FC Bayern München 2020/21

The holy trinity 68

The disparager
Joined
Apr 10, 2016
Messages
5,791
Location
Manchester
I did not expect Bayern to be so poor. Psg could have smashed them like they did to Barca.
Very fun game to watch though. Bayern normally gives you goals when they play.
Bayern would have gone through and probably won the whole tournament if Lewandowski didn't miss both legs vs PSG. If your best player is your star striker and he misses 2 legs then it is going to effect the team and results.
 

Hansi Fick

New Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2020
Messages
5,057
Supports
FC Bayern
As for Flick, Bayern would be stupid to let him walk away. I have a feeling that he wants to stay. If the rumors that he will replace Jogi come true, I will be delighted. For now I refuse to get excited over this. Regarding Nagelsmann, I think he should stay at Leipzig for a couple more years at the very least. Going to Bayern now is too early in his career. He doesn't need to rush. Still only 33. He is at the right place learning the ropes. He has his whole life ahead of him.
If he leaves, it is only because he wants to. Of course Bayern want him to continue, and if that's what he wants too, he will. But you can't force a manager to stay against wish, and the strange, stubborn, slightly diva-ish way he has kept publicly displaying his disagreements with the sporting executive, and has been demonstratively keeping his future open does give the impression he might be creating a situation where he can exit without being perceived as the perpetrator.
Or he is using the DFB interest and option for a power play to get more authority within the club structure, which would be a bit cnutish and which he shouldn't get away with.

I agree about Nagelsmann. I think ideally he would have another job before coming to Bayern, I don't feel like this summer would be a good time. (I'll gladly take him of course. don't get me wrong). I've got the feeling ten Hag would be good appointment for now, if one is needed.

I don't 'not rate' Wirtz. He looks a fantastic talent. I'm just wary of prematurely proclaiming him the next big thing. Including him in a group and saying that I 'predict they will not be top players' is too strong, however, that was wrong. I give you that. He might well become one.
 
Last edited:

OleBoiii

New Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2019
Messages
6,021
With both teams fully fit, I still reckon they beat PSG 9 times out of 10.

This is the nature of cups. This is also why I think winning the PL is a better proof of strength than winning the CL.
 

Hansi Fick

New Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2020
Messages
5,057
Supports
FC Bayern
With both teams fully fit, I still reckon they beat PSG 9 times out of 10.

This is the nature of cups. This is also why I think winning the PL is a better proof of strength than winning the CL.
Good point about winning the CL, but what about getting out of the group? Surely that's enough of a sample size?

Or is, by any chance, coming 2nd in PL a better proof of strength than reaching the CL knockouts?
Asking for a friend of yours
 

Paul_Scholes18

Full Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2014
Messages
13,891
Bayern would have gone through and probably won the whole tournament if Lewandowski didn't miss both legs vs PSG. If your best player is your star striker and he misses 2 legs then it is going to effect the team and results.
Not sure Lewa is not someone improving the defending. The scoreline flatter Bayern with the chances missed. Also Choupo did a good job and scored 2 goals.
I think Goretzka was a bigger miss to help the defenders.
 

OleBoiii

New Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2019
Messages
6,021
Good point about winning the CL, but what about getting out of the group? Surely that's enough of a sample size?
The last time I checked 38 games is more than 6. The problem remains the same. One uncharacteristically bad day(or even just a few bad minutes) can be enough to take away your chance of further play. If you genuinely think that every team that advanced from the group stages would do better than United in a league format, then so be it.

Cups are entertaining because more are at stake, but it's never gonna be the best way to determine the strongest team. The strongest team will practically always win a league. That is definitely not the case with cups. PSG are not stronger than Bayern, yet they have now gone further.
 

KiD MoYeS

Good Craig got his c'nuppins
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
32,863
Location
Love is Blind
Watching Bayern last night and how well they moved the ball it was no wonder Thiago looked so good there.
 

Andycoleno9

matchday malcontent
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
28,576
Location
Croatia
Flick has been on collision course with the board and I don't quite know why. But one thing is clear, he's not going to get more power at Bayern, and why would he.
He can either be satisfied with what he gets or he can feck off if he prefers the Germany job.
Isn't a story that he wants to have a say about transfers? Btw, why in Bayern managers are not involved in transfers?
I read what Kovac said. And he says that he wasn't asked about anything regarding transfers
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
15,567
Location
Germany
Supports
Borussia Dortmund
Isn't a story that he wants to have a say about transfers? Btw, why in Bayern managers are not involved in transfers?
I read what Kovac said. And he says that he wasn't asked about anything regarding transfers
If you don't want to "rebuild" and "clear out the deadwood" every time your coach leaves it can be a good idea to leave the transfers to a dof.
 

Hansi Fick

New Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2020
Messages
5,057
Supports
FC Bayern
Isn't a story that he wants to have a say about transfers? Btw, why in Bayern managers are not involved in transfers?
I read what Kovac said. And he says that he wasn't asked about anything regarding transfers
They are involved, of course. But they don't have final say, however that works out exactly day to day.
I assume case by case, situation to situation, it can be more collaborative and in concordance, or less so. Obviously, the less it is in concordance, the less sustainable the situation as a whole.
 

thepolice123

Full Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
12,179
Wasn’t Rummeingge the one who personally hired Salihamidzic? Now he is backing Flick instead? What a bizarre turn of events.

If there’s a need, we have thugs in Manchester who are experts at vandalising the club CEO’s house. :lol:
 

Iker Quesadillas

Full Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2021
Messages
3,896
Supports
Real Madrid
The last time I checked 38 games is more than 6. The problem remains the same. One uncharacteristically bad day(or even just a few bad minutes) can be enough to take away your chance of further play. If you genuinely think that every team that advanced from the group stages would do better than United in a league format, then so be it. Cups are entertaining because more are at stake, but it's never gonna be the best way to determine the strongest team. The strongest team will practically always win a league. That is definitely not the case with cups. PSG are not stronger than Bayern, yet they have now gone further.
The problem is that "more games" allows for external factors unrelated to being "the strongest team" to influence the results. Cup competitions can be unforgiving because your 'chance of further play' can be taken away, but alternatively, you can survive a bad day and move on from it. In the league, you can't: an uncharacteristically bad day means you lost three points, and you are never gaining them back. Given that league titles are often decided by 3-5 points, that means the gap between the 'strongest' team and the 'second strongest team' is often the size of an 'uncharacteristically bad day.'

It's not that easy to determine what qualifies as an uncharacteristically bad day, an uncharacteristically bad run of form, and an uncharacteristically bad season, and how they differ from characteristically bad days, runs, or seasons.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cheimoon

stefan92

Full Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2021
Messages
5,947
Supports
Hannover 96
Wasn’t Rummeingge the one who personally hired Salihamidzic? Now he is backing Flick instead? What a bizarre turn of events.

If there’s a need, we have thugs in Manchester who are experts at vandalising the club CEO’s house. :lol:
Salihamidzic is mostly seen as Hoeneß' puppet, Flick is considered to be a Rummenigge decision.
 

Hansi Fick

New Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2020
Messages
5,057
Supports
FC Bayern
The last time I checked 38 games is more than 6. The problem remains the same. One uncharacteristically bad day(or even just a few bad minutes) can be enough to take away your chance of further play. If you genuinely think that every team that advanced from the group stages would do better than United in a league format, then so be it.

Cups are entertaining because more are at stake, but it's never gonna be the best way to determine the strongest team. The strongest team will practically always win a league. That is definitely not the case with cups. PSG are not stronger than Bayern, yet they have now gone further.
PSG deserved to go through based on yesterday's performances. All in all, there's not so much between the two teams, which can also be seen in the fact we faced them in the final last season and it was a very even game then.
Your general point is of course true, but in order to even play the few occasions of CL games, you have to perform well in your league first, so it's kind of moot. Usually, there will be a rather large coherence between who are the best teams over the course of a league season and who do well in the CL.
 

Hansi Fick

New Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2020
Messages
5,057
Supports
FC Bayern
Salihamidzic is mostly seen as Hoeneß' puppet, Flick is considered to be a Rummenigge decision.
I think there's a bit more moving parts than that. Hoeness for example, sabotaged the Tuchel appointment which Salihamidzic was also propagating. He's out of the daily operations, but still messes about as a patriarch.

Bottom line is, Hoeness's loose cannon interventions have been one of the main problems, also in the current Boateng farce that's at the core of the recent leadership crisis.
 

Hansi Fick

New Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2020
Messages
5,057
Supports
FC Bayern
The problem is that "more games" allows for external factors unrelated to being "the strongest team" to influence the results. Cup competitions can be unforgiving because your 'chance of further play' can be taken away, but alternatively, you can survive a bad day and move on from it. In the league, you can't: an uncharacteristically bad day means you lost three points, and you are never gaining them back. Given that league titles are often decided by 3-5 points, that means the gap between the 'strongest' team and the 'second strongest team' is often the size of an 'uncharacteristically bad day.'

It's not that easy to determine what qualifies as an uncharacteristically bad day, an uncharacteristically bad run of form, and an uncharacteristically bad season, and how they differ from characteristically bad days, runs, or seasons.
Well put.
Generally, it's not really possible to exactly quantify quality in football, due to it being a sport where few and single occurrences with random factors can have such an impact. Which is also why it's a problematic sport to interpret with stats. And which is why it's, bloody hell.
 

OleBoiii

New Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2019
Messages
6,021
Nonsense. So if you were a bookmaker you'd give Bayern 1.11 odds to advance?
If you kidnapped both teams, put them on an island, popped all players full of drugs to make sure they don't get injured and then had them play 10 games over the course of 5 weeks then yeah, I'd give Bayern pretty amazing odds.

That's not how the CL works, though. Porto '04, Liverpool '05 and Chelsea '12 send their regards. Cups are too volatile. That's also why they are entertaining. If I was in charge, I'd want single-eliminations on neutral grounds in the CL. That's much more entertaining than double-elimination.
 

Devil81

Full Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2014
Messages
6,646
Looking at what's happened to Bayern it's made me realise I wouldn't want a Lewandowski/Kane type situation at United. I'd obviously want both players at the club but they both demand to play that much it's almost impossible to sign a decent understudy who will happily sit out every match.

The main issue with that is if they get injured you left with a replacement that isn't good enough.

Bayern were out when it was confirm Lewandowski was injured for both ties.
 

Piratesoup

Full Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2013
Messages
6,939
Supports
Bayern München
Stop posting this Sky tweet as if it's anything official. Why would Lothar fecking Matthäus of all people be in a position to break those news? :lol:
 

Blackwidow

Full Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
7,746
Looking at what's happened to Bayern it's made me realise I wouldn't want a Lewandowski/Kane type situation at United. I'd obviously want both players at the club but they both demand to play that much it's almost impossible to sign a decent understudy who will happily sit out every match.

The main issue with that is if they get injured you left with a replacement that isn't good enough.

Bayern were out when it was confirm Lewandowski was injured for both ties.
No. The biggest problem was the pile of injuries that piled up in the recent weeks and that some players like Kimmich and Müller had to go every minute between the matches - and you cannot expect them to go full workrate in all this matches but at the end be the ones that have the energy to be decisive, too. Lewy was not too decisive in the recent years either in this matches - he was very valuable as he attracts the defenders more than his replacement does but he has as many goals sind 2010/11 from quarter final onwards as Müller has.

Just as an example: Somebody has posted the top running data in the EPL of last season in a recent post - best was 13.21 km of Dendocker in a Wolves-Brighton match with 13.21km - rank 7th were 12,79. Kimmich ran 13.1 in the match against Leipzig and 12.9 km against Union Berlin last Saturday in between the PSG matches. In the first PSG match he did 38 pressings what tells about the intensity, too.

Lewy is a miss, yes, but Gnabry who recently got back his shooting boots again is, too - and when we have 3 wingers available Flick can rotate and give everybody a rest. Goretzka has been a standout offensively as well as defensively - he is more a goal threat whereas Kimmich is the creative mind in central midfield.

In this matches you need to be 100% - the last years have told us that. The injury situation in the recent days I have seen this extent in the last time in 2014/15 when we went out against Barcelona.

The whole situation and schedule of this season did not really benefit the club and there were made mistakes in the whole squad planning. Flick never had a real preparation and that already showed last season when we benefitted a lot from a skeleton that mainly was build from players that still were Pep kids and the structures they learned. We always got in trouble when players of this central axis could not play or were substituted. Selling Thiago without need in that situation, getting players very late so there were never really a time to build them in etc.
 

kaiser1

Full Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2018
Messages
1,951
Supports
Bayern Munich
It's fair to mention last CL campaign Bayern gained a lot from BuLi finishing 3 weeks before La Liga and 4 before Premier League. It definitely made them look better.
Bayern already trashed Spurs and Chelsea before the covid break
 

kaiser1

Full Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2018
Messages
1,951
Supports
Bayern Munich
They did incredibly well over the two legs considering their injury crisis but how on earth that a side like Bayern that have a stranglehold on the Bundesliga and are always in the mix for the champions league every season that they have had to resort their back up striker being choupo.
Who is the backup striker for Madrid, Barcelona and other clubs usually in the mix for the CL every season?
 

kaiser1

Full Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2018
Messages
1,951
Supports
Bayern Munich
Isn't a story that he wants to have a say about transfers? Btw, why in Bayern managers are not involved in transfers?
I read what Kovac said. And he says that he wasn't asked about anything regarding transfers
Coaches have a say but they don't dictate so we don't have a situation where Mourinho loads up the team with his type of player, leaves and the next coach is looking for a way to sell all 5 players bought just 1yr ago on a long contract
 

Piratesoup

Full Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2013
Messages
6,939
Supports
Bayern München
Choupo-Moting scored in both legs, don't know why he's catching stray bullets here. He's doing fine as a backup striker. As if Barcelona could replace Messi or PSG Mbappe or Neymar without a significant drop in quality...
 

gibers

Full Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2017
Messages
1,065
Location
UK
They were easily the strongest team in the competition with all players fit. Unfortunately for them, their missed chances in their first leg cost them. Goes to show people why elite goal scorers are now priced at 100+ mill. Finishing is everything.
 

Acrobat7

Full Member
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
5,178
Supports
Bayern Munich
Wait... Lothar fecking Matthäus is now a trusted source? :houllier:
 

Black Adder

Rarer than an eclipse.
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Messages
3,660
Location
Hrvatska
PSG deserved to go through but with small margin. Because of that still think that with Lewa upfront Bayern would top them.

Similar to us and Rooney being injured when Bayern knocked United out back in 2010.

Good games for neutral watchers, some nice football was played on both sides!
 

thepolice123

Full Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
12,179
PSG deserved to go through but with small margin. Because of that still think that with Lewa upfront Bayern would top them.

Similar to us and Rooney being injured when Bayern knocked United out back in 2010.

Good games for neutral watchers, some nice football was played on both sides!
Tbf we actually did fine with a crocked Rooney, I thought we were superior to that Bayern team and we bottled it. Losing that tie was entirely our own undoing.
 

Black Adder

Rarer than an eclipse.
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Messages
3,660
Location
Hrvatska
Tbf we actually did fine with a crocked Rooney, I thought we were superior to that Bayern team and we bottled it. Losing that tie was entirely our own undoing.
We did, losing that first match was real bottle job, but overall we lacked that little something and it was fit Rooney IMO. He was unreal that year!
 

thepolice123

Full Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
12,179
We did, losing that first match was real bottle job, but overall we lacked that little something and it was fit Rooney IMO. He was unreal that year!
We blew them to bits in the first half of the second leg. I think they shat themselves when they saw Rooney starting. It started going downhill after Olic ragdolled Carrick and scored from a tight angle. And then there was the Rafael red card...
 

Hansi Fick

New Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2020
Messages
5,057
Supports
FC Bayern
Tbf we actually did fine with a crocked Rooney, I thought we were superior to that Bayern team and we bottled it. Losing that tie was entirely our own undoing.
Didn't Rooney have to go off during the second leg?

I always felt like the injury he sustained there (or was is a latent injury flaring up?) spelled the end of his time as an elite player. But I didn't follow too closely how well he did for you in the following seasons.
 

SAFMUTD

New Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2018
Messages
11,787
So that Hernandez is world's 3rd most expensive defender, right? Thought he was so poor yesterday and overall looks like a 6/10 player.
We must have watched different games, he was superb yesterday. Nothing short of worldclass performance.
 

thepolice123

Full Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
12,179
Didn't Rooney have to go off during the second leg?

I always felt like the injury he sustained there (or was is a latent injury flaring up?) spelled the end of his time as an elite player. But I didn't follow too closely how well he did for you in the following seasons.
No he was injured towards the end of the first leg and came back as a surprise inclusion in the second leg.

His final great season was 11/12.