Finances - Europa vs Champions League

[Bastian]

Of course there are numerous benefits in qualifying and cons in failing to do so. It's perhaps difficult to evaluate sponsorship impact, but apparently the annual £75m Adidas drops down to £50m without the CL. Then there's the TV money from the CL (compared to the Europa). I've seen very different figures bandied about, regarding both TV money and prize money, for the CL. I haven't got a clue about the Europa.

Listened to the Transfer Window podcast and they were talking about some huge figures. Does anyone have a ballpark figure for the difference to United's financials with regards to the Europa and Champions League?

And is the 25% wage cut across the board, inclusive of all the players, when we fail to qualify for the CL?

Just trying to get a better idea about how the next 3 matches will impact our finances.

 

[Bastian]

Does no one know the financial difference - I can't find it, hence asking. And here I was thinking this was interesting with view to our transfer window..

 

[lsd]

Is there a difference in tv money for clubs who qualify for the champions league through the Europa Cup and those who qualify via their league ?

I'm sure i remember hearing something about it last time we won the Europa

 

[Revan]

Is there a difference in tv money for clubs who qualify for the champions league through the Europa Cup and those who qualify via their league ?

I'm sure i remember hearing something about it last time we won the Europa

I think so. We don't get the money from group stage (or probably, "some" money from the group stage) or something. Or maybe it was that some money goes to the league to be shared from the four clubs that got qualified, and a team getting qualified from Europa League does not get any money from it.

But yes, last time we were there from EL, we got less money than a team who would have reached the same results but qualified via the League.

 

[TheNewEra]

It's available on a Marca Article.

https://www.marca.com/en/football/international-football/2019/07/11/5d27616646163f138c8b45aa.html

Champions League

Breakdown of prize money for 2019/20 Champions League *

1. Reaching the group stages: 15 million euros
2. Reaching the round of 16: 9.5 million euros
3. Reaching the quarter-finals: 10.5 million euros
4. Reaching the semi-finals: 12 million euros
5. Reaching the final: 15 million euros
6. Winning the final: 4 million euros

* UEFA will also pay teams 2.7 million euros for every match they win and 900,000 euros for every match they draw.

So, if a team wins every single game on their way to lifting the Champions League trophy, they will earn 82.2 million euros.

Champions League: Maximum 82.2 million euros

Europa League

Breakdown of prize money for 2019/20 Europa League

1. Reaching the group stages: 2.75 million euros
2. Reaching the round of 32: 500,000 euros
3. Reaching the round of 16: 1.1 million euros
4. Reaching the quarter-finals: 1.5 million euros
5. Reaching the semi-finals: 2.4 million euros
6. Reaching the final: 4.5 million euros
7. Winning the final: 4 million euros

Europa League: Maximum 16.75 million euros

Stage	Champions League (Million Euros)	Europa League (Million Euros)	Difference (Million Euros)
Group Stage	15	2.75	12.25
Round of 16	9.5	1.6	7.9
Quarter Finals	10.5	1.5	9
Semi Finals	12	2.4	9.6
Final	15	4.5	10.5
Win Final	4	4	0
Total	66	16.75	49.25

If you go all the way in both tournaments it's approximately (based on mental mathematics here) ~50 million euros less (plus the 2.7 million euro per match won bonus)

Unsure of the "paid per match won" is also for the Europa League *

Coefficient Ranking Payments* payed to clubs based on their ranking
Coefficient ranking (€84m)
On the basis of the new ten-year ranking, a ranking table has been established and the total amount of €84m has been divided into 'coefficient shares', each worth €71,430. The lowest-ranked team will receive one share (€71,430). One share will be added to every rank and so the highest-ranked team will receive 48 shares (€3.42m).

https://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/revenue/index.html

Man Utd are 7th in the coefficient ranking for payments of shares.

 

[Bastian]

It's available on a Marca Article.

https://www.marca.com/en/football/international-football/2019/07/11/5d27616646163f138c8b45aa.html

Champions League




Europa League



Europa League you don't get paid 2.7 million per match won, and the prize money at each stage is significantly less.

If you go all the way in both tournaments it's approximately (based on mental mathematics here) ~50 million euros less (plus the 2.7 million euro per match won bonus)

Thanks for that - excellent. For an OK Champions League season, we'd probably be looking at 6 wins or more. So another 16m euros. So that's 66m euros - roughly 59m pounds + 25m extra from Adidas, 84m. Whereas, 14.5m (16m euros) from the Europa, max, according to your math. So 70m drop.

I'm not sure how the wages are calculated, whether it's all the staff though it's surely just the players (probably +95% of all wages) who take that 25% no CL cut. Come to think of it, it's a rather ingenious stipulation by the club. One could argue it should even be a higher cut.

 

[TheNewEra]

Thanks for that - excellent. For an OK Champions League season, we'd probably be looking at 6 wins or more. So another 16m euros. So that's 66m euros - roughly 59m pounds + 25m extra from Adidas, 84m. Whereas, 14.5m (16m euros) from the Europa, max, according to your math. So 70m drop.

I'm not sure how the wages are calculated, whether it's all the staff though it's surely just the players (probably +95% of all wages) who take that 25% no CL cut. Come to think of it, it's a rather ingenious stipulation by the club. One could argue it should even be a higher cut.

I've updated my post slightly with a little more information, it's certainly a huge loss to be out of the CL (Adidas and CL prize money yes).

 

[Bastian]

I've updated my post slightly with a little more information, it's certainly a huge loss to be out of the CL (Adidas and CL prize money yes).

Yes, and it has huge factors outside of the finances and it most definitely affects sponsorship money, which is hard to gauge. Effectively the boys are playing for a 25% wage rise, apart from everything else.

 

[Bastian]

Athletic says CL brings between £85 million to £100 million, while Europa £40 million. And of course, CL qualification ensures the full benefit of the Adidas deal (not cut down by £25m, or £22.5m as Athletic contend).

While the players get their wages back up having taken on that 25% cut.

Seems all roads lead to the same place: Get rid of underperforming players, perma-crocked players and those who don't fit. That's one long list. And we have to stop dishing out outlandish contracts unless it's for genuine and consistent world class performances.

 

[ti vu]

Athletic says CL brings between £85 million to £100 million, while Europa £40 million. And of course, CL qualification ensures the full benefit of the Adidas deal (not cut down by £25m, or £22.5m as Athletic contend).

While the players get their wages back up having taken on that 25% cut.

Seems all roads lead to the same place: Get rid of underperforming players, perma-crocked players and those who don't fit. That's one long list. And we have to stop dishing out outlandish contracts unless it's for genuine and consistent world class performances.

Short term, it may not be that huge of an issue. However an EL regular would face negative chain effect on sponsorship and domestic TV deals long term. Playing in EL on Thursday would mean losing flexibility to broadcast the games, now that other leagues are improving their appeal. Sponsor wants exposure. Less flexibility = higher risk of losing that exposure. We know how other leagues are more flexible to move schedule to accodomate their egg laying hens of clubs. PL clubs have less room to maneuver hence it's more a big deal to qualify for CL football. Having opened gates for clubs that can live off money from sugar daddy like PL, who didn't care about revenue yet still able to compete, leaving it more competitive, desperate for the "more organic" clubs to fight for this CL club status.

 

[Bastian]

Short term, it may not be that huge of an issue. However an EL regular would face negative chain effect on sponsorship and domestic TV deals long term. Playing in EL on Thursday would mean losing flexibility to broadcast the games, now that other leagues are improving their appeal. Sponsor wants exposure. Less flexibility = higher risk of losing that exposure. We know how other leagues are more flexible to move schedule to accodomate their egg laying hens of clubs. PL clubs have less room to maneuver hence it's more a big deal to qualify for CL football. Having opened gates for clubs that can live off money from sugar daddy like PL, who didn't care about revenue yet still able to compete, leaving it more competitive, desperate for the "more organic" clubs to fight for this CL club status.

Absolutely this. There are contextual effects that will impact the club, and have impacted the club. And even, if we hypothetically assume that all the board cares about is CL qualification year in, year out, the splash Chelsea are now making in the market means we simply have to compete financially. To do so, the most sensible decision we could make is appoint people who know what they're doing so we stop wasting hundreds of millions of pounds where we don't need to or shouldn't.

 

[Isotope]

Need to consider that teams are more likely to go out much earlier at CL than Europe. Also, players most likely are getting bonuses and/or wage increase with CL. And winning trophy is actually matter more than just being in CL as a goal.

All in all, the money difference may not be that big.

 

[lysglimt]

It should be added that all our players have C.L-clauses in their contracts as I understand it. So if we don't play in the C.L - the wages probably drop quite a bit. I assume we still have this - I think Alan Smith was the first player to get this into his contract - about 15 years ago

 

[Infra-red]

It should be added that all our players have C.L-clauses in their contracts as I understand it. So if we don't play in the C.L - the wages probably drop quite a bit. I assume we still have this - I think Alan Smith was the first player to get this into his contract - about 15 years ago

I believe that it's a 25% cut in years where we don't participate in the CL.

 

[Bastian]

Guys, that's clearly stated in the OP and subsequent posts - no CL, 25% wage reduction. @Isotope CL money matters a hell of a lot - why else would you have managers sacked as soon as that objective is not met (I mean, both Moyes and LVG could have gone sooner). The difference in money - leaving the wages out of it, is somewhere between £50-80m. Now we save on wages if we don't qualify, but we also become less attractive to sponsors, to our current players and to potential recruits. It's painstakingly obvious really.

The real question is does the board rest satisfied with merely qualifying for the CL or push on - which is what our rivals are doing.

 

[Viral United]

Need to consider that teams are more likely to go out much earlier at CL than Europe. Also, players most likely are getting bonuses and/or wage increase with CL. And winning trophy is actually matter more than just being in CL as a goal.

All in all, the money difference may not be that big.

Even if you go out earlier in CL, the money difference will way bigger.
Not only better prize money, you get better TV money and also bigger gate receipt in CL.
So its much more profitable to be in CL then EL even though you go out much earlier in CL.

 

[Josep Dowling]

Guys, that's clearly stated in the OP and subsequent posts - no CL, 25% wage reduction. @Isotope CL money matters a hell of a lot - why else would you have managers sacked as soon as that objective is not met (I mean, both Moyes and LVG could have gone sooner). The difference in money - leaving the wages out of it, is somewhere between £50-80m. Now we save on wages if we don't qualify, but we also become less attractive to sponsors, to our current players and to potential recruits. It's painstakingly obvious really.

The real question is does the board rest satisfied with merely qualifying for the CL or push on - which is what our rivals are doing.

This is my issue. Everyone thinks Champions League football means Sancho will be signed. But he is the perfect target for the board. We walk away from player who’s value is over £100m, and they can blame COVID for being financially cautious.

The last few times we have made Champions League the next push to sign players stopped and I can see it happening again this season.

 

[Bastian]

This is my issue. Everyone thinks Champions League football means Sancho will be signed. But he is the perfect target for the board. We walk away from player who’s value is over £100m, and they can blame COVID for being financially cautious.

The last few times we have made Champions League the next push to sign players stopped and I can see it happening again this season.

I have the same concerns, to a different degree. I think we'll sign Sancho. But we need to be ruthless and cut our losses with loads of players and sign maybe 3-4 players this window.