FC Barcelona in 2007/08 season....

[FootballHQ]

Was reading the latest issue of FourFourtwo magazine and there was a feature on how Barcelona and Real Madrid rose from relative league mediocrity in late 90s (in Barca's case more early 00s) to basically make La Liga a two team league in the later part of the 00s decade.

However I had to do a double take when I read that Barcelona had finished 18 points behind Real Madrid in 07/08 season. Indeed Villareal actually finished 10 points ahead of them in second which is interesting in itself as to me their peak was that 2005-06 season when Riquelme and Forlan were in amazing form (indeed Forlan had joined Atletico Madrid in summer of 2007).

They finished on "only" 67 points which is their lowest total for 18 years if you count to present season. The previous season they'd lost the title to Real Madrid on the final day (and that really wasn't a great Real Madrid team at all). Actually only finsihed 3 points clear of 5th place.

Now I know likes of Ronaldinho, Deco etc lost motivation and Henry signing didn't really work out but they still had Messi who was showing some great form at end of 2006/07 season (hat trick v Madrid in March 2007) and they still had Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol who'd all lead Spain to glory a month later. Also still had Eto'o upfront. Was their defence really bad that year?

They also pushed a fantastic Manchester United team very close over the two legs, certainly had long spells of possesion and chances at Old Trafford in the second leg. This was the season where Real Madrid were beaten home and away by Roma in last 16 of CL and looking at their line up it looked like a similar standard to after Ronaldo left, likes of Gago and Diarra in midfield.

Interested what the hell happened. Probably showed how well Pep did in 2008/09 considering the negativity when he took over. Mourinho was very close to getting the job that summer wasn't he before board members overruled.

 

[Peyroteo]

On the 1st of March they were 2 points away from Madrid in first place, they finished 18 behind. From March onwards in La Liga they had 3 wins, 4 draws and 6 losses. They just finished the season terribly and clearly stopped giving a shit at one point, that dressing room was a mess.

They were nowhere near as bad as the table at the end of the season showed them to be.

 

[adexkola]

A team is the sum of what they do in the entire season

 

[RUCK4444]

Pep and his bag of magic supplements

 

[Charlie Foley]

This thread makes me miss Matt

 

[adexkola]

1. We overrated them in the CL. I recall the conversation on here after the first game at Camp Nou, about how we played like Stoke and gave them too much respect. We went through with a Scholes thunderbolt but we had room to be more proactive and dispense with the notion that they were more than their league performances indicated.

2. Any historian will tell you to trust primary sources more than anything else. Here's an excerpt from the Guardian after Madrid (yes, the Madrid who mastered crashing out at the last 16 phase before Arsenal) blasted them away 4-1:

Worse still, it was a performance so complete in its patheticness, so utterly gutless, that it summed up Barça's season, "the final brick in our wailing wall" as El Mundo Deportivo put it, "the final stab in the supporters' back", according to a mourning Sport, whose front cover this morning is completely black and reads: "Tragic End: You have dishonoured the Barcelona shirt".

Harsh words for a team that were excellent in the first half of the season. They were shit (despite the quality). Ronaldinho mastering Gary Neville's "2 weeks" didn't help matters either.

 

[FootballHQ]

On the 1st of March they were 2 points away from Madrid in first place, they finished 18 behind. From March onwards in La Liga they had 3 wins, 4 draws and 6 losses. They just finished the season terribly and clearly stopped giving a shit at one point, that dressing room was a mess.

They were nowhere near as bad as the table at the end of the season showed them to be.

I lost track of Spanish football around that time after following it religiously on Sky every Sunday night from 1999 onwards, went to Uni in September 2007 and for some odd reason didn't take my laptop for the first term and when I got back that xmas my Dad decided to cancel Sky and get Setanta so it's a lost season compared to say 06/07 where I can remember quite a few of the narratives and the very exciting final few games.

Yeah looking at the results seems everything was looking o.k until Messi came off injured v Celtic in early March and as you say they had a shocking run in the league from that point. Think he returned just in time for the Man. United first leg. Those two legs actually was a run of Barcelona going four games without scoring.

 

[adexkola]

More history: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2008/mar/17/europeanfootball.sport2

Three months later and Madrid's lead is still seven points; the same seven points it was after the derbi. Because if Madrid are bad, Barça aren't much better. Unfit, poorly organised, plodding, with Henry missing Tea - all ex-pats out here do, Thierry - and Ronaldinho missing training, Messi injured again, Edmilson fit again, lacking a killer instinct or a Plan B, they are a mess. One especially adept at snatching failure from the jaws of success, as the last four games have shown.

If the league leaders were this mid, what were Barcelona compared to them?

 

[Lay]

I recall they were awful even when winning games. Slow, tired and a lot of them seemed off the pace. Their last 3 CL games before they faced us were all 1-0 wins against Celtic and Schalke twice.

We didn’t beat a good Barcelona, we beat a disjointed half fit Barcelona. I genuinely believe we would have won both legs if we just went at them

 

[adexkola]

I recall they were awful even when winning games. Slow, tired and a lot of them seemed off the pace. Their last 3 CL games before they faced us were all 1-0 wins against Celtic and Schalke twice.

We didn’t beat a good Barcelona, we beat a disjointed half fit Barcelona. I genuinely believe we would have won both legs if we just went at them

Seconded.

If Ronaldo scored that penalty we would have been golden.

 

[SteveJ]

It seems almost impossible to believe that a team of such incredible talents struggled to dominate others in their own league and elsewhere...

 

[Sayros]

It seems almost impossible to believe that a team of such incredible talents struggled to dominate others in their own league and elsewhere...

It happens all the time, if the squad harmony is not there, or the coach loses the locker rooms and its egos, and you also have some party animals on the squad that aren't kept in check, it's a recipe for disaster and it's what happened. A recent good example with Madrid was the squad form between when Benitez started the season and Zidane took over to finish it.

 

[SteveJ]

It happens all the time, if the squad harmony is not there, or the coach loses the locker rooms and its egos, and you also have some party animals on the squad that aren't kept in check, it's a recipe for disaster and it's what happened. A recent good example with Madrid was the squad form between when Benitez started the season and Zidane took over to finish it.

Yeah, that's true.

I appreciate that Benitez isn't known for the 'arm around the shoulder' approach to the players he manages - so the negative affect of that has to be taken into account - but I do wonder if he ever had a chance at Real. As with Moyes at United, I think the Real squad didn't really rate him and, consequently, his failure wasn't entirely down to him.

 

[Sayros]

Yeah, that's true.

I appreciate that Benitez isn't known for the 'arm around the shoulder' approach to the players he manages - so the negative affect of that has to be taken into account - but I do wonder if he ever had a chance at Real. As with Moyes at United, I think the Real squad didn't really rate him and, consequently, his failure wasn't entirely down to him.

It has to be one of the most difficult locker rooms to manage ego-wise, along with Barcelona. I can't even imagine the kind of pressure it is, especially if you don't have a big resume because the key players know they will outlast their manager and it'll usually always be the players that come out on top nowadays if it comes down to choosing between a coach and star player.

 

[Infordin]

Rijkaard was absolutely finished by that point as a manager. He actually fell out of love with football entirely, such was the state of Frank.

We basically played the season without a manager. A squad with Ronaldinho, Messi, Eto’o, Henry, Xavi, Iniesta, Yaya Toure, Deco, Puyol, Marquez, etc... was carrying us.

 

[GuybrushThreepwood]

This might be overly simplistic, but did Rijkaard increasingly struggle without Henk Ten Cate as his assistant? Yes I know that often we don't know exactly how influential different assistant managers are, but I understand that when they worked together Ten Cate was the bad cop while Rijkaard was the very relaxed good cop, and that discipline declined massively after Ten Cate left. Numerous reports said that Puyol was more of a manager during the later stages of Rijkaard's time in charge than Rijkaard himself.

Obviously Ronaldinho losing his motivation and discipline didn't help of course. From 2003-2006 he still loved his parties and was famous alongside the likes of Adriano for returning late from international duty, but he also regularly trained and worked out on the beach in his free time as well. That all went out of the window and he missed more and more training sessions. When a player has won both the World Cup and the Champions League (plus other trophies with Brazil and Barcelona), they've basically reached the top of the mountain at both international and club level so maintaining that same focus and motivation season after season can be very difficult.

In Rijkaard's previous previous managerial role before Barcelona, Sparta Rotterdam were relegated from the Eredivisie under him. I know Barcelona were a mess in 2003 (on and off the pitch) and had only just scraped into 6th place and UEFA Cup qualification the previous season, but still that was certainly an interesting appointment at the time (though I'm not sure who else was realistically in the frame in 2003). I don't think reaching the semi-finals at Euro 2000 with that incredibly stacked Dutch squad on home soil was a particularly big achievement.

 

[Grande]

Many factors:

Rijkaard was more a leader through inspiration and reassurance than through tactics, methodology or discipline. He depended on the assistant and players for the tactics and discipline for a large part. He lost the assistant, and a few of the players, then he lost his inspiration and reassurance, and subsequantly the whole squad. What you saw in the league was remiscent of what was seen at United under Moyes, France under Domenech after 2006, Brazil after the loss of Neymar in 16 and Argentina after the loss of Maradona in 94. Morale and motivation really does make that much of a difference in football.

Player by player, I think there was not much between the CL winners in 2006, the team United faced in 2008 and the CL winners in 2009, even with physical form and injuries factored in. It was a marvellous level of base quality. Changes in physical form among a few of the players does not explain it, nor does tactical capability. Ferguson estimated that the level of opponent and the positive mood around a CL SF could motivate and release much of the potential of a frustrated and dejected side with CL winning quality. I think he was right in that - the difference quality of football between Barca’s games against United in 2008 and 2009 was not great (as opposed to that of 2011). I’ve reviewed the games afterwards and stand by that. The main difference was that United was more proactive in 2009, and were somewhat accodentally punished for it by Eto’o and later Messi. The intensity of press, speed of play, individual brilliance was not much different. Barca played maybe their best games after new year against United that season, and United succeeded much in the same way Barca was stifled under Van Gaal by Liverpool in 2001, and under Guardiola in 2010 by Inter - a risk of that general kind of football that was also Rijkaard’s (through Michels) school of thought.

Barca’s football of 2007 and 2009 were not worlds apart, and points to that Guardiola’s immediate success in 2008/9 was built partly on his methods and tactics, but as much on the tactics already implemented through the Dutch school and La Masia, and maybe even more on a bounce a la that which Solskjær experienced at United as interim manager.

 

[siw2007]

Always wondered what would have happened if we went at that Barcelona team over both of those legs in 2008.

United were the best team in the world back then but we really made hard work of them. They had many great players who underperformed that year, I watched them a few times on Sky and thought they weren’t particularly brilliant yet those two games were very stressful. You really saw the genius of Messi over both legs and it was a masterclass in defending to win the tie.

I wonder if had we’d had attacked them aggressively, if we would have made them look poor or if Xavi, Deco, Messi et al would have passed us off the park.

 

[dal]

Always wondered what would have happened if we went at that Barcelona team over both of those legs in 2008.

United were the best team in the world back then but we really made hard work of them. They had many great players who underperformed that year, I watched them a few times on Sky and thought they weren’t particularly brilliant yet those two games were very stressful. You really saw the genius of Messi over both legs and it was a masterclass in defending to win the tie.

I wonder if had we’d had attacked them aggressively, if we would have made them look poor or if Xavi, Deco, Messi et al would have passed us off the park.

Tevez played with two hearts in the return leg, was heroic.

 

[siw2007]

Tevez played with two hearts in the return leg, was heroic.

He did, so many players gave everything to the team to get through that match.

 

[El Jefe]

1. We overrated them in the CL. I recall the conversation on here after the first game at Camp Nou, about how we played like Stoke and gave them too much respect. We went through with a Scholes thunderbolt but we had room to be more proactive and dispense with the notion that they were more than their league performances indicated.

I think Fergie was just so desperate to win the CL that year that he went a bit Mourinho in the Semi's. He had often been criticised for having too much of a gung ho approach in knockout ties so went with pragmatism instead.

The funny thing is just like you said we would have handed their asses to them if we played our normal game. What we did to Arsenal the following year is what we should've done to them but I get that he was worried about the front three of Messi Eto'o and Henry.

 

[adexkola]

I think Fergie was just so desperate to win the CL that year that he went a bit Mourinho in the Semi's. He had often been criticised for having too much of a gung ho approach in knockout ties so went with pragmatism instead.

The funny thing is just like you said we would have handed their asses to them if we played our normal game. What we did to Arsenal the following year is what we should've done to them but I get that he was worried about the front three of Messi Eto'o and Henry.

I agree with you, and we won the trophy so I don't have too much complaints about how we went about things, end of the day.

 

[RooneyLegend]

We showed them way too much respect in our tie against them especially in the first leg. We could've won the 2nd more convincingly if the likes of Tevez were more clinical.

 

[VBI]

Ten Cate had left after the CL win, and he was the bad cop to Rijkaard's good cop. Things started to dip slowly after that. The lack of discipline had started to seep properly into the squad, so even though you'd see names like Ronaldinho and Deco on there, they were operating at barely 50%, Messi wasn't quite up to full speed yet with niggling injuries and such, Eto'o was going in a huff, and he had also been dealing with injuries over the previous two seasons. Too many players were demotivated and not sharp. They shouldn't have reached the 2008 CL semi in the first place, they'd had a reasonably favourable run to get there.

 

[GeorgieBoy]

The moment he gave Scholes jelly legs in the 2nd leg of the Cl semi was the first time I properly appreciated just how insane Messi was.
Hadn't seen much of him before then.

Edit:Not that Scholes was a good tackler mind.

 

[mshnsh]

Was reading the latest issue of FourFourtwo magazine and there was a feature on how Barcelona and Real Madrid rose from relative league mediocrity in late 90s (in Barca's case more early 00s) to basically make La Liga a two team league in the later part of the 00s decade.

However I had to do a double take when I read that Barcelona had finished 18 points behind Real Madrid in 07/08 season. Indeed Villareal actually finished 10 points ahead of them in second which is interesting in itself as to me their peak was that 2005-06 season when Riquelme and Forlan were in amazing form (indeed Forlan had joined Atletico Madrid in summer of 2007).

They finished on "only" 67 points which is their lowest total for 18 years if you count to present season. The previous season they'd lost the title to Real Madrid on the final day (and that really wasn't a great Real Madrid team at all). Actually only finsihed 3 points clear of 5th place.

Now I know likes of Ronaldinho, Deco etc lost motivation and Henry signing didn't really work out but they still had Messi who was showing some great form at end of 2006/07 season (hat trick v Madrid in March 2007) and they still had Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol who'd all lead Spain to glory a month later. Also still had Eto'o upfront. Was their defence really bad that year?

They also pushed a fantastic Manchester United team very close over the two legs, certainly had long spells of possesion and chances at Old Trafford in the second leg. This was the season where Real Madrid were beaten home and away by Roma in last 16 of CL and looking at their line up it looked like a similar standard to after Ronaldo left, likes of Gago and Diarra in midfield.

Interested what the hell happened. Probably showed how well Pep did in 2008/09 considering the negativity when he took over. Mourinho was very close to getting the job that summer wasn't he before board members overruled.

Essentially they had only 1 player performing and that was messi but he was just 20 and injured all too often. And as usual the defence was awful. The rest of them were awful too.

If pep had influence on anything in Barcelona, it was the midfield. The defence has always been terrible and Messi has always been Messi.

 

[BigDunc9]

@GeorgieBoy I remember coming in to school the next day and the talk was how good Messi was. I think that was the first time for many people realising how good he was going to become.

 

[Dancfc]

@GeorgieBoy I remember coming in to school the next day and the talk was how good Messi was. I think that was the first time for many people realising how good he was going to become.

I called it during the Copa America the year before.

 

[Grande]

The moment he gave Scholes jelly legs in the 2nd leg of the Cl semi was the first time I properly appreciated just how insane Messi was.
Hadn't seen much of him before then.

Edit:Not that Scholes was a good tackler mind.

ironically, Scholes did a fantastic job of taming Messi in those games. It was easy to see how good Messi really was at the time, yet he could get very little product out of it. Messi was sort of set up on the right side, and most expected Evra to be the one to deal with him. However, Messi would mainly drift inwards towards the front of the box, and Evra would happily lead him there, as Fergie had already instructed Scholes of all people to pick him up. Scholes never were a tackler, but against Messi he would stay on his feet and nine out of ten times not get fooled by the other little genius, and almost every time lead himout of dangerous positions. It was some of the best defending I’ve seen, from one of the least expected sources. But Scholes alsowas a little genius.

no wonder Ryan Giggs said he was the best player he ever played with, ahead of a host of other geniuses.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

I called it during the Copa America the year before.

Arsene Wenger called it before you

 

[mshnsh]

I called it during the Copa America the year before.

I called it when I saw him in elclasico at the Barnebau18 years of age when after Ronaldinho, he was the best player on the pitch over the 90 minutes.

I genuinely believe that if it wasnt for recurrent injuries he would already have been recognised outright as the bpitw by age 19 or 20. That's how talented he is.

 

[Lay]

I called it when I saw him in elclasico at the Barnebau18 years of age when after Ronaldinho, he was the best player on the pitch over the 90 minutes.

I genuinely believe that if it wasnt for recurrent injuries he would already have been recognised outright as the bpitw by age 19 or 20. That's how talented he is.

He gave Roberto Carlos a terrible time.

 

[padr81]

Was reading the latest issue of FourFourtwo magazine and there was a feature on how Barcelona and Real Madrid rose from relative league mediocrity in late 90s (in Barca's case more early 00s) to basically make La Liga a two team league in the later part of the 00s decade.

However I had to do a double take when I read that Barcelona had finished 18 points behind Real Madrid in 07/08 season. Indeed Villareal actually finished 10 points ahead of them in second which is interesting in itself as to me their peak was that 2005-06 season when Riquelme and Forlan were in amazing form (indeed Forlan had joined Atletico Madrid in summer of 2007).

They finished on "only" 67 points which is their lowest total for 18 years if you count to present season. The previous season they'd lost the title to Real Madrid on the final day (and that really wasn't a great Real Madrid team at all). Actually only finsihed 3 points clear of 5th place.

Now I know likes of Ronaldinho, Deco etc lost motivation and Henry signing didn't really work out but they still had Messi who was showing some great form at end of 2006/07 season (hat trick v Madrid in March 2007) and they still had Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol who'd all lead Spain to glory a month later. Also still had Eto'o upfront. Was their defence really bad that year?

They also pushed a fantastic Manchester United team very close over the two legs, certainly had long spells of possesion and chances at Old Trafford in the second leg. This was the season where Real Madrid were beaten home and away by Roma in last 16 of CL and looking at their line up it looked like a similar standard to after Ronaldo left, likes of Gago and Diarra in midfield.

Interested what the hell happened. Probably showed how well Pep did in 2008/09 considering the negativity when he took over. Mourinho was very close to getting the job that summer wasn't he before board members overruled.

Funny enough Pep actually thought Jose was the man for the job (till it was offered to him). He's said many times he the offer came somewhat out of the blue (think that could be what tainted their friendship). I think that Barca team wasn't nearly as bad as results/league table nor as amazing as some people make it out to be. Pep took over a good team who had recently won the CL (with by the sounds of it a horrible dressing room with many ego) and he turned them into a machine by pushing out the ego-maniacs and making it all about the team.

I don't think their defence was shocking it had Puyol, Militao, Marquez and an ancient Thuram. They just lacked a calm head. While Puyol was a leader he was rash as a CB as were all their CB's bar Thuram (who was practically retired). They conceded feck all more goals than Real who won the league. They were right in the mix too until the last 10 or 11 games or so where they lost 6 or 7 when they downed tools.

Edit: Just checked and they took 13 points from their last 13 games. Proper relegation form. Real by comparison took 29.

 

[GuybrushThreepwood]

I called it when I saw him in elclasico at the Barnebau18 years of age when after Ronaldinho, he was the best player on the pitch over the 90 minutes.

I genuinely believe that if it wasnt for recurrent injuries he would already have been recognised outright as the bpitw by age 19 or 20. That's how talented he is.

Before that particular Clasico in 2005/2006, I remember quite a few people were hyping up the battle of the talented youngsters between Messi and Robinho (although Messi was 18 while Robinho was 21). Of course that was an emphatic win for Messi, he was insanely good that day.

 

[berbatrick]

I agree with you, and we won the trophy so I don't have too much complaints about how we went about things, end of the day.

Plus, easily the best defensive performances from United and the 2nd best I've ever seen (after Inter 2010 away). In the entire 2nd leg their only chance was from a corner.
Worth it for the variety, and the feeling when it was full time.

 

[RedStarUnited]

By the time we played them in the CL, Barca had only the CL to play for whilst we still had the league to fight. Chelsea took us all the way that year in both competitions.

I think thats what mad us cautius. Also the year before we lost the semis because we didn't defend well, something Fergy im sure also remembered.

 

[Adisa]

That semifinal was ridiculous in terms of possession. Gave them too much respect.

 

[adexkola]

Plus, easily the best defensive performances from United and the 2nd best I've ever seen (after Inter 2010 away). In the entire 2nd leg their only chance was from a corner.
Worth it for the variety, and the feeling when it was full time.

Really? Why did it feel like I was sitting on pins the entire game

 

[adexkola]

By the time we played them in the CL, Barca had only the CL to play for whilst we still had the league to fight. Chelsea took us all the way that year in both competitions.

I think thats what mad us cautius. Also the year before we lost the semis because we didn't defend well, something Fergy im sure also remembered.

The previous year we didn't defend as well, but also we were battling injuries, and also were trying to win a grueling title race. Milan were 79 points behind and rested their entire first team in league games to focus on the CL.

I do agree that Fergie applied lessons from 06-07 in 07-08 regarding playing defensively when needed, and squad depth. I can still tell you our starting lineup in 06-07... The next year the only constants were the back line, Ronaldo and probably Rooney

 

[matbezlima]

If you look at comments in Xavi's thread from barcaforum in the middle of 2008, when the 2008/2009 was about to start, you will see how Barcelona's supporters were heavily complaining about Xavi "not making obvious through ball" and overall "playing too safe and anemic".