's just Valverde being an elite athlete for his position and Pellistri is a tiny fella who doesn't score goals. Was always going to take longer to make his mark in Europe than Valverde. As you say, a maturity thing, just seemingly physical not mental, because everything we've read and seen of him suggests great character.

I really think Ten Hag has only not played him because he's convinced he's still far away from even scoring 1 in every 4 games, which seems like the bare minimum acceptable from a winger in his system where the 9 drops deep a lot and the wingers are in the half spaces looking to score a lot.

Found the net without an issue during pre-season though, our little pre-season Figo

 

[Adnan]

OK, please explain why you believe with such conviction that Pellistri and Amad were scout signings and not manager signings.

Because we actually have a team of scouts who scout regions around the world. And Pellistri was a first team player in South America which fell under the scouts in South America.

And the quote below is from Laurie Whitwell (The Athletic).

Laurie Whitwell: "Amad Diallo will go down as a Solskjaer signing but the truth is Solskjaer knew nothing about the player before he was signed"

https://theathletic.com/4071426/202...uence-and-a-grades?source=user-shared-article

 

[georgipep]

Say Rashford is not part of the argument, and Garnacho is playing on the left wing. Which would you rather, a 20 year old left winger or a 29 year old left winger?



Maybe so. There were a lot of strange decisions during that era though.

If there is the right 20 year old player identified, definitelythe one that gives us the bigger upside. At the time AWB played many times better than Dalot did.

 

[georgipep]

Because we actually have a team of scouts who scout regions around the world. And Pellistri was a first team player in South America which fell under the scouts in South America.

And the quote below is from Laurie Whitwell (The Athletic).

Laurie Whitwell: "Amad Diallo will go down as a Solskjaer signing but the truth is Solskjaer knew nothing about the player before he was signed"

https://theathletic.com/4071426/202...uence-and-a-grades?source=user-shared-article

We have scouts for every region. So Sancho, surely then, was a scout signing?

 

[Adnan]

We have scouts for every region. So Sancho, surely then, was a scout signing?

Solskjaer had his own personal scout covering Europe,in the form of Simon Wells. That's well documented by the way.

 

[NoPace]

Found the net without an issue during pre-season though, our little pre-season Figo

International career‡
Senior career*
Years	Team	Apps	(Gls)
2019–2020	Peñarol	30	(1)
2020–	Manchester United	0	(0)
2021	→ Alavés (loan)	12	(0)
2021–2022	→ Alavés (loan)	21	(0)
2017	Uruguay U16	2	(0)
2022–	Uruguay	10	(0)

I don't think we should project him as a serious goalscorer. The hope here would be the sort of winger who if he started 30 games would get 5-6 goals and 10-12 assists, like a mix between Jesus Navas and Bernardo Silva.

 

[georgipep]

Solskjaer had his own personal scout covering Europe,in the form of Simon Wells. That's well documented by the way.

Does that mean every European signing was a manager signing?

Do you realise what huge leaps in assumptions you are making with these statements?

 

[Berbaclass]

He must stay if Elanga is going to Everton

 

[croadyman]

He must stay if Elanga is going to Everton

My thoughts exactly

 

[Rolaholic]

 

[Still ill]

I very much hope that's true.

 

[izec]

The point is he needs minutes. I hope he gets game time. No point in keeping him on the bench for 10 minutes game time every half season.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

That short cameo against Charlton seems to have changed everything! Suddenly, they want Pellestri to stay and Elanga is off to Everton!

 

[RuudTom83]

EtH is the boss...I would listen to him if I was Pellistri!

Another loan in Spain or to any non-premier league club does nothing for his United career.

 

[mancsarered]

So much more promise than Elanga; hopefully their roles are swapped.

 

[Giggsy13]

Good. Elanga should be the one sent out on loan. He’s significantly regressed since last season and really needs minutes elsewhere. His first touch, finishing, everything absolutely shit at the moment especially when you compare him to someone younger in Garnacho. Keep Pellistri, I’m loving the South American influence in the squad.

 

[Giggsy13]

So much more promise than Elanga; hopefully their roles are swapped.

Everton apparently want Elanga. I’d say do it. Loan with an obligation or option to buy. I can see clubs like Leicester or Wolves also being interested.

 

[Adnan]

Does that mean every European signing was a manager signing?

Do you realise what huge leaps in assumptions you are making with these statements?

You're the one that resorted to deflecting and whataboutery. Your bone of contention with me was the signings of Pellistri and Amad, and you especially took issue with what I said regarding the poor development plan for Amad which I also blame Solskjaer for.. And after providing you with evidence that Amad wasn't a Solskjaer signing, you've then followed that up with unrelated questions to the player you were originally discussing with me.

Yes, Simon Wells was a personal scout of Solskjaer and Solskjaer was pictured with Phelan scouting players at various different grounds. No other top club allows their head coach/manager to have his personal scout or allows him to go around scouting players which Woodward allowed both Mourinho and Solskjaer to do. That defeats the whole purpose of building a scouting network.

The above is why the club's football structure didn't develop to the requisite level and why it's extremely damaging to give such control to a novice like Solskjaer who in his almost 3 years at the club couldn't implement more than the transition based game style which saw us develop a style which ultimately never came close to challenging for the league.

And contrary to your accusations, I don't dislike Solskjaer and even supported him for a while when he made the claim about wanting to create a high pressing team 'like Jurgen'. But the truth is that unlike Jurgen, Solskjær isn't in Klopp's league when it comes to implementing the technical aspects of coaching on the training ground which correlates to the modern day reality of implementing a progressive, highly intense, attacking brand of football.

Klopp also joined Liverpool and didn't ask for his own personal scout like Brendan Rodgers before him , but rather he joined them and went about restructuring the club's existing football structure which was widely ridiculed at the time.

 

[georgipep]

You're the one that resorted to deflecting and whataboutery. Your bone of contention with me was the signings of Pellistri and Amad, and you especially took issue with what I said regarding the poor development plan for Amad which I also blame Solskjaer for.. And after providing you with evidence that Amad wasn't a Solskjaer signing, you've then followed that up with unrelated questions to the player you were originally discussing with me.

Yes, Simon Wells was a personal scout of Solskjaer and Solskjaer was pictured with Phelan scouting players at various different grounds. No other top club allows their head coach/manager to have his personal scout or allows him to go around scouting players which Woodward allowed both Mourinho and Solskjaer to do. That defeats the whole purpose of building a scouting network.

The above is why the club's football structure didn't develop to the requisite level and why it's extremely damaging to give such control to a novice like Solskjaer who in his almost 3 years at the club couldn't implement more than the transition based game style which saw us develop a style which ultimately never came close to challenging for the league.

And contrary to your accusations, I don't dislike Solskjaer and even supported him for a while when he made the claim about wanting to create a high pressing team 'like Jurgen'. But the truth is that unlike Jurgen, Solskjær isn't in Klopp's league when it comes to implementing the technical aspects of coaching on the training ground which correlates to the modern day reality of implementing a progressive, highly intense, attacking brand of football.

Klopp also joined Liverpool and didn't ask for his own personal scout like Brendan Rodgers before him , but rather he joined them and went about restructuring the club's existing football structure which was widely ridiculed at the time.

My bone of contention is your assumptions that Amad and Pellistri were scout signings, insinuating that Ole didn't want them, and Ole wasted their early Manchester United careers when you have zero evidence for either of those statements.

Most clubs buy young players who then have a mixed development path including time with the youth teams, the first team and on loan, before they are given a prolonged (and deserved) chance to breakthrough in the first team.

Plenty of examples of the same even in this thread, as responses to your and my messages.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Boring!

 

[Adnan]

My bone of contention is your assumptions that Amad and Pellistri were scout signings, insinuating that Ole didn't want them, and Ole wasted their early Manchester United careers when you have zero evidence for either of those statements.

Most clubs buy young players who then have a mixed development path including time with the youth teams, the first team and on loan, before they are given a prolonged (and deserved) chance to breakthrough in the first team.

Plenty of examples of the same even in this thread, as responses to your and my messages.

If Ole wanted them, why didn't he attempt to develop them by actually giving them meaningful minutes. He didn't do that and his tenure at the club is one where he constantly played full strength teams, even in the league cup and ended up winning zilch.

Erik ten Hag in his first season has not only brought through Garnacho but has also given a full fist team debut to 17 year old Kobbie Mainoo. That's what I call attempting to develop the talent at your disposal.

 

[Shimo]

That short cameo against Charlton seems to have changed everything! Suddenly, they want Pellestri to stay and Elanga is off to Everton!

Probably his performances for Uruguay. ETH highlighted that in his post match.

Regards to Elanga, he definitely has stalled or even regressed. A loan for him would be good too but, I think Pellestri also needs to go on loan unless he gets a decent amount of minutes which I think will be very limited. With Weghorst coming in and possibly Sancho coming back, Bruno often being pushed out to the right just not sure he will see a lot of minutes for him to continue to develop.

 

[Smores]

My bone of contention is your assumptions that Amad and Pellistri were scout signings, insinuating that Ole didn't want them, and Ole wasted their early Manchester United careers when you have zero evidence for either of those statements.

Most clubs buy young players who then have a mixed development path including time with the youth teams, the first team and on loan, before they are given a prolonged (and deserved) chance to breakthrough in the first team.

Plenty of examples of the same even in this thread, as responses to your and my messages.

So you think whilst busy managing the club Ole had time to personality scout two completely unknown players to the sufficient standard to warrant the outlay? Of course they were scout signings ffs.

 

[Bojan Djordjic]

I thought he was great but it would make you wonder about coaches when ten minutes against Charlton makes you rethink your entire opinion on a player you're seeing every day in training. See it happening all the time including with Diogo Dalot and Pellistri. Are these guys brutal in training or what?

 

[georgipep]

If Ole wanted them, why didn't he attempt to develop them by actually giving them meaningful minutes. He didn't do that and his tenure at the club is one where he constantly played full strength teams, even in the league cup and ended up winning zilch.

Erik ten Hag in his first season has not only brought through Garnacho but has also given a full fist team debut to 17 year old Kobbie Mainoo. That's what I call attempting to develop the talent at your disposal.

Are you serious? Not every young player is ready for senior games in the PL at 18. They take time to develop and some of that development takes place in youth teams, some on loan.

You can argue that their developmentwas handled well exactly because now they seem closer to the first team.

 

[georgipep]

So you think whilst busy managing the club Ole had time to personality scout two completely unknown players to the sufficient standard to warrant the outlay? Of course they were scout signings ffs.

But somehow Sancho and the others were his signings then? How do you draw the line?

 

[Adnan]

Are you serious? Not every young player is ready for senior games in the PL at 18. They take time to develop and some of that development takes place in youth teams, some on loan.

You can argue that their developmentwas handled well exactly because now they seem closer to the first team.

I agree, not every young player is ready for EPL football at 18.. But also not every manager is cut out to develop young players for EPL football.

 

[UnitedSofa]

But somehow Sancho and the others were his signings then? How do you draw the line?

Sancho was well known, that’s the difference.

Ole would have been well aware of Sancho, he could have asked the scouts to look at him, come back with a report and then ask the club to sign him. Hence the tag “Ole signing” - no need to be Facetious to @Adnan when they have clearly explained their reasonings and has given evidence for their claims.

 

[georgipep]

Sancho was well known, that’s the difference.

Ole would have been well aware of Sancho, he could have asked the scouts to look at him, come back with a report and then ask the club to sign him. Hence the tag “Ole signing” - no need to be Facetious to @Adnan when they have clearly explained their reasonings and has given evidence for their claims.

His reasonings are not based on any facts but assumptions and insinuations. And that's what I have a problem with. Especially claiming that Ole somehow is at fault for their development.

 

[UnitedSofa]

His reasonings are not based on any facts but assumptions and insinuations. And that's what I have a problem with. Especially claiming that Ole somehow is at fault for their development.

Well who else if not the manager at the time? Christ.

 

[Who's Kissing Cameras?]

I’m left scratching my head in amazement at some of the posts questioning EtH over this.

He’s well known at developing young players, has spoken about Pellistri previously and is meticulous in his methods.

I trust him far more than the baffled morons on the Caf!

Only of the only (and small) criticisms some Ajax fans had about ETH was his slight reluctance to use youth.

 

[TheReligion]

Only of the only (and small) criticisms some Ajax fans had about ETH was his slight reluctance to use youth.

I thought it was more about him not rotating? He’s developed many youth players hasn’t he?

Anyway from how he’s integrated Garnacho I have every faith. Even giving a debut to Mainoo this week.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Well who else if not the manager at the time? Christ.

He sent him out on loan, where he broke into the national team and made the World Cup.

 

[Adnan]

It's unbelievable that people can't seem to grasp that the first team football manager is responsible for the development of young players who have been signed from other first team playing squads.

Pellistri apparently who Solskjaer wanted, only made his first team debut two years later under Erik ten Hag. Amad Diallo from memory was given a start in a dead rubber EPL game away to Wolves, and imo he was the best player on the pitch. I then remember Solskjaer throwing Amad on in a game against AC Milan in the Europa League and he made a instant impact by scoring the opening goal in a game that was on a knife edge. Amad's reward for that performance was to go back to being a bit part player before eventually being loaned.

I very much doubt either Garnacho or Mainoo would've made their senior debuts under Solskjaer at this stage. But ten Hag has not only integrated Garnacho into the first team squad he's also given a full start to a 17 year old midfielder in a league Cup quarter final.

And that's the difference between ten Hag who has developed players who have performed at the highest level like the Champions League and Solskjaer who never did.

 

[mu4c_20le]

The only thing amusing is how the narrative is suddenly changing now that Pellestri is staring to look good. Before it was another failed Ole signing.

 

[Who's Kissing Cameras?]

I thought it was more about him not rotating? He’s developed many youth players hasn’t he?

Anyway from how he’s integrated Garnacho I have every faith. Even giving a debut to Mainoo this week.

He has, I think i remember reading the youth criticism somewhere on here! Might be wrong.

Agreed, he’s handled Garnacho incredibly well.

 

[TheReligion]

He has, I think i remember reading the youth criticism somewhere on here! Might be wrong.

Agreed, he’s handled Garnacho incredibly well.

I think with him if you’re good enough then age doesn’t matter.

 

[georgipep]

Well who else if not the manager at the time? Christ.

It's pointless to repeatthe same thing again and again...