Los scousers
Fans behaviour
- Thread starter golden_blunder
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Scary scenes from St. Etienne. Those players must have been terrified.
There's been a lot more pitch invasions than the usual, isn't there? Happening in lots of countries too. A post covid lockdown reaction maybe?
There's been a lot more pitch invasions than the usual, isn't there? Happening in lots of countries too. A post covid lockdown reaction maybe?
This seems like a complex issue, but every report I'm seeing just looks like someone pick on one aspect of it, because they have a side they stand on. For example it seems clear that the security concept failed, but to judge that failure we also need to explore the claim that 30k-40k Liverpool fans showed up with fake tickets, because that probably would have been a leading contributor to security on the ground feeling overwhelmed. Yet English media only talks about the police and doesn't even allow the possibility that English fans may also have contributed to the problems before kick off. Hopefully the external investigations will provide a more complete picture of what went on.
You seem pretty determined to have a dig at ‘the English’ for some reason?
A common theme developing.
I'm just shocked that the entire English media landscape, including the supposedly good/critical ones, seem to be wearing blinkers on this issue. Seemingly choosing to ignore video evidence or claims by government officials.
You've pretty much nailed your colours to the fence all along (well you couldn't be accused of having splinters in your arse
anyway)One thing that confuses me about this is even if the claim that thousands of fake tickets were around is true, wouldn't it have been normal procedure to filter these out at checkpoints long before fans reach the stadium? Isn't that normal procedure for football games of this magnitude?
The video evidence requires close scrutiny definitely, but there's no evidence that THOUSANDS of fans tried to force their way into the stadium......and even then half of the jibbers appear to be local chancers.
In fact the local gangs seem to have been the most organised crew around on Saturday which is a) fekkin scary
and b) a damning indictment on French policing and UEFA organisation.Smells a bit fishy that UEFA, the French Police and the French Ministry all met together before deciding to hold an independent inquiry.....then before that even begins they put out the claim that '30 to 40 thousand fans turned up without tickets so that was fekkin that!' Seem to want to advance a narrative there, n'est pas?
J'accuse! (Pronounced Jack Hughes, the scouser what started it all
)Allegedly
The claim of 40k ticketless is highly dubious. Which pictures show 40k ticketless fans? A train strike meant that the Liverpool fans were diverted and then funnelled through the ludicrously small and dangerous gap detailed in the video below. Do you think that this could have led to the swell of Liverpool fans in the pictures?
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I'm not sure why anyone would take seriously what the French politician was saying given how one sided it was. Yet you claim that the English media is biased. I mean he praised the police for doing a good job FFS.
These lads
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Yesterday I questioned one French politician's claims you highlighted that the same thing happened in the Spurs - Liverpool final a couple of years ago yet I can't find any evidence of that aside from some Madrid gangs selling fake tickets that don't appear to have affected ground management in any significant way. This at least appears to me to be another blatant lie by a French 'official'.
No doubt that some Liverpool fans did jib and there were some fake tickets but the official narrative smells very fishy and reeks of an attempt to leverage anti English/British xenophobia to deflect blame from their own culpabilities.
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I don't take either side's claims at face value. 30k-40k fake tickets sounds exaggerated to me, but there indeed seem to be Twitter posts of people bragging about selling fake tickets. So the question for me is by how much? Because even if it was "only" a couple of thousand that could probably explain a lot of the delays.
And regarding the bolded, how is that any different from English media, who seem to ignore any wrongdoing by Liverpool fans?
I'm seeing two sides, who seem to be very eager to spin this story.
The English media is biased of course. A lot of them were on the ground and feel that they and the Liverpool fans have been done dirty from what they saw. This has become an overcorrection. An inquiry is what's needed but I have little faith in an organisation as corrupt as UEFA to conduct one.
the only thing we know so far is that the security concept was flawed. If it can't handle fans arriving with fake tickets, its probably not a good concept to begin with. The security should be sufficiently prepared, which was evidently not the case.
They can handle that. You just cant expect they put a table and slowly and calmly address those fans with fake tickets and give them refund. You need to get going with the tight schedule.
They lost the rights to complain the day they come up with fake tickets and trying to barge in and probably giving the police attitude when they're refused entry.
This is just needless misrepresentation, bordering on outright falsehoods, at this point. Every journalist who came in through the Liverpool end has noted that it was only the patience of Liverpool fans that stopped this being an actual disaster. Journalists from multiple countries - not just the British media - have shared story upon story that it was inadequate organisation and a horrific police response that caused the issues. If there was a baying mob of 40,000 ticketless Liverpool fans, there would be some proof beyond the same three context-less clips of a couple fans climbing fences and a dozen barging through a single barrier.
Does that mean every single Liverpool fan who went the game was a saint? Obviously not. No group of fans going to a final are going to be angels to the last person. Which seems to be the standard you want in order to actually apportion blame where it deserves to go.
The last I'll say on this because it's obvious some just want to believe the worst, which is clearly what the French authorities were counting on when they spun this narrative of Liverpool fans being at fault. Blame it on a fanbase and you'll have loads of other fans willing to excuse even the most horrible acts of police brutalisation that get shared, all because tribalism trumps all.
I think the biggest issue you have is Liverpool fans have a history of this (fake tickets and issues in and around the stadium
Istanbul, Athens, possibly against Spurs too.
It’s either very unfortunate or there is something else going on?
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You'll have to enlighten me on Istanbul and Madrid because I've never heard of mass hooliganism and ticketlessness at either of those games.
Athens, I won't argue against, but I don't remember the tone of the reporting being anything like this. Again, worth repeating, the media was instant and unanimous in setting the record straight that Liverpool fans were the reason there wasn't a disaster there.
Essentially, you've got a choice. Believe the testimony of everyone who was actually there, or behind your phone screen, decide because you don't like Liverpool 'no smoke without fire'. The more you do the latter, the more heavy handed policing is condoned, and despite what you think, it's not always going to be Liverpool fans on the receiving end of it.
You are at fault. You came with faked tickets. Trying to push through. Climbing fences. And generally acting and can't follow the authority.
You were part of the causative.
Only the patience of Liverpool fans? Sure mate. Sureeeee
Fair enough. You made your mind up instantly. No getting through to you.
Seriously hope United fans don't go through what Liverpool fans did the other day. That's my last word.
https://m.dw.com/en/what-went-wrong-at-the-champions-league-final/a-61969518
Here's another perspective I came across
Dunno whether it's gonna make an impact on Do.ob, Sky1981 et al, but if we're gonna put the boot in to the Scousers it's probably better if we see both sides.... or is it
No problem. It takes two to tangoes. But claiming it's not even their fault?https://m.dw.com/en/what-went-wrong-at-the-champions-league-final/a-61969518
Here's another perspective I came across
Dunno whether it's gonna make an impact on Do.ob, Sky1981 et al, but if we're gonna put the boot in to the Scousers it's probably better if we see both sides.... or is it
And forgive me for not giving them the fullest benefits of doubt.
Which is why we should be strict. Can not means can not. Rules are rules.
If you break the rules bad things will happen eventually.
And I'm not saying this because it's liverpool. If it's united fans I'd say the same thing out of principle. You dont break the law, and saying it happens doesnt mean it has to be normalized. Football match shouldnt be about vandalizing, fake tickets and climbing fences. Regardless of who's color doing it
What happened the other night did so due to a number of different factors, one of which was the behaviour of the Liverpool fans.
Which was more of a problem is something we might discover further down the line but to try and completely absolve the Liverpool support of any blame is naive and blinkered, especially when there’s hundreds of videos online showing them rushing gates and climbing over security fences.
As I pointed out this isn’t a new thing to your fan base either.
So when I wrote this:
you responded with that:
But when a Liverpool fan posts his opinion you write this:
you responded with that:
But when a Liverpool fan posts his opinion you write this:
So is it a sign of an agenda to point out the possibility of Liverpool fans sharing part of the blame? Or are you of the same opinion and just trying create an argument with other users for the sake of it?
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tbh the scousers are turning this into a way bigger issue than they would have if they won the game.
They aren’t English mate. They are scouse. Just ask them.
I've seen maybe three or four videos showing a few people jumping over a fence or gate. Some of these were trying to escape a crush or trying to get kids out of a dangerous situation. Some are just idiots being idiots. There aren't hundreds of videos showing Liverpool fans misbehaving though are there? Massive exaggeration on your part.
There are plenty of accounts from journalists on the ground, fans from both sides and videos to back it up, showing heavy handed policing, poor organization outside the ground and local gangs there to steal whatever they can get. It was a mess handled terribly by French authorities and UEFA (who've changed their story from "fans being late" to something else now).
There weren't any of these problems in 2019 in Madrid or 2018 in Kiev.
I think your fans are known throughout Europe for behaving poorly. Which final was it when they were dumping poor locals in the fountain?
You're talking about a few idiots like it always is. That was one person before the Europa League final. Where were the issues before the 2018 and 2019 finals, or any of the times Liverpool went away in Europe this season.
You're deliberately ignoring the bigger issue and using this as a tribal point scoring exercise so I'm done with this discussion. Football tribalism does my head in and I'll never fully understand it.
I’ve said it was a combination of things in Paris but to try and absolve all of your fans from blame is silly as there’s clear evidence they are up to no good.
I’m also not sure why they always seem to get stung with fake tickets? Again another problem that seems exclusive to Liverpool..
Your lot do have a bad reputation let’s be honest!
That is @TheReligion's de facto response to anyone that criticises something related to England in any way, when he knows they aren't English.
Let me guess. you’re not English?
Not sure what happened in the Europa League final or 2018 and 2019 finals, but there were attacks on Real Madrid and Manchester City buses in 2021 and 2018 when both of them were to play against Liverpool.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ach-has-window-smashed-ahead-of-liverpool-tie
Yeah that's the more idiotic portion of our fan base. I don't think people like that actually like football. They just want to act out and cause trouble. I think it's just those two incidents but the City one was really bad. I don't know how you can even police something like that.
I'm not going to sit here and paint Liverpool fans to be angels. We've got plenty of morons and scum bags. Saturday was different though. It was a dangerous situation and seeing the French officials and UEFA try to pass the blame elsewhere is incredibly frustrating.
Absolutely disgusting that some fans can't put tribalism aside for a topic like this. The more stories that come out, the more it is pointing to a massive feck up from the authorities.
Granted obviously
You think the Pool fans are saying that it's completely on UEFA and the French Police? I'm not getting that impression - they seem to be saying they've got their fair share of gobshites but that the vast majority of the problems on Saturday were caused by negligence and incompetence. I could be reading it wrong though.
¿What?
I wonder why…
Whenever things like this happen you've got to look for common dominators. The biggest for me is that the Dippers' have a long history of having things like what happened on Saturday occurring when they reach finals, particularly CL/EC ones.
Now, I am not trying to label all Dippers as bad fans, however, how many times can they deflect blame onto 'bad stadiums, poor policing etc' and not face up to the regularity of such things happening almost exclusively to them? Especially when this doesn't appear a problem with the opposition fans they are playing that day or other English teams in recent history?
Personally I am of the opinion that, even if the policing was a heavy handed, they have to do something about their fans turning up with fake/no tickets and continual reports that these fans are also robbing other fans of their tickets amongst other reports of bad behaviour.
I mean, it has happened so often to them and all the denials just exacerbates the situation as it will lead to rough treatment by Police as they have to be extra-vilgilent due to past antics.
Now, I am not trying to label all Dippers as bad fans, however, how many times can they deflect blame onto 'bad stadiums, poor policing etc' and not face up to the regularity of such things happening almost exclusively to them? Especially when this doesn't appear a problem with the opposition fans they are playing that day or other English teams in recent history?
Personally I am of the opinion that, even if the policing was a heavy handed, they have to do something about their fans turning up with fake/no tickets and continual reports that these fans are also robbing other fans of their tickets amongst other reports of bad behaviour.
I mean, it has happened so often to them and all the denials just exacerbates the situation as it will lead to rough treatment by Police as they have to be extra-vilgilent due to past antics.