Firmino or Martial...

kouroux

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Yes to Ibra, no to Lukaku I don’t see much there that fits what Martial is about and don’t think he had much of the character you need to be a good colleague from the sounds of it.
The beautiful stepovers of course, or how not to do them ;) Martial could have learned a lot by watching Rom by focusing on the opposite
 

Rozay

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So I asked this question just before lockdown, and the responses were very mixed. Now that the season has ended (sort of), I thought I’d check what the current views are.
 

jem

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So I asked this question just before lockdown, and the responses were very mixed. Now that the season has ended (sort of), I thought I’d check what the current views are.
I'm not sure I'd take any striker over Martial at the moment.

And if/when Real or Barca come in for him, I hope we channel our inner-Dortmund and don't sell unless an absolute premium price (that we set) is met.
 

SAFMUTD

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They're different players, Firminho seems to me as a Benzema type more a creative player rather than a killer. He wont get 20 goals per season but his help in the overall play of the team is really valuable. While Martial is techinical and have that dribbler instinct but additionaly has showned he can play with his back against the box more of a "pure" 9 striker.

I think depending on the system of the team each player would be over the other one, but to be fair I dont think Firminho would start over Martial in any top team rather than in Kloop's system at Liverpool. For Firminho to be allowed to score less than 10 goals per season as a striker he needs winger that provide the goals, if you take Mane or Salah that number wouldnt be acceptable at all.
 

AltiUn

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No one gets praised for two yard passes, simple runs and missing easy chances quite like Bobby Firmino.
 

DWelbz19

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They're different players, Firminho seems to me as a Benzema type more a creative player rather than a killer. He wont get 20 goals per season but his help in the overall play of the team is really valuable. While Martial is techinical and have that dribbler instinct but additionaly has showned he can play with his back against the box more of a "pure" 9 striker.

I think depending on the system of the team each player would be over the other one, but to be fair I dont think Firminho would start over Martial in any top team rather than in Kloop's system at Liverpool. For Firminho to be allowed to score less than 10 goals per season as a striker he needs winger that provide the goals, if you take Mane or Salah that number wouldnt be acceptable at all.
It’s not like Firmino isn’t allowed to score — he’s just not very good at doing it. He had the fourth most shots this season and only scored nine goals. He’s also the fourth most effective player in his side for assists, so it’s not like his creativity is compensating for his lack of goals.
 

adexkola

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Martial had a better season than Firmino.

But Firmino is a proven quality player, I'd like to see how Martial plays next season before definitely proclaiming he's better than Firmino.
 

Revan

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At this stage Martial. Would have been Firminho (and easily at that) this time last year.

Martial has had a fantastic season.
 

SAFMUTD

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It’s not like Firmino isn’t allowed to score — he’s just not very good at doing it. He had the fourth most shots this season and only scored nine goals. He’s also the fourth most effective player in his side for assists, so it’s not like his creativity is compensating for his lack of goals.
Totally agree, I dont think Firminho's lack of goal is due to that system I think its simply because he's not good a it. But he offers other complementing things that are really valuable to a system like that. For example I dont think Liverpool's system would work as well with Aguero instead of Firminho.

Thats why I think Firminho shines under this really specific system, as I said his poor numbers would hardly be tolerated anywhere else.
 

Sandikan

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If you have Salah and Mane either side, you can get away with Firmino.

If he played in our side, i think he'd be fairly dreadful.

But in terms of this season it's an utterly no brainer. Martial coming off by far his best season, even missing 6 weeks or so, versus Firmino who barely scored at home all season.

These type threads often don't age well though.
I'm sure there was a Martial v Abraham one at one stage, and who could forget the Shaw v Danny Rose one, where about 95% of people were adamant we should go for Rose (me included to be honest)
 

Harry Harries

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would anyone swap Martial for Firmino?

I certainly wouldn't
I doubt many United fans would, given how we play. Would Liverpool fans swap Firmino with Martial? Be interested to hear.
 

Dr Fink

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They are two completely different types. Firmino isn't a goal scoring striker, he links up the Dippers’ play. Martial does a little of this but more so dribbles and can finish. Martial suits our play better.
 

paraguayo

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It's a bit opportunistic to compare them now. Martial has been amazing post lock down but lets not project these few past weeks like they are 2-3 years
 

CM10

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Is there any other striker in the world at a top club who would get given the benefit of the doubt Firmino does for not scoring because 'he works hard'?

He has been gash this season, he's just fortunate to play in a side with two of the best goalscoring wide players in the game. Martial all day.
 

Bubz27

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I know Liverpool fans love Firmino but they must see he can be upgraded in that team without causing detriment to the whole. Benzema for Real got the best out Ronaldo and Bale but was still productive himself.

It isn't easy, and I get the whole if it ain't broke feeling, but he can be upgraded. I actually think Martial would do really well in that front 3, he had very good link up play.
 

el3mel

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This comparison has no point. Neither us nor them will like to swap players, period.

Martial has been great for us this year, as for Firmino, he suits their attacking players perfectly.
 

gajender

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I'm not sure I'd take any striker over Martial at the moment.

And if/when Real or Barca come in for him, I hope we channel our inner-Dortmund and don't sell unless an absolute premium price (that we set) is met.
This nonsense never gets old .
 

Mihai

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MARTIAL IS A BETTER PLAYER AND BETTER PERSONALITY

EXCEPT
NAT LEVEL
NATIN LEVEL
NATIONAL LEVEL
 

Cheimoon

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In Liverpool's setup, shouldn't Martial rather be compared with Mané or Salah? Those probably play different roles from Martial at United, but if Liverpool bought Martial this summer (no, there are no rumours; stop it!), wouldn't they use him to rotate with those two, rather than with Firmino?
 

stevoc

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I wouldn't swap Martial for Firmino personally. Firmino isn't the most prolific striker but he's a very good player and vital to Liverpools long ball tactics.
 

stevoc

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What nonsense is that exactly?
United are not powerless and or in danger of losing players to Real or Barca. Both those clubs combined have managed to sign one player from United in the last 30 years that United didn't want to sell. And even then that only happened because the player kicked up a massive stink for over a year and they almost doubled the current world record transfer fee and paid it all up front in cash.
 

afrocentricity

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I'm not sure I'd take any striker over Martial at the moment.

And if/when Real or Barca come in for him, I hope we channel our inner-Dortmund and don't sell unless an absolute premium price (that we set) is met.
Why did you have to plant that seed in my mind?
 

hasanejaz88

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Talent wise Martial but in terms of quality right now can't be above Firmino.

Firmino has been performing at a great level for 3 seasons now while Martial has struggled throughout his time at Manchester for consistency.

Right now I would rather have Firmino, you know what you're getting and it's an all round performance that let's you have flexibility in your team. Martial has the potential to be better but right now you aren't even sure where you play him because he hasn't shown consistently great performances at LW or ST.
Said this at the time, happy to see Martial living up to his potential. Firmino has had a drop off in performances, let see how both fair out next season.
 

gajender

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United are not powerless and or in danger of losing players to Real or Barca. Both those clubs combined have managed to sign one player from United in the last 30 years that United didn't want to sell. And even then that only happened because the player kicked up a massive stink for over a year and they almost doubled the current world record transfer fee and paid it all up front in cash.
Thank you for putting it eloquently and about the bolded part I would like to add few more things at that time we were in the period of financial uncertainty and weren't ready to pay biggest wages and maybe needed the Ronaldo transfer fees which was all cash to ride that over .Now we are more than willing to splash the cash whether in wages or fees and once we are back to challenging for top honours I don't think we risk losing our players to anybody .
 

jem

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United are not powerless and or in danger of losing players to Real or Barca. Both those clubs combined have managed to sign one player from United in the last 30 years that United didn't want to sell. And even then that only happened because the player kicked up a massive stink for over a year and they almost doubled the current world record transfer fee and paid it all up front in cash.
Regardless, if they came calling (and you'll notice I included 'if' in my original post) and the player wanted out (much like Pogba and De Gea have over the years,) I'd expect us to hold firm to our valuation. That's why I have no problem with Dortmund doing so with Sancho.
 

jem

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I'd also argue that outside of Pogba and De Gea (both of whom Real have made noises about signing,) we haven't really had the caliber of players in recent years that would attract the attention of clubs like Real and Barca. When a player performs to the highest levels, a team like Real usually comes calling (see Hazard last year.)
 

stevoc

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Regardless, if they came calling (and you'll notice I included 'if' in my original post) and the player wanted out (much like Pogba and De Gea have over the years,) I'd expect us to hold firm to our valuation. That's why I have no problem with Dortmund doing so with Sancho.
Obviously the club would but the point is they would only be buying a player if United want to sell. DeGea and Pogba both wanted out to join Real and yet they're both still here.
 

Jibbs

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They both can play together better than Martial and Rashford.
 

jem

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Obviously the club would but the point is they would only be buying a player if United want to sell. DeGea and Pogba both wanted out to join Real and yet they're both still here.
Yeah but De Gea's staying was a bit more complicated (or farcical if you prefer) than our simply holding firm. I also think the pandemic (cynical as it sounds) did us a bit of a favour with regard to Pogba (that and a certain Bruno Fernandes.)
 

stevoc

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Yeah but De Gea's staying was a bit more complicated (or farcical if you prefer) than our simply holding firm. I also think the pandemic (cynical as it sounds) did us a bit of a favour with regard to Pogba (that and a certain Bruno Fernandes.)
I personally don't believe DeGea is still at United because of a Fax machine malfunctioning, do you? If he was so set on going it could have been done a few months later in the January window.

I reckon Pogba will stay because of a combination of the fact no club in Spain or Italy can really afford him. And he's genuinely happier now that Joe is gone and the team seems to be going in the right direction.

And i'll have to leave it there as i've just realized we're way off topic.
 

jem

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I personally don't believe DeGea is still at United because of a Fax machine malfunctioning, do you? If he was so set on going it could have been done a few months later in the January window.

I reckon Pogba will stay because of a combination of the fact no club in Spain or Italy can really afford him. And he's genuinely happier now that Joe is gone and the team seems to be going in the right direction.

And i'll have to leave it there as i've just realized we're way off topic.
Yeah sorry for the derailment. I am curious to hear what you think happened with the De Gea non-transfer, but maybe we can take that up in the De Gea thread at a later time.