Firmino or Martial...

andersj

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agreed. very strange comparison that the OP has made.
It is not that strange. Solskjaer has obviously tried using Martial the same way Klopp use Firmino. Just look at his comments about him.

I think Martial might be as talented as Firmino. But Firmino, for now, make better use of his talent. He is a really hard working fighter. Martial is close to the opposite.

Firmino was actually about the same age as Martial is now when he arrived at Liverpool. If Martial use the next few years well and build his physique he could become a world class striker. But I really doubt that he will.
 

Santoryo

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The grass is always greener. People go on about opposition players like they're gods.
Pretty much this. The way some in here talk about Firmino play one would think he's operating at Messi level in his general play. The biggest difference between the 2 is that one is playing a a winning and well functioning team while the other is in a team that has struggled this season and despite that Martial still has better numbers. Not to mentioned he's played less games too.
 

Santoryo

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The fact some people think comparing Martial to Firmino is ridiculous speaks of the volume the Brazilian is overrated. Then again I saw in Martial's thread someone claim that comparing him to Berbatov was an insult to the latter, so it might just be that Martial is underrated by your resident caf members, especially if agendas have already been set.
 

Rozay

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agreed. very strange comparison that the OP has made.
Neither are Alan Shearers or Harry Kanes. Both are strikers who like to drift and link play, and are known for aesthetically pleasing footwork. Apparently now Martial is some sort of Pippo Inzaghi!
 

Canagel

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Martial easily.

Firmino is more experienced at playing false 9 but the difference is not that big while Martial is the far better goalscorer and more skilful. I mean it's not even up for debate, the service to the front three is world class at Liverpool and mostly awful here for the whole season yet look who has the better output. I also agree that the media coverage would have you believe like he is some nobody and Firmino is in some different universe which is obviously far from the reality. Martial is always spoken of as one of the first people that need to be sold and replaced or always one game away from needing to prove himself worthy to stay . pathetic. its time he is recoginzed as one of the best players in Europe.
 
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Jim Beam

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I like Martial a lot and have a soft spot for him since he came into the club. Also, firmly believe he has another level in him which can elevate him even further. Saying that, Firmino is simply better which is no shame. For all the talk about Salah and Mane, for me, he is Liverpool's best-attacking player (certainly their most important one). In terms of false 9, best in the game atm.
 

Robbie Boy

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Nah, don't really rate Firmino whatsoever as an individual talent. Superb team player though and he's the perfect foil for Salah and Mane.
 

JJ12

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Martial in this current team.

Firminho if we had Rashford and Sancho.
 

Rozay

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I like Martial a lot and have a soft spot for him since he came into the club. Also, firmly believe he has another level in him which can elevate him even further. Saying that, Firmino is simply better which is no shame. For all the talk about Salah and Mane, for me, he is Liverpool's best-attacking player (certainly their most important one). In terms of false 9, best in the game atm.
Not a chance he’s even close to being either better or as important as Mané or Salah. Sometimes the obvious answer is the right one. Mané and Salah are both better than Firmino.
 

Jim Beam

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Not a chance he’s even close to being either better or as important as Mané or Salah. Sometimes the obvious answer is the right one. Mané and Salah are both better than Firmino.
I think it is easier to replace both Salah and Mane then what Firmino is doing. Which makes him more important in my eyes.

Know am in minority regarding this as people will always look at the stats and goals, so will leave it.
 

Rozay

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I think it is easier to replace both Salah and Mane then what Firmino is doing. Which makes him more important in my eyes.

Know am in minority regarding this as people will always look at the stats and goals, so will leave it.
It’s an opinion of course. But whatever it is that Firmino is doing is certainly easier to find than a wide player who will score you 30 goals.
 

MartinRed

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Martial is better footballer tnan Firmino it is obvious. Firmino flourish because he plays in a successful team. Martial's main problem is his selfishness as we have seen two times yesterday(and many times before). Two times when we could easily get two goals if he had passed the ball instead of shooting. If he and the coaches find a way to clean this flaw from his game we will get loads of goals.
 

noodlehair

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That’s not really a fair or accurate reflection though. When, like Firminho, Martial plays in the centre of a front 3 (which has been rare due to injury) - his link play is similarly top notch. Hence the ‘Martial is our most important attacker’ thread. He was knitting things together up top and linking with Rashford and James very well. People were referring to him as a ‘false 9’. Due to Rashford’s injury, we could barely rub two other decent attackers together, and he has been played in a 2 more often.
I think it's entirely fair. Ability wise there is no problem with Martial, but I find him an extremely frustrating player because positionally he is both selfish and not very smart. It's not necessarily a problem having a selfish attacking player if they know how to channel that into scoring more goals, but with Martial it seems to be the opposite. When he is in the middle he is a constant goal threat, yet he insists on having games where he just prats around on the left wing, not even getting into the box when he clearly has time to do so.

He isn't our most important attacking player for me. Rashford very clearly was before his injury and Fernandes clearly has been since he signed. Martial is someone I like but for me is still looking to fulfil his potential. Without Fernandes and in the absence of Rashford we would still be struggling to win a game imo.

I don't see him as a Firminho type player at all. Martial's link up play can be very good, but he plays with a selfish streak, and if he just channelled that into doing what he needs to in order to score more, I think he could easily get 25 goals a year. Similar to what Rashford would have been on his way to prior to his injury.

If he gets to 20 this year I'd still be fairly happy as it's his first season playing solely as an out and out striker, and he did also miss a good 2 months with injury.
 

SweetRightFoot

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Really different players with different skill sets. Kind of a weird comparison.
 

marktan

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Firmino every day of the week.

Martial had a good game yesterday but is still very patchy.

Firmino's all round game is a level higher than Martials.
 

Rozay

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I think it's entirely fair. Ability wise there is no problem with Martial, but I find him an extremely frustrating player because positionally he is both selfish and not very smart. It's not necessarily a problem having a selfish attacking player if they know how to channel that into scoring more goals, but with Martial it seems to be the opposite. When he is in the middle he is a constant goal threat, yet he insists on having games where he just prats around on the left wing, not even getting into the box when he clearly has time to do so.

He isn't our most important attacking player for me. Rashford very clearly was before his injury and Fernandes clearly has been since he signed. Martial is someone I like but for me is still looking to fulfil his potential. Without Fernandes and in the absence of Rashford we would still be struggling to win a game imo.

I don't see him as a Firminho type player at all. Martial's link up play can be very good, but he plays with a selfish streak, and if he just channelled that into doing what he needs to in order to score more, I think he could easily get 25 goals a year. Similar to what Rashford would have been on his way to prior to his injury.

If he gets to 20 this year I'd still be fairly happy as it's his first season playing solely as an out and out striker, and he did also miss a good 2 months with injury.
You mention Rashford a lot, who is a brilliant player of course. He’s still half as brilliant without Martial alongside him. We also struggled when Martial was injured and Rashford was surrounded by rubbish in attack. When Martial returned, he visibly lifted his game by lining our attack together. He was playing a false 9 sort of role, and notable games include Brighton at home, Sheffield United away and City away. He was basically doing the Firmino stuff.

Aside from that, I won’t argue that there is certainly room for improvement there. I do think though that having the right teammates around him is a large part of creating the conditions for him to improve, and I think he looks better with Rashford up there with him.
 

Rozay

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Firmino every day of the week.

Martial had a good game yesterday but is still very patchy.

Firmino's all round game is a level higher than Martials.
Any suggestion Firmino is not ‘patchy’ is a large part of my motivation for this thread. Feck knows when the last time he scored a goal was. The ‘other things’ everyone says he does, if you look closely, he isn’t really doing them as often as people think. Hence Liverpool always finding themselves dragged into tough games that Mané or Salah have to step up and win in the 88th minute for them on their own.
 

Santoryo

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Any suggestion Firmino is not ‘patchy’ is a large part of my motivation for this thread. Feck knows when the last time he scored a goal was. The ‘other things’ everyone says he does, if you look closely, he isn’t really doing them as often as people think. Hence Liverpool always finding themselves dragged into tough games that Mané or Salah have to step up and win in the 88th minute for them on their own.
Half of these people who make these grand claims about Firmino probably don't even watch regularly and one can simply tell by how they perceive him through highlight reels and media telling them how important he is to Liverpool.

They've most likely never actually sat through Liverpool games to see how not consistent he is in doing these so great things they keep bringing up.
 

kafta

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When you have wide forwards that can score 25-30 goals, you need a special type of striker who can play them in and drag defenders out of position.

Firimino does that job exceptionally. I think he is the most essential part of liverpool's front 3.

Him and Martial are very different, but for Liverpool's system, of course Firmino is better.

If Tony improves his decision making, he can become a better more clinical version.
 

Rozay

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When you have wide forwards that can score 25-30 goals, you need a special type of striker who can play them in and drag defenders out of position.

Firimino does that job exceptionally. I think he is the most essential part of liverpool's front 3.

Him and Martial are very different, but for Liverpool's system, of course Firmino is better.

If Tony improves his decision making, he can become a better more clinical version.
You would think he was Dennis Bergkamp.
 

KennyBurner

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agreed. very strange comparison that the OP has made.
It’s not strange at all. Firmino hides behind klopps system. How can your CF go close to a year without scoring a goal at home? He still hasn’t scored at home by the way. He is approaching lingard territory. Martial is the better CF for me. If not because we had an incomplete team for so long we would appreciate how quality Martial is to the team and as a player.
 

Fridge chutney

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Martial is a precocious talent and can do things with the ball that most professionals cannot do. He hasn't yet found an equilibrium at United, but this is partially because United has not yet found consistency or stabilituly in squad, management and tactics to facilitate a productive equilibrium of growth for Martial (and others, arguably).

Firmino is an effective and important part of the best attacking engine in the world right now - part of a cohesive unit at their prime.

As such, it's difficult to compare the two players. I wouldn't swap them, but that's no slight on Firmino. I think both players are well-suited to their respective circumstances, with Martial a very high ceiling not yet attained (at current club).
 

Yagami

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I've liked Firmino since he was at Hoffenheim, and think he's brilliant, but I prefer Martial.
 

kafta

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You would think he was Dennis Bergkamp.
Well I didn’t go that far. I really rate him though. Think he’s an essential part of a really good team with an exceptional attacking line.
 

cyril C

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bad comparison because they play a slightly different role. Firmino is better at hold up the ball during attack, so I would say he is a slimmer version of Lukaku. His goal tele is not great but no-one is complaining. Martial is never a fox in the box in fact he was hardly there when someone cross the ball inside, but he can dribble, score or create chances for others.
 

Renegade

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Firmino has the 3rd highest amount of shots in the league and is 1st for big chances missed. 8 league goals playing in that Liverpool team this season whilst almost going a whole year without scoring at home while playing as a 9.
criminally overrated because he does a fancy assist/skill every now and then.

Just the other day Redknapp was saying he is the complete #9. Class player but made to look better playing in a successful team in a tailored system with 2 goalscoring wide forward’s beside him.
Not saying his not a very good player by the way.
 

Santoryo

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bad comparison because they play a slightly different role. Firmino is better at hold up the ball during attack, so I would say he is a slimmer version of Lukaku. His goal tele is not great but no-one is complaining. Martial is never a fox in the box in fact he was hardly there when someone cross the ball inside, but he can dribble, score or create chances for others.
I don't see how Lukaku and Firmino are similar at all.
 

Renegade

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Firminho is hugely overated due to being in a succesful team, but they aren't really similar players.

Firminho is a team player. He isn't in goal scoring positions but he will drop deep or move into areas that create space for the other forwards. It's selfless play. Not really the same as Martial spending 90% of a game lingering on the left wing instead of helping the team, because he wants to cut inside and shoot.

I think Martial has done well this season for the most part but he still seems to be learning how to play as a centre forward.
Don’t fall for the media narrative. He is number 1 for big chances missed in the whole league and has had 87 shots at goal this season,scoring 8. 3rd highest amount of shots in the league behind Raul & Salah.
 

TwoSheds

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Firmino's average. You can't call yourself a top striker with finishing as bad as his even if the rest of his game is decent.
 

roonster09

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Don’t fall for the media narrative. He is number 1 for big chances missed in the whole league and has had 87 shots at goal this season,scoring 8. 3rd highest amount of shots in the league behind Raul & Salah.
Yeah, his expected goals is 15, second highest in the league just behind Salah and he has scored just 8 goals.
 

fps

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I feel Martial is already learning from Ighalo in training, his form is getting better and as a young player he really hasn’t had quality strikers around to learn from not enough time in the middle. I’m now hopeful he will come good since he has Bruno behind a relationship with Rashford and a true centre forward to bounce off and learn off in training. Ole is the first one to give him what he needs to become the player he could be.
 

kouroux

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I feel Martial is already learning from Ighalo in training, his form is getting better and as a young player he really hasn’t had quality strikers around to learn from not enough time in the middle. I’m now hopeful he will come good since he has Bruno behind a relationship with Rashford and a true centre forward to bounce off and learn off in training. Ole is the first one to give him what he needs to become the player he could be.
Ibra ? Big Rom :wenger: ? I think his improvement has nothing to do with Ighalo but he's simply maturing into a position he wasn't natural to start with
 

OrcaFat

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Martial in this current team.

Firminho if we had Rashford and Sancho.
Yes, pretty much. If we did have Sancho and Rashford then it’s possible Tony adapts and gets better as a team player complimenting the attack. Pressure is on him just to keep scoring now.
 

fps

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Ibra ? Big Rom :wenger: ? I think his improvement has nothing to do with Ighalo but he's simply maturing into a position he wasn't natural to start with
Yes to Ibra, no to Lukaku I don’t see much there that fits what Martial is about and don’t think he had much of the character you need to be a good colleague from the sounds of it.
 

roonster09

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Firmino has the 3rd highest amount of shots in the league and is 1st for big chances missed. 8 league goals playing in that Liverpool team this season whilst almost going a whole year without scoring at home while playing as a 9.
criminally overrated because he does a fancy assist/skill every now and then.

Just the other day Redknapp was saying he is the complete #9. Class player but made to look better playing in a successful team in a tailored system with 2 goalscoring wide forward’s beside him.
Not saying his not a very good player by the way.
Good post, I was also under the same impression that he plays very deep, that's why his poor goal return. Just checked, he has 3rd highest amount of shots, 3rd highest shots from penalty area, only Salah has better xG (very minimal) and Firmino also leads in big chances misses.

In short, his conversion is awful, which is masked with 'False 9' nonsense.