Fitness

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Ole has mentioned this more than once recently and his post match press conference was littered with complaints about poor fitness and not being able to sustain energy required to match the opposition.

So what has gone wrong here? Did the players turn up out of shape for the last preseason or did Jose not emphasise it enough?

I know we were abysmal and bottom of the league in sprints and distance covered before Ole came and while we got a bounce of freshness with the new manager, now it again seems like its caught up with us.

 

[noodlehair]

Well you definitely don't get fitter by carrying on not trying as hard as everyone else, so if it is the problem our solution to it is equally as alarming.

Words are boring now. Mourinho was usually right when he would talk about this team, but he did nothing about it except moan. There's no point moaning about fitness and work rate if the team is going to be allowed to put in lethargic displays week after week regardless.

 

[kouroux]

I thought Mourinho's team was full of hardworkers and runners, what the hell has he been doing to our squad ?

 

[The Nani]

Well you definitely don't get fitter by carrying on not trying as hard as everyone else, so if it is the problem our solution to it is equally as alarming.

Words are boring now. Mourinho was usually right when he would talk about this team, but he did nothing about it except moan. There's no point moaning about fitness and work rate if the team is going to be allowed to put in lethargic displays week after week regardless.

Youth tends to help. Running Lukaku and Matic out consistently certainly won’t.

 

[youmeletsfly]

I thought Mourinho's team was full of hardworkers and runners, what the hell has he been doing to our squad ?

We were sitting back and trying to hit on counter with Jose. Players got used to less movement.

 

[macheda14]

I remember reading reports that player fitness conditioning sessions decreased dramatically under Jose. He also set up his teams so that they didn’t run as much, it wasn’t just a lack of commitment, but he doesn’t have his teams press so aggressively.

I do think the issues now are a mixture of players lacking commitment as well as just not having the fitness. We went from the team that worked the least to almost one of the hardest working teams all the way up to PSG. There was bound to be burnout

 

[DownRiver]

If Ole was more pragmatic and a bit clever, he would drop his team to two banks of four and then counter-attack. Since the team can't press high, just allow the team to hop over the line for top 4 using our pace. Then, in pre-season he will implement his training regimen. Seems that Ole is influenced by what people think rather than what is good for the team, this is where Jose is ahead in that respect.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

If the fitness is so bad maybe he should have pushed the players to work on fitness during the season? ´If players can't do the job then drop them and make them do the work on the training pitch.

Mctominay has also looked good in this regard yet he has also been benched a lot efter after good performances. Before the injury Herrera could run and do the work. Fred has barely played so he should have had time to work on his fitness.
Shaw has looked good and so I don't think he will improve much.

I hope he can use a pre season to get Lukaku,Mata,Matic,Young and Sanchez into great shape so they can run like crazy, but I doubt it they are just not very mobile these days. I think the problem with Martial and Pogba is more the lack of effort rather than not being able to make the runs due to fitness. Lingard can still run around a lot so not sure there is a problem with him that is going to turn him into a world beater. I think Rashford could probably get into better shape so I hope to see improvement in him.


I guess what we can do is get in a quality right back that can run a lot. Should improve things over Young. Buy one hard working quality midfielder that can improve our pressing in midfield and give us more options for rotation. Then get one right winger with mobility and quality and then hope we can get Pogba fired up and our attackers working harder and better.

 

[Acole9]

Wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the fitness issues are to do with that clown the club appointed in the summer who left when Mourinho got sacked. He was the one who I believe was responsible for Lukaku looking like a wrestler rather than a footballer.

 

[charlenefan]

Can someone explain to me why pre-season will sort this fitness issue? I mean surely fitness is something you can work on at any time and not have to wait till pre-season?

 

[VeevaVee]

It's an absolute disgrace that fitness wasn't monitored at the club. This angers me more than a lot of stuff about us.

 

[LInkash]

Can someone explain to me why pre-season will sort this fitness issue? I mean surely fitness is something you can work on at any time and not have to wait till pre-season?

Our schedule has been very gruelling, we can't really get hardcore fitness work in during that time.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Can someone explain to me why pre-season will sort this fitness issue? I mean surely fitness is something you can work on at any time and not have to wait till pre-season?

I guess it is easier to do full fitness work during the pre season with not so many games. Right now the players need to recover and get ready for the next game. Although when players are out with injuries they should be able to work on the fitness so that is a poor excuse given how many injuries we have had.

 

[SteveW]

Can someone explain to me why pre-season will sort this fitness issue? I mean surely fitness is something you can work on at any time and not have to wait till pre-season?

You think they can do intense fitness work while also playing every 3/4 days in the business end of the season and not be at a huge disadvantage?? At this stage players are being managed to get them through to the summer.

Ole tried to remedy it in Dubai but you cant sort something like that out in a few days. The moment you could see them basically hit the wall was the game against Womves when several players got muscular injuries. They havent been the same since.

You wont see the benefits of Solskjaers approach to it until next season. At the moment the look absolutely shattered imo.

 

[ti vu]

I remember reading reports that player fitness conditioning sessions decreased dramatically under Jose. He also set up his teams so that they didn’t run as much, it wasn’t just a lack of commitment, but he doesn’t have his teams press so aggressively.

I do think the issues now are a mixture of players lacking commitment as well as just not having the fitness. We went from the team that worked the least to almost one of the hardest working teams all the way up to PSG. There was bound to be burnout

This is very off mark. We had supposed same fitness issue under LVG, and we were also lackluster then. And LVG was known for intense double session training regime this injury plague throughout LVG tenure. Mourinho other teams don't have this fitness issue.

Perhaps, we just have wrong kind of players. Sturbridge fitness doesn't improve under Klopp. Rashford had injuries here and there but his workrate is never the problem. I doubt OGS is including Rashford in this

Wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the fitness issues are to do with that clown the club appointed in the summer who left when Mourinho got sacked. He was the one who I believe was responsible for Lukaku looking like a wrestler rather than a footballer.

Uh, no. It was said to be issue from yester season.

 

[11101]

Can someone explain to me why pre-season will sort this fitness issue? I mean surely fitness is something you can work on at any time and not have to wait till pre-season?

You have to start with a base of endurance that can only be done with a progressive overload of mileage and no worrying about recovery. During the season you can only focus on football specific fitness and recovery.

It's kind of like the endurance work determines how big the tank is and sports specific stuff determines how powerful the engine is.

 

[SteveW]

The idea that they simply decided to stop trying 3 weeks ago after getting themselves into the CL semi final and top 4 reckoning is fecking mental.

Why would they just stop trying?? Do people think they want the pay cut for not making the CL? Or that they just got bored of winning games?

How come they all started picking up muscular injuries around the same time? How come half of our squad pulled out of their countries euro qualification games? How come the manager said from the very start they weren't anywhere near fit enough and tried to improve it in Dubai?

They got outran by 8km today in a vital game by an Everton team who had no midweek game after playing a Barca team who had a weekend off, after playing a West Hame team who had no midweek game and playing a Barca team who'd rested several players. They've been playing fresher teams for 3 weeks.

The whole team looks tired. Their touch, sharpness, passing etc is gone to shit because of it.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

The idea that they simply decided to stop trying 3 weeks ago after getting themselves into the CL semi final and top 4 reckoning is fecking mental.

Why would they just stop trying?? Do people think they want the pay cut for not making the CL? Or that they just got bored of winning games?

How come they all started picking up muscular injuries around the same time? How come half of our squad pulled out of their countries euro qualification games? How come the manager said from the very start they weren't anywhere near fit enough and tried to improve it in Dubai?

They got outran by 8km today in a vital game by an Everton team who had no midweek game after playing a Barca team who had a weekend off, after playing a West Hame team who had no midweek game and playing a Barca team who'd rested several players. They've been playing fresher teams for 3 weeks.

The whole team looks tired. Their touch, sharpness, passing etc is gone to shit because of it.

Exactly.

 

[FootyGirl88]

Ole needs to take them to Bolivia or somewhere with a high altitude for pre-season. Their fitness levels are shocking for professional footballers.

 

[ti vu]

The idea that they simply decided to stop trying 3 weeks ago after getting themselves into the CL semi final and top 4 reckoning is fecking mental.

Why would they just stop trying?? Do people think they want the pay cut for not making the CL? Or that they just got bored of winning games?

How come they all started picking up muscular injuries around the same time? How come half of our squad pulled out of their countries euro qualification games? How come the manager said from the very start they weren't anywhere near fit enough and tried to improve it in Dubai?

They got outran by 8km today in a vital game by an Everton team who had no midweek game after playing a Barca team who had a weekend off, after playing a West Hame team who had no midweek game and playing a Barca team who'd rested several players. They've been playing fresher teams for 3 weeks.

The whole team looks tired. Their touch, sharpness, passing etc is gone to shit because of it.

There were rotations. And some of those with worse workrate didn't feature as much as others. Rashford form may decline, but workrate doesn't, and he is about the one with most minutes during all this time. Barcelona for instances is playing football non stop.

This team played showed dire desire in important games under different manager before. I am taking about game season under LVG.

Time will give us the answer. My opinion we're back here having same discussion down the road.

 

[giorno]

I thought Mourinho's team was full of hardworkers and runners, what the hell has he been doing to our squad ?

Post world cup, manager moaning to the press every chance he gets, lots of uncertainty and negativity around the club...no surprised if summer training camp was bad

 

[SteveW]

Barca rested every outfield player the weekend before our game

 

[Rocksy]

What experience has Solksjaer got of getting a top level team to the peak of fitness? Klopp, Poch and Pep have made it central to their coaching season after season and it’s evident in every game. I can’t see how Solksjaer is going to do that...

 

[Ashley R1+O]

It must be really grating to watch this team for guys who watched the absolute pinnacle between 1995 and 2013. We didn't even have some of the most recognized players in the world, what we had was a top notch mentality and the knowledge that if you wanted a fight. We'd give you a fecking fight.

Watching this team at the moment must really be a chore for some who lived through that peak period. I know it does for me.

 

[liamp]

The idea that they simply decided to stop trying 3 weeks ago after getting themselves into the CL semi final and top 4 reckoning is fecking mental.

Why would they just stop trying?? Do people think they want the pay cut for not making the CL? Or that they just got bored of winning games?

How come they all started picking up muscular injuries around the same time? How come half of our squad pulled out of their countries euro qualification games? How come the manager said from the very start they weren't anywhere near fit enough and tried to improve it in Dubai?

They got outran by 8km today in a vital game by an Everton team who had no midweek game after playing a Barca team who had a weekend off, after playing a West Hame team who had no midweek game and playing a Barca team who'd rested several players. They've been playing fresher teams for 3 weeks.

The whole team looks tired. Their touch, sharpness, passing etc is gone to shit because of it.

Yup. Wonder how much this has to do with our strength & conditioning coaches and our medical team too. Have no idea how related any of this stuff is, but it's worth mentioning the head of strength and conditioning left the club a few weeks ago to join FC Cincinnati of MLS.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Irwin99]

What were the running stats in Jose's first two years? I imagine we would have been near the bottom of the league for sprints.

 

[kouroux]

Post world cup, manager moaning to the press every chance he gets, lots of uncertainty and negativity around the club...no surprised if summer training camp was bad

It has little to do with you what described as our running stats have been terrible since Jose's first season.

 

[mariachi-19]

If the fitness is so bad maybe he should have pushed the players to work on fitness during the season? ´If players can't do the job then drop them and make them do the work on the training pitch.

Mctominay has also looked good in this regard yet he has also been benched a lot efter after good performances. Before the injury Herrera could run and do the work. Fred has barely played so he should have had time to work on his fitness.
a

you can’t just fecking turn fitness on. This is something that is seemingly lost on half of you.

We’ve been playing virtually twice a week since Christmas. We tried to play high attacking press football and the players started dropping like flies because their underlying fitness levels were atrocious thanks to mourinho.

You cannot (and this needs to be fecking stressed) gain fitness in the middle of a season and expect results not to be affected. That’s why this shit is sorted in pre-season. Unfortunate our precious manager was too busy pulling his own dick.

 

[mariachi-19]

There were rotations. And some of those with worse workrate didn't feature as much as others. Rashford form may decline, but workrate doesn't, and he is about the one with most minutes during all this time. Barcelona for instances is playing football non stop.

This team played showed dire desire in important games under different manager before. I am taking about game season under LVG.

Time will give us the answer. My opinion we're back here having same discussion down the road.

Of course work rate declines when players are fecked.

 

[BigBebe]

Does anyone know where i can find the stats on distance covered during a game?

 

[Hughie77]

Its a issue no legs , when team was out yesterday, I said buggered In midfield no legs in there , Pogba won't run around, Fred is same get about but not quick enough in getting there, Matic same, to slow. Or not fit enough.

Fitness is a must, running stats are low, they did improve for about 10 -11 games, then we started picking up injuries, because they were not fit enough at start of seasons.
Big issue needs sorting out big time. I bet the top of the tree in running stats, are pool, city, spurs.

 

[Dan]

Found this from March.

In terms of distance covered, United are third from bottom.

https://www.skysports.com/football/...nning-stats-liverpool-are-king-of-the-sprints

 

[Robbo's Shoulder]

What experience has Solksjaer got of getting a top level team to the peak of fitness? Klopp, Poch and Pep have made it central to their coaching season after season and it’s evident in every game. I can’t see how Solksjaer is going to do that...

That will be delegated to the fitness/conditional coaches I presume not Ole himself, although he will obviously have input. I would imagine he would tell the coaches what he wants and it's their job to have the players in the condition he expects.
I can see a very tough pre-season coming up and it's time the players stand up and show the desire and mentality required at a top football club, I can see more than a few falling by the wayside and moving on.

 

[FootyGirl88]

Found this from March.

In terms of distance covered, United are third from bottom.

https://www.skysports.com/football/...nning-stats-liverpool-are-king-of-the-sprints

What a disgrace, like I said yesterday Ole needs to take them training somewhere with a high altitude.

 

[JJ12]

What experience has Solksjaer got of getting a top level team to the peak of fitness? Klopp, Poch and Pep have made it central to their coaching season after season and it’s evident in every game. I can’t see how Solksjaer is going to do that...

Based on what? Why can't he?

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

you can’t just fecking turn fitness on. This is something that is seemingly lost on half of you.

We’ve been playing virtually twice a week since Christmas. We tried to play high attacking press football and the players started dropping like flies because their underlying fitness levels were atrocious thanks to mourinho.

You cannot (and this needs to be fecking stressed) gain fitness in the middle of a season and expect results not to be affected. That’s why this shit is sorted in pre-season. Unfortunate our precious manager was too busy pulling his own dick.

Who are these players dropping like flies? Pogba has played pretty much all games and if there is problem with his fitness then you should sub him off in games and give him a rest. Same with old Matic and Young really.
Mctominay and Pereira look like they can run and play yet Matic has started most games ahead of them.

You could work with fitness with players even during the season. Not with all of them, but with individuals.

 

[K13]

Ole has mentioned this more than once recently and his post match press conference was littered with complaints about poor fitness and not being able to sustain energy required to match the opposition.

So what has gone wrong here? Did the players turn up out of shape for the last preseason or did Jose not emphasise it enough?

I know we were abysmal and bottom of the league in sprints and distance covered before Ole came and while we got a bounce of freshness with the new manager, now it again seems like its caught up with us.

I am very much with you on this point because even if you have pace the ability to use it time and time again comes down to conditioning. I think it has been our biggest problem and wonder whether Jose was distracted or took his eye off the ball in the summer. Lots of running does not guarantee success but the number of sprints does indicate the better conditioned players because sprints are the most physically demanding and require a mix of all energy systems. I think I heard somewhere that Jose did not use the mountain of data/systems that had been set up to monitor fitness. That could just be a rumour though.

Our semi finalist world cup players came back early and apparently did not need as much pre-season as it was a mere 3 weeks since their last competitive game. Pogba I seem to remember took his full allotted holiday time and with hindsight maybe that was the right thing to do as Lukaku, Rashford and Lingard have all had significant muscular niggles recently. The same with our neighbours when De Bruyne came back before Sterling so perhaps encouraging players to take their allotted rest is something to consider for future tournaments as well.

 

[JPRouve]

Who are these players dropping like flies? Pogba has played pretty much all games and if there is problem with his fitness then you should sub him off in games and give him a rest. Same with old Matic and Young really.
Mctominay and Pereira look like they can run and play yet Matic has started most games ahead of them.

You could work with fitness with players even during the season. Not with all of them, but with individuals.

It's actually near impossible to do, it's the type of things that you schedule during the entire season with targeted peaks and phases. As for who the players are Matic, Herrera, Lingard, Martial and Rashford missed around a month between February and the end of March.

Also funnily enough, Scholes anticipated it in December and unfortunately Ole played the exact same 11 players for a long period of time.

 

[K13]

Who are these players dropping like flies? Pogba has played pretty much all games and if there is problem with his fitness then you should sub him off in games and give him a rest. Same with old Matic and Young really.
Mctominay and Pereira look like they can run and play yet Matic has started most games ahead of them.

You could work with fitness with players even during the season. Not with all of them, but with individuals.

Yes you are right you can work with players during the season but only if they are not playing games or in the match squad. If you are injured/ill for a week then it takes a week to get you back to the same level of fitness.

The main conditioning is done in the summer and then maintained during the season because you can not play games and train to that intense level without a massive fall off in performance. When you are ill/injured for a period of time ideally you need the same amount of time to recover.

Fitness is not just what you do in an intense session it is the 24-36 hours recovery post that session when the muscles knit together that make you stronger. So much of the season is a cycle of play, recover, a small amount of intense work when time permits, recover, prepare / walk through for the game. When you play twice a week then it is all about recovery.

 

[Bestietom]

If it is fitness then it is up to the trainers to bring these players in for more training. Some players may need more than others but if they are dedicated they need to up their training themselves. In the seventies there was only 1 substitute used, and you had to play out the whole ninety minutes even with an injury.