Fantasy Tournament: World Cup All-Time All-Stars

[Polaroid]

All players who played in the WC are available for drafting. For the purpose of this competition, these players are judged based on their WC prime.

Limiting conditions for the 11 on the pitch
1. at most 6 from 1 continent
2. at most 7 WC winners (reduced to 6 from Semi onwards)
3. at most 6 from 1970 and earlier or post 1970 (go by player's first appearance)

Competition format is straight knockout. After each round, winning teams draft from a common pool of players drawn from the eliminated teams (the drafting order will be reversed from that of the previous draft).

Draft Rules:

Draft setup
1. There will be 4 drafts in total
Pre 1st round - 12 rounds
Pre Q-final - 4 rounds
Pre S-Final - 2 rounds
Pre Final - 2 rounds
Finalists should have a squad of 20

2. The drafting sequence is as usual

Initial draft sequence
Round 1,3,5,...11 - starts with Team 1 and ends with Team 8
Round 2,4,6,...12 - starts with Team 8 and ends with Team 1

3. You have 8 hours to post your draft pick. If you do not do so, the draft proceeds to the next manager in line and it is up to you to post your draft pick at your earliest convenience.

4. Do your part to update the overall list of picks.

5. PM the manager next in line after you have made your pick

6. After the draft is complete, match threads with public polls will be started where each manager posts their match team, tactics and any persuasive arguments why their team has an upper hand over the opposition

First Round (Games and Teams Out)

Spoiler

Games played in the first round:

Rpitroda vs Cutch
Balu vs TITO
Theon vs Gio
Jayvin vs Anto
Cal vs Desert
Crappy&Pippa vs Paceme
Fergus vs Annah
Pol vs Aldo

Aldo 1. Garrincha 2. Romário 3. Scirea 4. Gentile 5. Kempes 6. Ballack 7. Lizarazu 8. Burgnich 9. Hidegkuti 10. Danilo 11. Stiles 12. Escuti
Paceme 1. Platini 2. Rijkaard 3. Djalma Santos 4. Thuram 5. Tigana 6. Ademir 7. Cabrini 8. C. Maldini 9. Clodoaldo 10. Voronin 11. Jair 12. Taffarel
Jayvin 1. Ronaldo 2. Cannavaro 3. Rivaldo 4. Brehme 5. Vieira 6. Coluna 7. Schiaffino 8. Kahn 9. Julinho 10. Mauro Ramos 11. Buzánszky 12. Szymaniak
Desert 1.Moore 2. Meazza 3. Passarella 4. Busquets 5. Makélélé 6. Pirlo 7. Messi 8. Caniggia 9.Branco 10. Grosics 11. Novak 12. Altafini
Fergus 1. Matthäus 2. Falcao 3. Rivelino 4. Nilton Santos 5. Karlheinz Förster 6. Chumpitaz 7. Tostao 8. Manuel Amoros 9. Banks 10. Rummenigge 11. Klinsmann 12. Preud’homme
Gio. 1. Eusebio 2. Figueroa 3. Laudrup 4. Xavi 5. Keane 6. Da Guia 7. Briegel 8. Lato 9. Zagallo 10. Jorginho 11. Roma 12. Fillol
Cutch 1. Müller 2. Facchetti 3. Cafu 4. Santamaría 5. Cubillas 6. Bergomi 7. Monti 8. Nesta 9. F Albert 10. F Walter 11. Goycochea 12. Ayala
TITO 1. Charlton 2. Baresi 3. Schnellinger 4. Zanetti 5. Tardelli 6. Paolo Rossi 7. Perfumo 8. Vavá 9. Gascoigne 10. Cerezo 11. Carbajal 12. Asamoah

Quarter Finals (Games and Teams Out)

Spoiler

Match schedule:

Jan 22nd
Pol/Aldo vs Crappy/Pippa
Rpitroda vs Balu

Jan 23rd
Cal vs Annah
Theon/Snow vs Antohan

Teams Out:

Cal
1st round: 1. Pelé 2. Sándor Kocsis 3. Gérson 4. Blanc 5. Overath 6. Cristiano Ronaldo 7. Lev Yashin 8. Lúcio 9. Leandro 10. Grosso 11. Sneijder 12. Luis Cubilla
2nd round: 1. Xavi 2. Platini 3. Clodoaldo 4. Thuram

Rpitroda
1st round: 1. Zidane 2. Masopust 3. Varela 4. Desailly 5. Batistuta 6. Nasazzi 7. Figo 8. Zoff 9. Eyzaguirre 10. Hagi 11. Marinho Chagas 12. František Plánička
2nd round: 1. Ronaldo 2. Djalma Santos 3. Nilton Santos 4. Lato

Crappy/Pippa
1st round: 1. Fontaine 2. Krol 3. Kopa 4. Vogts 5. Dunga 6. Ruggeri 7. Tarantini 8. Leonel Sanchez 9. Mauro Silva 10. Ricardo Zamora 11. Hamrin 12. Buffon
2nd round: 1. Garrincha 2. Rivelino 3. Passarella 4. Karlheinz Förster

Antohan
1st round: 1. Puskas 2. Neeskens 3. Bozsik 4. Czibor 5. Ghiggia 6. Junior 7. Mazurkiewicz 8. Gamarra 9. Seeler 10. Chilavert 11. Carvalho 12. Rodríguez Andrade
2nd round: 1. Figueroa 2. Romario 3. Cannavaro 4. Laudrup

Semi Finals:

28/1/2014:
Balu vs Annahnomoss

1/2/2014:
Pol & Aldo vs Crappy & Edgar (replaced Theon & Snow)


Pol & Aldo
1st round: 1. Maradona 2. P. Maldini 3. Breitner 4. Zizinho 5. Boniek 6. Ocwirk 7. Zito 8. Ferdinand 9. Cohen 10. Careca 11. Gregg 12. Maspoli
2nd round:1. Bobby Moore 2. Eusebio 3. Santamaria 4. Rivaldo
3rd round: Garrincha 2. Krol


Crappy & Edgar (replaced Theon & Snow)
1st round: 1. Beckenbauer 2. Zico 3. Baggio 4. Kohler 5. R. Carlos 6. Socrates 7. Andrade 8. Van Hanegem 9. Maier 10. Piola 11. Rattin 12. Geoff Hurst
2nd round: 1. Falcao 2. Muller 3. Scirea 4. Da Guia
3rd round: 1. Figueroa 2. Yashin

Annah
1st round: 1. Didi 2. Iniesta 3. Ronaldinho 4. Stoichkov 5. Leonidas 6. Lahm 7. Vicente Lucas 8. Bellini 9. Stam 10. Zambrotta 11. Carrizo 12. Gerets
2nd round: 1. Matthaus 2. Charlton 3. Facchetti 4. Cafu
3rd round: 1. Pele 2. Ronaldo

Balu
1st round: 1. Cruyff 2. Jairzinho 3. Carlos Alberto 4. Davids 5. Silvio Marzolini 6. Frank de Boer 7. Forlan 8. Gilmar 9. Ceulemans 10. Haan 11. Schwarzenbeck 12. Willi Schulz
2nd round: 1. Baresi 2. Schnellinger 3. Kempes 4. Meazza
3rd round: 1. Neeskens 2. Nilton Santos​

 

[antohan]

Draw me bang in the fecking middle, can't be arsed with the constant switching of the order!

PS: I'd argue it is miles better to be closer to the bottom with the switching thing. There isn't really a major advantage in going first with this pool of talent. 1, 32, 48 is a bit shit if you ask me.

 

[Moby]

Good work. Pol

 

[antohan]

Soooooooooooo many cracking players, I'm up to 273 now Choosing between them will be excruciating.

 

[crappycraperson]

Damn.. I am gonna miss having Anto on my side.

 

[Moby]

Damn.. I am gonna miss having Anto on my side.

I can understand that. He's really brilliant to play with.

 

[crappycraperson]

@Polaroid

Add Pippa's name with me, he is helping me from newbies

 

[antohan]

Damn.. I am gonna miss having Anto on my side.

Gonna miss you too. I said I enjoyed Aldo as an assistant to bounce ideas off the most, but there's real value (at least to my sanity) in answering 4-5 walls of theories and options with: "I just want Gotze".

 

[crappycraperson]

Hah! Actually I read everything you said and took it in, it's just that you leave very little to add. And I agree with you that Rues would have been a better option. Would have given us flexibility for 433. Shame

 

[Theon]

Looks awesome Pol!

The one question mark I have is the switching of the orders. In the previous two all time drafts the winners started in 16th and 14th position. I agree with anto that this is now more favourable to the lower starters and numbers 1/2/3 are at a bit of a disadvantage.

I think the normal order works fine, we've had winners from a whole mix of starting positions. Not trying to criticise by the way, just give an opinion.

 

[antohan]

Hah! Actually I read everything you said and took it in, it's just that you leave very little to add. And I agree with you that Rues would have been a better option. Would have given us flexibility for 433. Shame

No worries mate, I never felt you ignored me. I think overall we were both pretty pleased with the outcome.

 

[paceme]

Any places left?

 

[antohan]

Looks awesome Pol!

The one question mark I have is the switching of the orders. In the previous two all time drafts the winners started in 16th and 14th position. I agree with anto that this is now more favourable to the lower starters and numbers 1/2/3 are at a bit of a disadvantage.

I think the normal order works fine, we've had winners from a whole mix of starting positions. Not trying to criticise by the way, just give an opinion.

Indeed, getting two picks close together around the 16th mark really helps build a core theme with a cracking pair of players while going 1 and 32 doesn't. At least you have 33 immediately after... oh wait... Nope, you have to wait 16 more picks again...

 

[antohan]

Any places left?

I think so, unless people have PMd separately.

 

[Moby]

Soooooooooooo many cracking players, I'm up to 273 now Choosing between them will be excruciating.

Yeah there are quite a lot of names who showed up proper in the WCs. I actually just played (and won ) a WC all time draft in another forum so things are a bit fresh in my mind regarding the lists.

I just hope this gets rightly judged but it should be fun nevertheless.

 

[antohan]

Yeah there are quite a lot of names who showed up proper in the WCs. I actually just played (and won ) a WC all time draft in another forum so things are a bit fresh in my mind regarding the lists.

I just hope this gets rightly judged but it should be fun nevertheless.

No point worrying and eventually getting upset about it, it will happen.

 

[Theon]

I just hope this gets rightly judged

What would be rightly judged, do you mean the Messi vs Klose argument?

 

[Moby]

What would be rightly judged, do you mean the Messi vs Klose argument?

Messi is an extreme example. There'll be players who could be picked on reputation and not necessarily being WC stars.

Anyway, as anto said enough of this. We've had drafts based on specific form before as well so not that big a deal.

 

[paceme]

I think so, unless people have PMd separately.

Well I'm in then unless someone pm'd first.

 

[RoadTrip]

I'd like to be in if there is room?

 

[Polaroid]

Draw me bang in the fecking middle, can't be arsed with the constant switching of the order!

PS: I'd argue it is miles better to be closer to the bottom with the switching thing. There isn't really a major advantage in going first with this pool of talent. 1, 32, 48 is a bit shit if you ask me.

Looks awesome Pol!

The one question mark I have is the switching of the orders. In the previous two all time drafts the winners started in 16th and 14th position. I agree with anto that this is now more favourable to the lower starters and numbers 1/2/3 are at a bit of a disadvantage.

I think the normal order works fine, we've had winners from a whole mix of starting positions. Not trying to criticise by the way, just give an opinion.

Thanks Theon and Anto, welcome the feedback


The usual cycle has first in draft order starting rounds 1, 3, 5 ...while last in order starts rounds 2, 4, 6....first in draft order is perpetually ahead
The modified cycle repeats every 4 rounds with first in draft order starting rounds 1, 4 and last in draft order starting rounds 2, 3

For the usual cycle,
First in order gets 1,32,33,64 vs Last in order getting 16,17,48,49
The gap in quality between 1 and 16 is typically bigger than the gap between 32 and 17, advantage First in order
The gap in quality between 33 and 48 is typically bigger than the gap between 64 and 49, advantage First in order
This advantage is perpetuated because First in order is always ahead in starting rounds (see above)

For the modified cycle,
First in order gets 1,32,48,49 vs Last in order getting picks 16,17,33,64
As above,
The gap in quality between 1 and 16 is typically bigger than the gap between 32 and 17, advantage First in order
The gap in quality between 33 and 48 is typically bigger than the gap between 64 and 49, advantage now goes to Last in order
This time round, it becomes alternate advantage instead of perpetual advantage for First in order

Kind of complex, but it makes sense when you delve into it

Nevertheless, I do not mind the usual order if the majority prefer it that way ... and if I am placed first in the order

Any places left?

I'd like to be in if there is room?

Counting you in paceme and rpitroda

 

[Polaroid]

1 vacancy left

 

[crappycraperson]

Thanks Theon and Anto, welcome the feedback


The usual cycle has first in draft order starting rounds 1, 3, 5 ...while last in order starts rounds 2, 4, 6....first in draft order is perpetually ahead
The modified cycle repeats every 4 rounds with first in draft order starting rounds 1, 4 and last in draft order starting rounds 2, 3

For the usual cycle,
First in order gets 1,32,33,64 vs Last in order getting 16,17,48,49
The gap in quality between 1 and 16 is typically bigger than the gap between 32 and 17, advantage First in order
The gap in quality between 33 and 48 is typically bigger than the gap between 64 and 49, advantage First in order
This advantage is perpetuated because First in order is always ahead in starting rounds (see above)

For the modified cycle,
First in order gets 1,32,48,49 vs Last in order getting picks 16,17,33,64
As above,
The gap in quality between 1 and 16 is typically bigger than the gap between 32 and 17, advantage First in order
The gap in quality between 33 and 48 is typically bigger than the gap between 64 and 49, advantage now goes to Last in order
This time round, it becomes alternate advantage instead of perpetual advantage for First in order

Kind of complex, but it makes sense when you delve into it

Nevertheless, I do not mind the usual order if the majority prefer it that way ... and if I am placed first in the order



Counting you in paceme and rpitroda

Interesting. How about a cycle of 4 instead of 2.

Meaning first gets 1,32,33,64 and then 80,81,112,113

while last gets 16,17,48,49 and then 65,96,97,128

 

[Annahnomoss]

1 vacancy left

I'll take the spot, if there is room?

 

[Polaroid]

Interesting. How about a cycle of 4 instead of 2.

Meaning first gets 1,32,33,64 and then 80,81,112,113

while last gets 16,17,48,49 and then 65,96,97,128

Towards the end, the gap in quality is usually negligible

On a serious note, I do not mind the usual order if you all prefer it.

I'll take the spot, if there is room?

Counting you in


To elaborate on the continent/confederation rule, if a player has represented nations from different continents at the WC, the first nation and continent applies.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Towards the end, the gap in quality is usually negligible

On a serious note, I do not mind the usual order if you all prefer it.



Counting you in


To elaborate on the continent/confederation rule, if a player has represented nations from different continents at the WC, the first nation and continent applies.

Sounds great mate, love the enthusiasm.

 

[Polaroid]

Can someone please help to generate the draft order? thanks
http://www.random.org/lists/

Jayvin
TITO
Theon
NM
Aldo
Anto
Gio
Crappy (asst Pippa)
Fergus
Pol
Cal
Cutch
Desert
Paceme
Ripitroda
Annah

Snow - which team would you be assisting?

 

[crappycraperson]

Towards the end, the gap in quality is usually negligible

On a serious note, I do not mind the usual order if you all prefer it.



Counting you in


To elaborate on the continent/confederation rule, if a player has represented nations from different continents at the WC, the first nation and continent applies.

May be a straw poll ?

 

[Polaroid]

Sounds great mate, love the enthusiasm.

Welcome onboard, Annah

 

[antohan]

For the usual cycle,
First in order gets 1,32,33,64 vs Last in order getting 16,17,48,49
The gap in quality between 1 and 16 is typically bigger than the gap between 32 and 17, advantage First in order

At this point I already disagree, in the second round you typically get truckloads of players who could easily be first round picks. The killer isn't the drop in quality but the ability to take risks and shape a side. Picking 1 and waiting until 32 you end up in no man's land, much much better to get 16 and 17 in one go... Getting 33 immediately after makes up for it, but with this new order you jump to 48. How can you build a coherent side with picks 1, 32 and 48? Quality is irrelevant when you end up with a collection of assorted players with no coherent story around it.

You know I've always felt being in the middle is best. It's not a quality issue, just the fact that you only ever have 16 picks in between yours which makes it a lot easier to suss and adapt to runs on positions, etc. With this you take away any advantage of being on the extremes and exacerbate the disadvantages. You will find those who pick first rarely if ever win these things as it is.

The second and third draft switching the order should more than make up for any initial advantage, if any. I'm not particularly fussed about the impact on the games and winning them, it's just the drafting experience goes to shit really. It just becomes a lottery.

 

[Polaroid]

May be a straw poll ?

sure, we will do it quick, 10 min poll from now

Choose between usual or new draft order

 

[antohan]

To elaborate on the continent/confederation rule, if a player has represented nations from different continents at the WC, the first nation and continent applies.

I assume if they won the WC with the second nation they still count as a WC winner though, not that I care much really but there are a few cases here and there where they played with two and won it with one.

 

[crappycraperson]

Usual draft order - Anto, Aldo

New draft order - Pol, Anna

I am still making up my mind..

 

[antohan]

sure, we will do it quick, 10 min poll from now

Choose between usual or new draft order

Usual

 

[Moby]

I think I prefer the usual a bit more. I don't mind if Pol wants to try something new, but I think we've been over this so many times and we usually come back to the usual one being as close to fair as it can be.

 

[Snow]

Can someone please help to generate the draft order? thanks
http://www.random.org/lists/

Jayvin
TITO
Theon
NM
Aldo
Anto
Gio
Crappy (asst Pippa)
Fergus
Pol
Cal
Cutch
Desert
Paceme
Ripitroda
Annah

Snow - which team would you be assisting?

Theon

 

[Annahnomoss]

I vote for Polaroids.

 

[Polaroid]

At this point I already disagree, in the second round you typically get truckloads of players who could easily be first round picks. The killer isn't the drop in quality but the ability to take risks and shape a side. Picking 1 and waiting until 32 you end up in no man's land, much much better to get 16 and 17 in one go... Getting 33 immediately after makes up for it, but with this new order you jump to 48. How can you build a coherent side with picks 1, 32 and 48? Quality is irrelevant when you end up with a collection of assorted players with no coherent story around it.

You know I've always felt being in the middle is best. It's not a quality issue, just the fact that you only ever have 16 picks in between yours which makes it a lot easier to suss and adapt to runs on positions, etc. With this you take away any advantage of being on the extremes and exacerbate the disadvantages. You will find those who pick first rarely if ever win these things as it is.

The second and third draft switching the order should more than make up for any initial advantage, if any. I'm not particularly fussed about the impact on the games and winning them, it's just the drafting experience goes to shit really. It just becomes a lottery.

Anto, if having shorter waits between picks is an advantage, then the new draft order actually helps those at both ends of the order - they no longer have to wait 31 picks every time

 

[antohan]

I think I prefer the usual a bit more. I don't mind if Pol wants to try something new, but I think we've been over this so many times and we usually come back to the usual one being as close to fair as it can be.

It's been tried before though and half the managers couldn't work it out so went missing assuming their next pick was far off

I think it was Pol's other idea of creating pools of eliminated players and starting those drafts in reverse order that sorted this a long time ago.

 

[antohan]

Anto, if having shorter waits between picks is an advantage, then the new draft order actually helps those at both ends of the order - they no longer have to wait 31 picks every time

Yeah, but they rarely get the advantage of double picks, which is a major coup: CB pair sorted, CM pair sorted, wing/fullback pair sorted... Sides are built around symmetry/complimentary partnerships, that's the advantage they get from waiting a wee bit longer. Now they are neither here nor there.

As long as you place me at 8th I'm easy