FC Barcelona 2016/2017
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Didn't see the game last night but i've obviously seen the score. Was they as bad as it sounds? Or were PSG as good as they looked?
If they go out the CL this early then i'm sure they'll have a new manager in no time!
If they go out the CL this early then i'm sure they'll have a new manager in no time!
Both.
Barca gonna bounce back soon or later. They still have Neymar, probably 1 of 4 best attacking players in the world alongside Bale - Hazard - Griezmann after Ronaldo-Messi's reign, thing gonna change quickly once Barca and Messi allow him to be a main man with all satellites around him. Then obviously Messi hasnt finished yet, also Sergi Roberto is a very good lad owning huge potential, imo Sergi was just simply playing in wrong position. Barca midfield can restart with trio Roberto - Busquet - Messi while Neymar is moving to centre, playing with more freedom and becoming the new Messi as CF in Barca classic 433.
Hopefully this process will cost as much time as it could because I am truly a hater of Barca and Pep, but the situation now is not the end for Barca, must admit this with all x-factors they still have - the ones are capable of building Rome in one night, especially Neymar
Hopefully this process will cost as much time as it could because I am truly a hater of Barca and Pep, but the situation now is not the end for Barca, must admit this with all x-factors they still have - the ones are capable of building Rome in one night, especially Neymar
It's funny you say that because Spain has the best UEFA co-efficient (English teams are regularly beaten by Spanish teams) and they were outdone by a Spanish manager who sent the team out to press very high (and 3v3, Cavani and the wingers against Busquets and the CBs) like a Spanish team does.
Everybody does.
PSG is the richest club out there and they won't sell their best player.
I think lots of people just didn't giving credit to PSG for their effort.
I think Braca side still very good but need some fixing. Their midfielder just don't have legs to run.
Also I think messi had off day, the way he was beaten with ball was real surprise.
I haven't seen Barca too many time but how's their league game going on? I heard this season intensity of La Liga is very high. It might be easily possible playing intense games crack them.
I think Braca side still very good but need some fixing. Their midfielder just don't have legs to run.
Also I think messi had off day, the way he was beaten with ball was real surprise.
I haven't seen Barca too many time but how's their league game going on? I heard this season intensity of La Liga is very high. It might be easily possible playing intense games crack them.
I think they're still obviously a great side, but their status as untouchable gods of football is over. They'll always be there or thereabouts in the champions league and winning La Liga every year or so, but they're just like any other top European side now.
I think in a nutshell.
* Lucho will be sacked.
* Rakitic will go at the end of the season (he's benched for a reason, I think he's asked to leave, he's clearly better than Gomes).
* Gomes needs to be sold he's not good enough (and nothing will fix that).
* Iniesta will be close to retiring, or be a bit part player next year.
That's three midfielders gone, you also have Neymar who has been dire all season.
To fix the midfield issue, Neymar needs to be sold, Neymar hasn't been good enough all year and he won't step up when Messi retires, Barca could sell Messi but what's the point.
Messi is too important for branding reasons and obviously he's the GOAT.
Selling Neymar would allow the team to get a RB, 2 CMs and buy a LW with the additional funds with the Rakitic money. I think the Midfield is where Barca will lose the big games like PSG all standing off, against RM.
They can get a "decent but not world class" LW player who finishes chances, the midfield actually creating and dominating games is far more important than a flashy winger who is inconsistent half a season.
There's so many issues that Barca won't win the CL or the League in the next few seasons if they don't fix their midfield, it doesn't help that the dressing room is clearly gone for Lucho.
* Lucho will be sacked.
* Rakitic will go at the end of the season (he's benched for a reason, I think he's asked to leave, he's clearly better than Gomes).
* Gomes needs to be sold he's not good enough (and nothing will fix that).
* Iniesta will be close to retiring, or be a bit part player next year.
That's three midfielders gone, you also have Neymar who has been dire all season.
To fix the midfield issue, Neymar needs to be sold, Neymar hasn't been good enough all year and he won't step up when Messi retires, Barca could sell Messi but what's the point.
Messi is too important for branding reasons and obviously he's the GOAT.
Selling Neymar would allow the team to get a RB, 2 CMs and buy a LW with the additional funds with the Rakitic money. I think the Midfield is where Barca will lose the big games like PSG all standing off, against RM.
They can get a "decent but not world class" LW player who finishes chances, the midfield actually creating and dominating games is far more important than a flashy winger who is inconsistent half a season.
There's so many issues that Barca won't win the CL or the League in the next few seasons if they don't fix their midfield, it doesn't help that the dressing room is clearly gone for Lucho.
Andre Gomes - who is this fraud? I never understood the hype around him.
Compare this comment with Griezmann's comments today & it looks like Barcelona will be where he's heading
Barca is a hostage of Lionel Messi. It was always coming, the only question was when. Very similar situation to what we have with Ronaldo, but also different at the same time. We have to compensate for Ronaldo all the time this season and luckily the rest of our squad is more balanced, much deeper and simply better then theirs, so we can.
Barca just can't and they actually don't. With them it's his individual genius that keeps them competitive. When he's off, their aging squad, slow midfield and signings like Gomes and Paco who add zero depth only emphasize the problem.
I think they should sell Messi this summer. He's the best player in the world but I don't think it's worth it to have the best player in the world if he unbalances the squad and makes them almost completely dependent on his performances at the same time. It just puts them between rock and a hard place.
People like to throw phrases without really watching him play, but when you watch him for 90 minutes just walking in the middle of the pitch, getting involved randomly and doing zero defensive work it's too much of a hindrance. This whole season he just plays how he wants no matter the consequences. He's not a team player and watching him out there is as if he feels he's bigger then the team. Their right wing is non existent which is really a problem when they have to defend against organized teams with pace on the left wing.
Oh and I have to say I really enjoyed watching Busquets all lost out there when he encounters a ref who is not having any of his bs. It goes for all of the team, but Busquets always get's found out when the ref is not interested in his theatrics.
I honestly think Motta being out was a blessing in disguise for PSG. That midfield 3 PSG fielded yesterday was exactly what was needed to nullify their opponent on the night. More mobile, more energetic and equally good if not better on the ball was the perfect recipe against a team that doesn't rely on physicality to win the midfield battle.
Barca just can't and they actually don't. With them it's his individual genius that keeps them competitive. When he's off, their aging squad, slow midfield and signings like Gomes and Paco who add zero depth only emphasize the problem.
I think they should sell Messi this summer. He's the best player in the world but I don't think it's worth it to have the best player in the world if he unbalances the squad and makes them almost completely dependent on his performances at the same time. It just puts them between rock and a hard place.
People like to throw phrases without really watching him play, but when you watch him for 90 minutes just walking in the middle of the pitch, getting involved randomly and doing zero defensive work it's too much of a hindrance. This whole season he just plays how he wants no matter the consequences. He's not a team player and watching him out there is as if he feels he's bigger then the team. Their right wing is non existent which is really a problem when they have to defend against organized teams with pace on the left wing.
Oh and I have to say I really enjoyed watching Busquets all lost out there when he encounters a ref who is not having any of his bs. It goes for all of the team, but Busquets always get's found out when the ref is not interested in his theatrics.
I honestly think Motta being out was a blessing in disguise for PSG. That midfield 3 PSG fielded yesterday was exactly what was needed to nullify their opponent on the night. More mobile, more energetic and equally good if not better on the ball was the perfect recipe against a team that doesn't rely on physicality to win the midfield battle.
I don't think Barcelona can afford to sell Messi.
What would the fan reaction be?
They should probably change their system next season. If Messi doesn't want to occupy the right side, play him behind Suarez and get a right sided attacker along with 2 new midfielders as a double pivot.
What would the fan reaction be?
They should probably change their system next season. If Messi doesn't want to occupy the right side, play him behind Suarez and get a right sided attacker along with 2 new midfielders as a double pivot.
I'd like to see Messi's stats for covered distance last night. Looked like a passenger for most of the time. Exaclty like he was vs Atleti in the CL last season. Defensively, Barcelona are almost always a man less than the opposition.
How much would they ask for Neymar? Would it be worth us placing him in the center of attack instead of Greizmann? And now it appears Greizmann gave a reason why he wouldn't move anywhere except for Barcelona. Unless of course we build him his own little play area where there is sunshine all the time.
I also think what Barcelona should do is to sell Messi. They should cash in now. I'm not sure if 250 million would do it, but if so Barca can more than fix any of their problems and we (United) would be so very happy.
Neymar hasn't been a top 10, let alone a top 4 attacker in this and the previous season.
Can they afford him? They have some ridiculous wages, and I doubt that they can spend 100m euros (+20m or so in wages) for an another attacker, unless they sell Neymar. And even if they do so, they need to fix their defense and midfield first.
Yeah wages would be a problem, but i'm sure Barcelona would find a way to afford him!
Actually, Messi is the reason they still have a chance of winning the league title. If you have a world class player like him - or let's just say the best player in the world - then it's just logical that you're dependent on him. Messi is the reason Barca is still seen as the best team in the world. Without him, they are 'just' a very good team. I know, he's not getting younger, but he's still 29 years old and can play at least two more years at the highest level.
Barcas problem is the midfield, a player like Verratti would do wonders.
He didnt play in the same position he has at Brazil national team you know. That period of time he won Rio 2016 Olympic at the team where he is a centre, a leader with all satellites around him instead of having to play widely as a LW serving main man Lionel.
Also Hazard played shite last season doesnt mean he's not a super player anymore, this year is showing that
After this result....Teams hide your best players as the Barca vultures are gonna start circling. That said, it goes the other way too and there might be some players that might now be 'getable'. I think Rakitic would be superb in our midfield....
They are really not that loaded though, are they?
They need an entire midfield and huge parts of a defence, and players doesn't come for cheap today, atleast not the calibre they would need to re-establish their dominance.
I slept early yesterday so missed the game. When I logged into redcafe and saw this thread, I thought Barca won like 4-0, 5-0, proceeded to check livescore and was absolutely shocked to see the opposite! Oh wow what actually happened?! 
I never saw this coming in a million years.
Has any team come back from a 4 goal deficit in Europe? It's extremely unlikely for Barca to come back now, but not exactly impossible for them to win 4-0 at home. They could have really done with an away goal though, they are more than capable of beating PSG 3-0 at home. If PSG scores just one goal at the Camp Nou, they are done.
I never saw this coming in a million years.Has any team come back from a 4 goal deficit in Europe? It's extremely unlikely for Barca to come back now, but not exactly impossible for them to win 4-0 at home. They could have really done with an away goal though, they are more than capable of beating PSG 3-0 at home. If PSG scores just one goal at the Camp Nou, they are done.
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If you evaluate a football team, then you can't evaluate them based on 1 player or just their forward line.
Yes, Messi is the best player and the front three of Barca is the best set of forwards on paper.
But on paper, Real Madrid is the best team (I emphasize the word "team" here).
Madrid has the best midfield, the best set of fullbacks and very good set of CB's. Then there is the question of squad depth where Madrid is arguably the nr 1 team in the world (Casilla-Coentrao-Nacho-Pepe-Danilo-Kovacic-Isco-James-Vasquez-Asensio-Morata is our bench 11).
You might think Barca is nr. 1, but that aging squad with zero depth is in no way superior to Real Madrid, even if their forward line is much better then what we have at the moment.
Sigh.........this bench is better than most teams starting eleven. Shows the importance of squad depth (and the lack of it).
Some great posts in this thread, I commented already in the Champions League thread stating that this tie will be why Luis Enrique finds himself getting the boot sometime soon unless he manages to win the league. (and even then).
No arguing Barcelona have some work to do regarding the squad. Iniesta cant go on forever and the same could be said for Busquets. RB is also a massive problem.
This wasn't a case of 4-0 flatters PSG; 4-0 flatters Barca. PSG were totally dominant. There is zero chance Barca is beating PSG 4-0.
Average age of Madrid first 11 is around 28 and Barca is 28, if you include Umtiti instead of Mascha then it's 27 (I have included players who played most mins in the league for both teams and also age at the end of current season).
Squad depth is terrible though.
1. The fitness of some players is an issue but the team needs more squad players who would enable the coach to get more tactical options. That team was tired physically and/or nervously.
Draxler and Matuidi didn't play the last league game to be in a great shape yesterday.
Also, PSG played on Friday against Bordeaux while Barcelona played on Saturday... 24 hours of rest matters.
Thiago Silva, Thiago Motta, Aurier, Maxwell, were on the pitch against Barcelona in 2015: the 2 first players were unavailable yesterday and the last 2 on the bench. It means the bench is of quality and quantity.
2. This is the lesson of that game: Barcelona can't win every year and can't always beat PSG.
1995 - QF of the ECL between PSG and Barcelona ---> PSG qualified
1997 - UEFA Cup Winners' Cup Final ---> Barcelona won 1-0
2013 - QF of the ECL ---> Barcelona qualified (2 draws)
2015 - 4 games beteen these 2 teams ---> Barcelona won 3 times and lost 1 time ---> Barcelona qualified for the SF
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In 2015, they faced a PSG side crippled by injuries and bans in the first leg in paris.
This feels more extreme than usual though.
A treble then a double then the sack? That's bonkers.
Barca might win the Copa Del Ray this year. It still a trophy.
Absolutely, Thiago Motta, Verratti and Zlatan were unavailable for the 1st leg.
Game over.
The 2015 team would have at least drew this game 2-2 or something.
A welcomed trophy considering this mess we are in. If we win it that is, because everything can happen at this point.
Neymar one of several looking lost last night. How's he been for them this season?
Bad. Whole squad except Messi been pretty shite tbf. Think Enrique's time is up, doesn't look like the players give a toss.
Matuidi was coming back from an injury and Aurier had been banned.
Thanks.
What's all this talk about "Sell Messi/Cash in on Suarez while you can"? This isn't the NBA where you move your best guy in order to 'rebuild', they'd be lunatic to break that front three, it's the best in the world and they're in their prime - one game doesn't change that.
Bit of an overreaction in here after that heavy loss, they'll be fine in the long term. They'll replace Enrique in the summer I guess and they just need to finally buy quality players, especially for their midfield. Comes, Alcacer, Duran...all those overpriced buys in the recent windows haven't brought them forward at all, they still rely on an old Iniesta, Pique and Busquets who seems to be allowed to play every time no matter his form. If they get some quality signings (Weigl for example) they should improve.
Bit of an overreaction in here after that heavy loss, they'll be fine in the long term. They'll replace Enrique in the summer I guess and they just need to finally buy quality players, especially for their midfield. Comes, Alcacer, Duran...all those overpriced buys in the recent windows haven't brought them forward at all, they still rely on an old Iniesta, Pique and Busquets who seems to be allowed to play every time no matter his form. If they get some quality signings (Weigl for example) they should improve.
Is Pepe not a starter anymore?
Think it's more to do with the fact that without the sale of one of those players they won't possess the funds to purchase the necessary quality in the positions they need to bolster. Their transfer business the past few years has been largely underwhelming, since the Neymar signing I struggle to think of any players that has significantly improved them and it's beginning to catch up with them.
They aren't stacked for cash and they still need to sign Messi down to a new contract, the wages that front three demand must be outrageous and as a result they are penny pinching in the transfer market with players like Gomes. I genuinely believe they need to take one step back to take 2 steps forward and reclaim their former glory because as of now there are glaring weaknesses in their squad, defence and midfield.