Fans treatment of our British players vs foreign?

[HowieC]

This is tricky question which i wanted to post many times but i was afraid that it will be misinterpreted.
This is not dig or praise at any player who i will mention. Just i have a feeling that there is big gap in patience between those two. First to be clear here, i understand that every fan has soft spot for domestic players and higher expectations for foreigners but lately i have a feeling that there are double standards.

Fans lost faith in Lukaku, Fred, Lindelof, Depay, Blind very quickly. Even Zlatan was bashed after few bad games. Few bad games and people will find flaws in their game but at the same time for years there was a faith for Smalling, Jones, Shaw, Lingard. Now for McT, Rashford, all 3 new signings are labelled as perfect after 2 months in club and things like that. Lindelof lost header against Palace and some fans called for Tuanzebe next game.
I repeat i don't want to start debate are Rashford or AWB on one side and Lindelof or Depay on other side good or not and do they deserve praise or not. I am just asking English fans here do they think that they are too critical about foreign players while they give much support( and time) to domestic players.

Please, don't be offended for this question. I love England

Hmm... I feel fans have been too lenient on Rashford’s poor performances, although I frown upon the personal attacks on him. Hes a good guy, just with middling talent is all.

On the other hand, I feel people have been overly harsh on smalling and shaw.
They have generally at least done their defensive roles well through the uears, and do not deserve the abuse they got.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I am not saying that domestic players are safe from criticsm. Oh boy, they get it a lot. I was thinking more about patience. Domestic players( i am not talking about youth products) will just get more time to prove themselves. Foreigners will not.

And to be fair, jokes about "it is coming home" is something that you must expect after you decide to go with it. During wc it was good and funny banter to other fans but it was obvious from the start that it will haunt you if you lose.

I honestly think you’re imagining this. Remember everyone deciding Bailly was the next Vidic after looking decent in his first few games? Or making songs up about Anderson shitting on Fabregas before the penny finally dropped - years later - that he was just a bit shit?

It’s not about nationality. New signings get a bit of slack (as it should be) and if they look good in their first few games then that sees the goodwill persist for long after a downturn in form.

Conversely, if a new signing starts off badly it can be very difficult for them to change opinions that they’re crap. Evra and Lindelof being good examples of this.

Nationality is irrelevant with these phenomena.

 

[simplyared]

Can't see where the op is coming from here. There is evidence that could speak for the contrary in some cases so no connection imv.

 

[Zlatattack]

This is tricky question which i wanted to post many times but i was afraid that it will be misinterpreted.
This is not dig or praise at any player who i will mention. Just i have a feeling that there is big gap in patience between those two. First to be clear here, i understand that every fan has soft spot for domestic players and higher expectations for foreigners but lately i have a feeling that there are double standards.

Fans lost faith in Lukaku, Fred, Lindelof, Depay, Blind very quickly. Even Zlatan was bashed after few bad games. Few bad games and people will find flaws in their game but at the same time for years there was a faith for Smalling, Jones, Shaw, Lingard. Now for McT, Rashford, all 3 new signings are labelled as perfect after 2 months in club and things like that. Lindelof lost header against Palace and some fans called for Tuanzebe next game.
I repeat i don't want to start debate are Rashford or AWB on one side and Lindelof or Depay on other side good or not and do they deserve praise or not. I am just asking English fans here do they think that they are too critical about foreign players while they give much support( and time) to domestic players.

Please, don't be offended for this question. I love England

Not that clear cut. First of all, all players get stick, there are people who love them and hate them blindly.

Secondly, the English players generally tend to be younger, Rashford, McTominay, Shaw, Smalling, Jones (when they joined) so get a bit more lee-way. The foreign players generally tend to be a bit older and people expect them to deliver (Lukaku, Depay, Blind, MikhiTaryan, Fellani, Sanchez, ADM). Another thing to consider is that the foreign players tend to come on big fees (see Pogba and Lukaku).

Now Maguire is English and on a big fee, we expect an instant impact. Fred is foreign and on a big fee, we expect an impact - yet people gave him the whole of last season to "adapt". Lukaku was playing in the EPL and on a big fee, he's also approaching his prime, we expected an instant success.

Shaw, Smalling, Jones got stick, but also got plenty of time. Now their senior players, people want 2 of them out of the door and most would have Shaw playing second fiddle to someone better if we could get someone in.

Martial is foreign and young, he gets stick, but he's also got Martial FC defending his every move.

I don't think your assessment is accurate on the whole. It might be for some elements, but not everyone. I mean we all hated Fellaini, but we hate Lingard even more.

 

[pacifictheme]

Doesn’t happen with match going fans, only might seem prominent on here where we don’t know people’s nationality.

Also, the British players are constantly slated on here so I’m afraid this is nonsense

Yeah anyone who suggests british players are given more slack is talking crap really.

I'd say there might be a preference for having english players among some of the fanbase (me included) but not to the detriment of the teams performance. I want the best players playing for united, ideally some of them would be manchester born home grown players that have come through the youth ranks, but its not a deal breaker if most aren't.

 

[Santoryo]

This is tricky question which i wanted to post many times but i was afraid that it will be misinterpreted.
This is not dig or praise at any player who i will mention. Just i have a feeling that there is big gap in patience between those two. First to be clear here, i understand that every fan has soft spot for domestic players and higher expectations for foreigners but lately i have a feeling that there are double standards.

Fans lost faith in Lukaku, Fred, Lindelof, Depay, Blind very quickly. Even Zlatan was bashed after few bad games. Few bad games and people will find flaws in their game but at the same time for years there was a faith for Smalling, Jones, Shaw, Lingard. Now for McT, Rashford, all 3 new signings are labelled as perfect after 2 months in club and things like that. Lindelof lost header against Palace and some fans called for Tuanzebe next game.
I repeat i don't want to start debate are Rashford or AWB on one side and Lindelof or Depay on other side good or not and do they deserve praise or not. I am just asking English fans here do they think that they are too critical about foreign players while they give much support( and time) to domestic players.

Please, don't be offended for this question. I love England

Gary Neville should be a good representation of how your typical English fan would treat local players compared to foreign ones, be it patience shown or anything else. Sure most people aren't as drastic and overly prejudiced as Neville but that inherent bias toward English players is still there.

People might bring up the fact that some of the most harshly criticized players currently are also English but that's because they've been stinking up the place for years. The likes of Smalling, Jones, Lingard have been here for more than 5 years and were given passes for years before finally even the bias for English players couldn't shield them from people.

Now compared that to foreign players who get thrown under the bus merely few months into their stay at United. The likes of Depay, Fred, Alexis, etc's heads were being asked only a few months after getting here. They weren't afforded as much excuses as their English counterparts who get afforded years to sucks first then get hounded on these boards.

 

[Amerifan]

It only takes one missed PK or header to go from hero to shit around here, so I wouldn’t read too much into nationality.

 

[settembrini]

Can't see where the op is coming from here. There is evidence that could speak for the contrary in some cases so no connection imv.

If you look at the OP's post history he didn't want to us sign any of James, Maguire or Wan-Bissaka. He repeatedly claimed we were just buying them because they were British and we should be buying the best, i.e. foreign, players instead. He wasn't alone in this view tbf, there were a ton of idiots who called us Brexit FC and the like in the summer.

Consequently I think the fact that all three have come in and been praised for their early performances has upset him and prompted this thread. He's assuming bias because he doesn't want to admit that perhaps his assessment of our transfers was wrong.

 

[Ish]

Simple case of reading what you want to read. Everyone gets so much criticism. Smalling even though played well was called as chuckle brothers.

This. Even Ole’s supposed plan of signing mainly British players have been heavily criticized.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

I feel it's the same thing everywhere, it's not a British/Irish thing exclusively. It derives from a deep-rooted (and quite substantial) belief among football fans that every good team (usually) has at least a handful of domestic players at its core: Players who speak the language (as their mother tongue), know the culture of the country and therefore can understand the idiosyncrasies and the history of the club (what it means to play for the badge) without having to go through this process (not learning, the understanding part). I guess, from the fans perspective, it's a sense of familiarity and a sense of security that if any of these players become a success, they'll stay at the club for many years whereas the foreign players might look for a return to their bases. The whole situation gets amplified when the club's in turmoil and the fans desperately look for their new heroes, the players who will be the mainstays of the rebuild and will lead the club into a new era.

When we come to United, in particular, you also have to take into account our bad history with Latin players who are a huge portion of the "foreign" category. Not many came to OT and set the world alight. But even then you get examples like Forlan who didn't succeed here but he was always shown patience because his whole demeanour never made you question his commitment and his will to help the club and "connect" with the fans. I guess that's also the main reason why Mata's been shown a lot of patience too despite having failed to make any significant difference on the pitch for six years now. He conducts himself in a way that befits a "United man". Valencia is another one, falls under the "servant of the club category". These are three players who in different ways have managed to establish a connection with the fans and the club.

As for our domestic players: Don't forget that many of them are remnants of SAF-era (Smalling, Jones, Young), a period when all of us had doubts about certain players' abilities but we were also willing to brush them away simply because of the conviction that the old gaffer had the club's interests always at heart. Many of these players survived at the club not because they were British but because they were Ferguson's choices and "Fergie knows".

In the end, it's a part of football's tribalism. I see a lot of British/Irish people on here trying to (kind of) apologize by pointing to the rough treatment the home-grown players get on here. I don't think it's necessary, it's part of the game and it happens all the time. I see that some Norwegian posters are very "protective" of Solskjaer on this forum. That's not a bad thing and you don't have to excuse yourself because you see one of your countrymen playing an important role in the club you follow. We also had a flurry of Dutch posters when LvG was announced back in 2014. The most logical thing for the English fans is the desire to watch good English players on the pitch week in and week out and, if possible, to see these players carrying the NT on their shoulders too. It has feck all to do with Brexit or any nationalistic idiocies that are usually attached to it.

 

[Andycoleno9]

If you look at the OP's post history he didn't want to us sign any of James, Maguire or Wan-Bissaka. He repeatedly claimed we were just buying them because they were British and we should be buying the best, i.e. foreign, players instead. He wasn't alone in this view tbf, there were a ton of idiots who called us Brexit FC and the like in the summer.

Consequently I think the fact that all three have come in and been praised for their early performances has upset him and prompted this thread. He's assuming bias because he doesn't want to admit that perhaps his assessment of our transfers was wrong.

You are wrong here. I admit about James, no point denying that. And i had my doubts about Harry and AWB. Harry because i thought that it is too much money for him and AWB because of his attacking ability. My opinion was just based that we are overpaying them. I fell into the classic trap; i evaluate them based on the price and i don't have problem saying that i was wrong there.
But honestly starting this thread didn't have anything with our transfer policy this summer.

Edit: just one thing about James. As you can see in posts i was against that transfer because i thought that he will shut the door to our kids Gomes and Greenwood( who are English) and Chong. So nothing against nationality there. I often said that i am for policy "Pavones and Zidanes". So either we buy best foreign players or play with our kids. I said many times thst i am not for 20-30 mil average foreign player who is not better than home-grown player

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Go to the Rashford thread and you’ll change your mind.

 

[He'sRaldo]

I think a combination of factors leads to abuse, criticism, patience, excuses, etc, and nationality is definitely one of them.

It's not the only one though, so in that sense, you will still see British players criticized. However, anyone saying nationality isn't one of the factors isn't being realistic. And that usually applies to most clubs, not just ours.

 

[jackal&hyde]

It only takes one missed PK or header to go from hero to shit around here, so I wouldn’t read too much into nationality.

In general i agree with this. There is to much vitriolic hate against the players, even against the ones that have been our best overall performers.

Having said that, i have noticed that whenever an English player is criticised or not rated, there will be a good number of posters using the "you don't like him cos he English" argument. So there is an element of some sort of complex of inferiority with some. It's really strange and i don't remember noticing this years ago. I wonder if it's connected to the political situation in England.

 

[el3mel]

Rashford is called a fraud and shit by half this place while Lindelof has just had a free year of being invincible and doing no wrong despite only being decent. Smalling and Jones are called the chuckle brothers while Bailly has "all the tools" despite doing nothing but kick people in the head for years and be consistently outplayed by both of them. Rashford, Lingard, Shaw, McTominay, Jones, Young etc. threads are largely filled with vile dross.

Nonsense. You can revert to Lindelof early games from his first season and you'll see he was getting slaughtered.

On the Caf, all I see is British and Foreign players are treated the same way when we win or lose.

 

[0le]

I don't understand the point being made. Fans have been very critical of all players, regardless of where they are from.

 

[Random Task]

Strange thread.

I thought it was common knowledge that the United fanbase, in general, treats their players equally poorly regardless of their nationality.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Strange thread.

I thought it was common knowledge that the United fanbase, in general, treats their players equally poorly regardless of their nationality.

. You convinced me with this

 

[Solius]

Weird thread. I came in expecting the opposite.

I'd say if anything our fanbase gives the British players way more shit than the foreign ones.

 

[Josep Dowling]

Like some comment have already said I think players who get the most abuse are Young, Lingard and Jones.

From foreign players it’s Pogba but the guys cost £90m and barely looks like he’s bothered half the time.

Maybe British players are deemed to have a better attitude?

 

[Devil may care]

We hate all our players equally.

 

[devilish]

Like some comment have already said I think players who get the most abuse are Young, Lingard and Jones.

From foreign players it’s Pogba but the guys cost £90m and barely looks like he’s bothered half the time.

Maybe British players are deemed to have a better attitude?

Pogba is last season's main assist man and goalscorer. Yet he is being mentioned alongside the likes of Jones who has been stealing a living for the past 8 years or so.

 

[Josep Dowling]

Pogba is last season's main assist man and goalscorer. Yet he is being mentioned alongside the likes of Jones who has been stealing a living for the past 8 years or so.

People know Jones is shit and barely plays so people forget about him. Pogba cost £90m and is the media focal point for the club. Of course he’s going to get more abuse when he isn’t playing well, just like Rooney did before that. That’s not down to nationality, that’s down to people’s expectations not being met.

 

[He'sRaldo]

People know Jones is shit and barely plays so people forget about him. Pogba cost £90m and is the media focal point for the club. Of course he’s going to get more abuse when he isn’t playing well, just like Rooney did before that. That’s not down to nationality, that’s down to people’s expectations not being met.

When he was signed, I doubt people were expecting him to be our top goalscorer and main assist man, all from CM. So in that sense, he hasn't done anything to warrant abuse.

 

[Zen86]

This thread is basically another manifestation of resentment against Ole buying a few British players this summer. There is no special treatment going on.

 

[devilish]

People know Jones is shit and barely plays so people forget about him. Pogba cost £90m and is the media focal point for the club. Of course he’s going to get more abuse when he isn’t playing well, just like Rooney did before that. That’s not down to nationality, that’s down to people’s expectations not being met.

Do you think that Jones would have been able to steal a living for 9 whole years if he was French or Spanish? I very much doubt it. Jesse is still treated like a kid despite being 27 while some still bemoan us selling Welbeck despite being shit for so many years

 

[Wumminator]

It is definitely the other way around. People like to act superior by calling English players shit whilst appreciating foreign players