Fans behaviour

[SirtheIcarium]

Why no problems with the Madrid fans, then?

Or are they not downtrodden, working class enough to be attacked by the police?

Liverpool fans doing what they do best, yet again.

That's the issue for Liverpool fans trying to blame other people. If it was UEFA's fault, there should have been issues with the Real support too.

If its the French Police, then how come they were able to police a major European final a few hours before (Leinster v La Rochelle) without incident.

I have no doubt some blameless fans were caught up in it. I have no doubt, given English fans reputation and the issues at the finals of the Euro's, the police were on edge and ready to rumble at the first sign of trouble. But it begins with thousands of fans with no tickets going to Paris with the intention of making their way in.

There was some moron on Sky Saturday morning who admitted he had no ticket, but telling the reporter he was going to get in while grinning like an idiot. I'm sure he wasn't the only one

 

[MUW4Eva]

There were no issues with the women's Champions League final, no issues as far as I know with the Conference or Europa League final, so it is very suspicious that it just happens to involve this "English" side where the issues happened......

 

[Pintu]

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[Pintu]

There were no issues with the women's Champions League final, no issues as far as I know with the Conference or Europa League final, so it is very suspicious that it just happens to involve this "English" side where the issues happened......

The fans following women football aren’t known to be problematic… There were problems actually in Tirana and Seville for the EL and ECL finals. But nothing of this magnitude.

 

[Sky1981]

The biggest issue to me seems to be the deliberate decision to funnel thousands of supporters through a two metre gap between a riot van and a brick wall.

Which won't be an issue if notfor fake tickets that's causing delays

 

[DoubleDinhos]

Why no problems with the Madrid fans, then?

Or are they not downtrodden, working class enough to be attacked by the police?

Liverpool fans doing what they do best, yet again.

There has been problems with Real Madrid fans. Look at the tweet I linked by Miguel Delaney. There's been other tweets all day from spanish football fans. Madrid fans have reported similar things to Liverpool fans, local youth hopping fences, bottle-necks and overcrowding at checkpoints.

Liverpool had it worse because the approach to the ground was more compressed.

How about reading literally anything written by a journalist who came in from Liverpool's part of the ground, rather than just looking for any excuse to hate fellow football fans because they wear a shirt you don't like.

 

[Pintu]

There has been problems with Real Madrid fans. Look at the tweet I linked by Miguel Delaney. There's been other tweets all day from spanish football fans. Madrid fans have reported similar things to Liverpool fans, local youth hopping fences, bottle-necks and overcrowding at checkpoints.

Liverpool had it worse because the approach to the ground was more compressed.

French minister said that wasn’t the case.

97% of Madrid fans got inside on time. They used the busses allocated for them. They had basically no issue with fake tickets. (Mostly thanks to Real using digital tickets). Almost no fans travelled without tickets.

Pool fans used only one third of their busses. Traveled in a disorganised manner and it was LFC that asked UEFA to sell physical tickets (easier to falsify).

 

[Rooney in Paris]

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I only need to hear those words coming out of the mouth of that despicable excuse for a human being to know the fans were most likely blameless.

 

[Smores]

English media having some odd takes. It's clear the stadium was packed maybe overly so and yet thousands were outside so obviously many had fake tickets. Sky Reporter sticking to the fact that no one told him they had a fake so it can't have happened.

 

[DoubleDinhos]

French minister said that wasn’t the case.

97% of Madrid fans got inside on time. They used the busses allocated for them. They had basically no issue with fake tickets. (Mostly thanks to Real using digital tickets). Almost no fans travelled without tickets.

Pool fans used only one third of their busses. Traveled in a disorganised manner and it was LFC that asked UEFA to sell physical tickets (easier to falsify).

The French Minister also said 70% of tickets processed to the ground were fakes. The ground holds what, 75,000? So that means over 190,000 Liverpool fans tried to bunk in with fake tickets? How did every journalist going the game miss them?

They're saying whatever they can to shift attention away from how badly they organised everything. This is the same police force that violently suppresses protests on a weekly basis. They're not interested in reforming their authoritarian policing.

 

[do.ob]

The French Minister also said 70% of tickets processed to the ground were fakes. The ground holds what, 75,000? So that means over 190,000 Liverpool fans tried to bunk in with fake tickets? How did every journalist going the game miss them?

They're saying whatever they can to shift attention away from how badly they organised everything. This is the same police force that violently suppresses protests on a weekly basis. They're not interested in reforming their authoritarian policing.

That doesn't quite work the way you seem to think it does.

 

[DoubleDinhos]

That doesn't quite work the way you seem to think it does.

Could be mistranslating, but even if it's the other way, you're on about 50,000 fake tickets trying to bunk in. How many is that every minute? And, again, no journalist reported seeing anything more than one or two turned away in the hours they were forced to queue up. You have to be actively deluding yourself to believe the French authorities here.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Could be mistranslating, but even if it's the other way, you're on about 50,000 fake tickets trying to bunk in. How many is that every minute? And, again, no journalist reported seeing anything more than one or two turned away in the hours they were forced to queue up. You have to be actively deluding yourself to believe the French authorities here.

This?

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[Kag]

Which won't be an issue if notfor fake tickets that's causing delays

Government lies to save face.

 

[Suedesi]

Here's the situation with Saint Etienne from the beginning, seems surreal that fans can just enter the pitch unobstructed and police barely tries to do more than secure the player tunnel.

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Very powerful. I like it.

 

[sullydnl]

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[do.ob]

English media having some odd takes. It's clear the stadium was packed maybe overly so and yet thousands were outside so obviously many had fake tickets. Sky Reporter sticking to the fact that no one told him they had a fake so it can't have happened.

They also seem to be completely ignoring the videos documenting misbehavior from Liverpool fans. It's really strange to watch.

 

[horsechoker]

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The rich should be subjected to this kind of displeasure. In fact anyone who is affluent should be whipped throughout the match.

 

[Sky1981]

Government lies to save face.

What about those vids? Lies? Paid actor?

 

[Sky1981]

There has been problems with Real Madrid fans. Look at the tweet I linked by Miguel Delaney. There's been other tweets all day from spanish football fans. Madrid fans have reported similar things to Liverpool fans, local youth hopping fences, bottle-necks and overcrowding at checkpoints.

Liverpool had it worse because the approach to the ground was more compressed.

How about reading literally anything written by a journalist who came in from Liverpool's part of the ground, rather than just looking for any excuse to hate fellow football fans because they wear a shirt you don't like.

Hearint Liverpool side of the story where they cant go wrong?

The stadium somehow mare their gate smaller because they hate Liverpool?

Literally everyone is going in from same sized door.

 

[sullydnl]

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[Klopper76]

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Doesn't really go with the narrative some on here prefer, that it's all the fault of the Liverpool fans and no one else. I'm sure some will still prefer to simply stick to tribalism, but in reality football is going backwards in terms of both fan behavior (and behavior from locals) and police treatment of those simply there to enjoy the game.

Thanks for posting that. Very enlightening with regards to the Madrid perspective.

 

[giorno]

The racist undertones in that twitter thread though....

 

[do.ob]

The racist undertones in that twitter thread though....

I can only go by the automatic translation, but "undertones" seems to be a bit of a euphemism?

 

[giorno]

I can only go by the automatic translation, but "undertones" seems to be a bit of a euphemism?

I mean, i wasn't there so maybe it's factual, so it's an undertone rather than straight up full blown open racism...

 

[Relevant]

I'm hearing reports that the machines used to read the tickets were ineffective, scanning some fakes as positives and some real tickets as fakes, which led to the turnstiles being closed while they figured out what to do....only it took them an age to sort out the issues all the while creating a huge backlog of supporters in a very limited area. Surprised it didn't kick off a lot more actually.

 

[Relevant]

I mean, i wasn't there so maybe it's factual, so it's an undertone rather than straight up full blown open racism...

Don't you know any Madrid fans who were at the game? If so, what's their take on what happened?

 

[Rob67]

Doesn't really go with the narrative some on here prefer, that it's all the fault of the Liverpool fans and no one else. I'm sure some will still prefer to simply stick to tribalism, but in reality football is going backwards in terms of both fan behavior (and behavior from locals) and police treatment of those simply there to enjoy the game.

Thanks for posting that. Very enlightening with regards to the Madrid perspective.

I don't think anyone is saying that Liverpool fans were the only ones to blame. The over-reaction of the Police needs to be investigated but the fake ticket issue (whether it be 100 or 10,000) obviously would lead to massive delays in getting genuine ticket holding fans into the ground. There are many video clips doing the rounds clearly showing Liverpool fans climbing barriers and storming the entrances. I just wish, for once, LFC and their fans would admit to even a small fraction of blame.

 

[RoyH1]

My boss’s husband was at the game (rich people) and he came back today from Paris. He said that he had no problems coming in, but saw first hand a lot of people being harassed and some robbed by locals when coming out of Saint Denis.
He’s 1.98 and was with 3 other fairly big men but said he felt very unsafe nonetheless. Just anecdotal evidence, but there’s seems to be some truth to what many Liverpool fans are saying.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

This police union bloke claims the biggest reason for the trouble we’re the local ‘delinquents’ that broke in and took up police resources on the ground. He blames the ticket issues on UEFA.

But a spokesperson for France's independent police commissioner's union (SICP), Mathieu Valet, told the BBC's Newshour that "supporters without tickets or with fake tickets... were not the main problem."
"It's clear that we needed more police - we didn't have enough on the ground," he added.

He also said that the tear gas was used to repel the local fans that were trying to break in to rob people.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61630201

Full interview on here.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w172yfbzhzwkh0g

Fair to say that he doesn’t like these ‘delinquents’ and wants more police.

 

[MUW4Eva]

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In Spanish, but a lot of footage here.

 

[sullydnl]

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[RedDevilQuebecois]

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In Spanish, but a lot of footage here.

After London last summer, I guess we should also scratch Paris out of the list for future Champions League finals until they sort out their shit in the next decade.

Speaking of the police union claiming that they needed for men, WHAT THE FCK IN FRANCE WERE YOU DOING IN THE LAST 3 MONTHS?!! All levels of government and police had all of that time they needed to prepare for this. If that is how it goes, I'm already dreading how it will be at the 2024 Olympics because Saturday's final was supposed to be a test. They failed it miserably.

 

[giorno]

All the noise coming out of Madrid is pretty much in line with Liverpool's version of events

 

[hp88]

Doesn't look good for the French as we got more stories like this coming out, I'm not doubting what the Scousers are saying either as I know a couple lads who been over with United in the past and they have both said it can be a bit sketchy at times.

They really need to get their shit together for the Olympics though, don't think this weekend would have put much confidence in the organisers.

 

[big rons sovereign]

The biggest issue to me seems to be the deliberate decision to funnel thousands of supporters through a two metre gap between a riot van and a brick wall.

Kettling. That's what happens when you have riot police handling crowd control. They're trained to funnel rioters into tight spaces before smashing them with the horses.

 

[hp88]

The biggest issue to me seems to be the deliberate decision to funnel thousands of supporters through a two metre gap between a riot van and a brick wall.

Same thing happened to our supporters when we played Marseille but that was 10 years ago so it just shows they haven't feck all over the years.

 

[RoyH1]

All the noise coming out of Madrid is pretty much in line with Liverpool's version of events

Yes. The reports coming from the Spanish speaking press are critical of the police and locals, not the Liverpool fans.

 

[M18CTID]

Yes. The reports coming from the Spanish speaking press are critical of the police and locals, not the Liverpool fans.

No doubt there were a variety of issues affecting both sets of fans but how would the Real Madrid fans at their end of the stadium be affected by tens of thousands of Liverpool fans rocking up at the Liverpool end with fake tickets?

We can all see that genuine ticket holding fans were unfairly caught up in some of the altercations with the police and they have my utmost sympathy given that I was on the end of, shall we say, a completely unwarranted attack by the Madrid police 6 years ago. However, (and mark my words, the truth will out in the end because they will no doubt have the evidence), the elephant in the room are the many thousands of forged tickets doing the rounds. Liverpool fans were openly bragging all week on social media that they had forgeries for sale. There are even posters on RAWK who were there who reckon loads were in possession of fakes and this clearly contributed to the issues. And let's have it right here - anyone not buying tickets from official sources is risking being palmed off with a forgery. Not that too many can claim ignorance though as due to the openly blatant bragging of having "blags for sale", many fans will have known that they were fakes and still bought them anyway. UEFA have stated that this was also an issue amongst Liverpool fans at the 2019 final in Madrid v Spurs but not on the same scale. This clearly was on an industrial scale and every fan who knowingly bought a fake (I will excuse those who unwittingly bought them) has a lot to answer for because when you look at it in the cold light of day, thousands and thousands of extra fans turning up at a football ground with fake tickets can easily end up turning into a situation that is a hell of a lot worse than fans being kettled, tear-gassed, and pepper sprayed. You'd have thought Liverpool fans would've been aware of that more than any other fanbase, given the protracted battle they've fought for years to expose the truth of what happened at Hillsborough and the grave mistakes the police made in opening the gates and failing to funnel fans to the outer pens, instead allowing them to pile down the central tunnel into the already over-crowded pens.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Speaking of the police union claiming that they needed for men, WHAT THE FCK IN FRANCE WERE YOU DOING IN THE LAST 3 MONTHS?!! All levels of government and police had all of that time they needed to prepare for this. If that is how it goes, I'm already dreading how it will be at the 2024 Olympics because Saturday's final was supposed to be a test. They failed it miserably.

I doubt there'll be big issues at the Olympics. I don't think there'll be the demand for single events that could lead to forgeries or jibbing on a large scale. Some people speculated that there would be issues at the London Olympics because of previous issues with England football fans etc but it was completely peaceful. The Olympics is just a different vibe altogether.

The only issue from the weekend that could be a problem is the criminal gangs that were jibbing and robbing people. From what Thierry Henry was saying the Stade De France is in a really rough area so that narrows those issues to one location of many for The Olympics. Given the nature of the crowds at the Olympics I think the police will be better able to focus on the criminal gangs.

What happened after the game seems pretty terrifying

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Productive day for UEFA. Meeting in the morning with all the relevant bodies to find the 'British' totally at fault and then in the afternoon they've managed to set up an inquiry. Looks like they've put a lot of work into vetting a suitable 'independent' director of the inquiry.