FIVEUK: Donny Van de Beek interview

Bobski

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He hasn't had a huge amount of chances, however the pattern of his performances in those chances is the concern. He makes very little impact, it is not that he is giving the ball away constantly, making a lot of mistakes, more that he is just not doing much of anything, tidy anonymity on the ball, next to nothing defensively. When he gets his chances this season he has to be focused on making an impact, and being a player that the others can rely on, not just there, making up the numbers.


Fred and McTominay make a lot of mistakes with the ball, but their activity, pressing, aggression, ground covered still makes for a net positive, I really don't see VDB as a viable option in a 3 man midfield(which is really a 2 with Bruno pressing up, and with a non-pressing Ronaldo about to come into the team, and Pogba as well who is a defensive negative) but it is his only option as his lightweight Dele Ali thing is not enough for an attacking role at a club like Utd, maybe in 2015, but not now.
 

hobbers

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He hasn't had a huge amount of chances, however the pattern of his performances in those chances is the concern. He makes very little impact, it is not that he is giving the ball away constantly, making a lot of mistakes, more that he is just not doing much of anything, tidy anonymity on the ball, next to nothing defensively. When he gets his chances this season he has to be focused on making an impact, and being a player that the others can rely on, not just there, making up the numbers.


Fred and McTominay make a lot of mistakes with the ball, but their activity, pressing, aggression, ground covered still makes for a net positive, I really don't see VDB as a viable option in a 3 man midfield(which is really a 2 with Bruno pressing up, and with a non-pressing Ronaldo about to come into the team, and Pogba as well who is a defensive negative) but it is his only option as his lightweight Dele Ali thing is not enough for an attacking role at a club like Utd, maybe in 2015, but not now.
Can't really judge him when every single appearance he's had in centre mid has only been alongside Matic.
 

Bobski

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Can't really judge him when every single appearance he's had in centre mid has only been alongside Matic.
It is up to him to adapt and make some sort of of on pitch argument for getting more chances. Look it was boring enough all the "Pogba can't perform cause Utd don't have this, this and this, in this role, in this small area of the pitch" Utd were not going to change everything for Pogba, a colossally more talented player than Donny. Can't blame Matic for his invisible man impression, and really, if you have to blame someone else for your own inadequacy it is a bad sign.

If a young player had been promoted to the first team squad, had that many chances, performed at the same level, few would be complaining if they were demoted back down.
 
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Dve

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How can he say that when he played a total of 0 mins?

He said he is stronger now and has one year of experience playing in English league, so he is much different from the De Beek we signed last season.
I find that a bit contradictory, but ok. And don´t get me wrong, I´m all for giving him a chance, and preferable together with McTominay in a deeper role.
 

roonster09

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I find that a bit contradictory, but ok. And don´t get me wrong, I´m all for giving him a chance, and preferable together with McTominay in a deeper role.
Where is the contradiction? He has one year experience in PL and he has played 0 mins in PL this season. How can he say how much his game has improved when he didn't play a single min this season? He was talking about newer Donny compared to previous season, so only changes are he is stronger physically (as per him) and the experience he had last season.

I don't mind selling him, if he isn't a first choice back up then there is no point retaining him.
 

Chesterlestreet

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Did he mention how much he likes getting paid at United. He must be on near £200k.
Dunno if serious (who can tell) - but he's apparently on roughly the same as Matic and Fred.

Which should be somewhere around 120k.
 

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Oh god are they back? I thought we were done with those when Rafa signed! :lol:
:lol:

They're all over the place. Is Ronaldo a mercenary who'll feck up our formation, get in Bruno's zones and struggle against PL opposition, Fans thinking Lingard should get a start, Ole not signing midfielders and bringing back Fergie's donut formation, Pogba not signing a new contract... The list is seemingly endless
 

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5 a side is a different game where speed isn't as important as it is in 11 v 11. You need smart movement, good touch, and good vision. I'd pick Mata too.
Training in 5-a-sides and pre season games are why I think we've held on to certain players e.g. Mata, Matic, Rooney a bit too long :lol:

Seriously though, in such games, technique and natural ability gives you a much greater edge over speed and athletism due to the small pitch and distances to cover in the case of 5-a-side games or due to the the general lack of fitness (which I feel is a physicality leveller) in the case of preseason games. This could mean that highly talented players with great technique, but diminished physical attributes can flatter to deceive.

In a real game, general physicality is a lot more key to performances.
 

Dve

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Where is the contradiction? He has one year experience in PL and he has played 0 mins in PL this season. How can he say how much his game has improved when he didn't play a single min this season? He was talking about newer Donny compared to previous season, so only changes are he is stronger physically (as per him) and the experience he had last season.

I don't mind selling him, if he isn't a first choice back up then there is no point retaining him.
I understood him as he was comparing himself now to when he first arrived at United, and then 0 minutes this season can hardly be an argument if his experience is what´s makes the difference. But no sweat, mate.
 

Herman Toothrot

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It is up to him to adapt and make some sort of of on pitch argument for getting more chances. Look it was boring enough all the "Pogba can't perform cause Utd don't have this, this and this, in this role, in this small area of the pitch" Utd were not going to change everything for Pogba, a colossally more talented player than Donny. Can't blame Matic for his invisible man impression, and really, if you have to blame someone else for your own inadequacy it is a bad sign.

If a young player had been promoted to the first team squad, had that many chances, performed at the same level, few would be complaining if they were demoted back down.
Spot on.
 

hobbers

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It is up to him to adapt and make some sort of of on pitch argument for getting more chances. Look it was boring enough all the "Pogba can't perform cause Utd don't have this, this and this, in this role, in this small area of the pitch" Utd were not going to change everything for Pogba, a colossally more talented player than Donny. Can't blame Matic for his invisible man impression, and really, if you have to blame someone else for your own inadequacy it is a bad sign.

If a young player had been promoted to the first team squad, had that many chances, performed at the same level, few would be complaining if they were demoted back down.
Nah you can't throw a new player, however old they are, in random cup games every couple of months with a total dead weight next to them and use that as a basis to judge them.

He's maybe been shit in training, and I accept that argument.
 

hobbers

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Actually looking at all the games DVB played more than 45 minutes in last season...

3 starts in the Prem and twice on at half time. 4 wins, 1 loss. 18 scored, 6 conceded. (included the 9-0)
4 starts in the CL group. 2 wins, 2 losses. 12 scored, 6 conceded.
Started all 4 FA cup games. 3 wins, 1 loss. 6 scored, 3 conceded.
Started 3 League cup games. All wins. 8 scored, 0 conceded.

Total - 16 games. 12 wins, 3 losses. 44 scored, 15 conceded.

Obviously weaker opponents in the early cup rounds etc but the bottom line is when Donny played a big part of the match the result tended to be pretty good.
 
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The Mitcher

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Well, for starters he really understands football, which can rarely be seen among those fan channels. Also he knows a lot of people within the club and eventually got to Rio - who himself is looking for people to help him develop his channel.
He was still calling Shaw shit when it was obvious he was playing several levels above what he was saying he was playing as. He was doing it out of pure spite, not wanting to admit he was wrong.
 

The Mitcher

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I think I´d had it with donnism now. "Every right to be pissed off". Based on what. You don´t give players game time just because you fell sorry for them, or because they are handsome.
This. What has he done to warrant it? Now these public comments? If he expects game time, complaining in public is going to get him even less.
 

RDCR07

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This. What has he done to warrant it? Now these public comments? If he expects game time, complaining in public is going to get him even less.
Did you even watch the interview? He wasn’t outright complaining about it. He also said he trusts Ole and should take his chance when he gets it. That quote is what Rio or Howson said about him having a right to pissed off. Donny never said he was pissed off.
 
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FizzyWomack

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just give the boy a chance for feck sake, its so frustrating seeing him constantly get pied by ole. his attitude is fantastic, he is a man united player if only ole could see it
 

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Not a knock on Donnie but I think the difference between the Eredivisie and the other top leagues is a big one. From the 2018 Ajax team that reached the semi finals only Frenkie De Jong you can say has been fairly successful although he has also been average in large parts. De ligt, Donnie, Ziyech, Veltman, Kluivert and Dolberg have been vastly disappointing when making the step up in their respective leagues. I do understand his frustration in terms of playing time but we are in a situation where we can't afford to experiment in the league as every game is a must win. He'll start to get playing time once we start our cup runs but again, if he is as disappointing in those cup games as he was last season he'll be left out and rightfully so. Unfortunately you can't expect to start for Manchester United based on your performances in a ucl in 2018.
I agree about the gulf in quality between the Eredivisie and the top leagues - but De Jong has been amazing at Barca, De Ligt very strong at Juve, and Kluivert wasn't an important player at Ajax yet (he definitely moved far too soon). Dolberg was disappointing at the start of 2017-18 after a strong 2016-17, then was injured for the second half of 2017-18 and part of 2018-19, and didn't reach his old level/form at Ajax either before moving to Nice for 2019-20 (although apparently he was club top scorer there in 2019-20 and voted player of the year).
 
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MvG

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I agree about the gulf in quality between the Eredivisie and the top leagues - but De Jong has been amazing at Barca, De Ligt very strong at Juve, and Kluivert wasn't an important player at Ajax yet (he definitely moved far too soon). Dolberg was disappointing at the start of 2017-18 after a strong 2016-17, then was injured for the second half of 2017-18 and part of 2018-19, and didn't reach his old at Ajax either before moving to Nice for 2019-20 (although apparently he was club top scorer there in 2019-20 and voted player of the year).
Dolberg has all the talent in the world. All about attitude and application with that lad. A joy to watch when he’s on.

But all one has to do is look at Ajax’s performances in Europe with all those players in the team to know most would make the grade elsewhere.
 

Abraxas

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It's also quite possible that Ajax team was more than the sum of its parts. They were successful in a cup competition. That can happen, it doesn't by extension offer up a guarantee on the individual quality of each and every player.

Of course you do need some quality but it could easily be that they just had a few genuine standouts and the right overall composition.

The proof it offers is really just limited to the fact that VDB can theoretically be a good player in the CL under strict conditions. However based on his career to date nothing can really be said beyond that as he's not done much for us or for Holland. It's easy to understand why people cling onto that but it's not the best argument for why VDB should be good at United.
 

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He says he can play as a 6. With the abysmal performances by Fred there, worth the punt surely.
 

CG1010

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I think I´d had it with donnism now. "Every right to be pissed off". Based on what. You don´t give players game time just because you fell sorry for them, or because they are handsome.
The point is in case he isn't getting games, the guy wants to move to another club where he will play regularly. But United have blocked the move likely because we want to keep him for depth. Can't see how he will play ahead of Pogba even if we move to a 4-3-3. Let's see how things go but as it stands I feel he is being treated harshly by us and it may lead to another wasted year.
 

Danillaco

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This. What has he done to warrant it? Now these public comments? If he expects game time, complaining in public is going to get him even less.
Except it's not possible. How can he play less?
And if you watch the interview you would get the context and how it was said.
 

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I don't see who he comes in for. In cup games sure, he can get some games but why would we play him in any games that matter? With the players we have in our front 4 positions we have to play Pogba at cm. VDB isn't even half the player Pogba is in terms of ability and obviously doesn't deserve a place in the team ahead of him. He doesn't deserve a place ahead of any of our options in the front 5 positions in fact. Even Lingard has shown a lot more in his limited minutes to show he should be coming in as a backup/sub over Donny. People can say he should play for Fred but VDB has never shown anything to suggest he could play that role. When he played as a #6 for Ajax he simply controlled the game, he wasn't someone who constantly won back possession which is the type of player we need playing alongside Pogba. He plays very boring safe passes and never tries anything risky and does very little to progress the ball. His style completely conflicts with the approach of our team as a whole. He's much more suited to a possession-based approach rather than the more direct approach we play with. Don't see any way this transfer is anything other than a bust tbh. I understand why Ole didn't want him sold because we have like no depth at all in cm, but he is a wasted spot. As soon as we get a dm I expect him to be jettisoned. Hopefully we get a decent fee and he can probably go on to be better at another team that suits his style more.
 

Schmeichel's Cartwheel

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This. What has he done to warrant it? Now these public comments? If he expects game time, complaining in public is going to get him even less.
He has nothing to lose really. He never plays anyway. Ole trusted an injured McTominay over him, despite him having a good pre season. He needs to leave in January if he wants to go to the World Cup.
 

Sviken

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I don't see who he comes in for. In cup games sure, he can get some games but why would we play him in any games that matter? With the players we have in our front 4 positions we have to play Pogba at cm. VDB isn't even half the player Pogba is in terms of ability and obviously doesn't deserve a place in the team ahead of him. He doesn't deserve a place ahead of any of our options in the front 5 positions in fact. Even Lingard has shown a lot more in his limited minutes to show he should be coming in as a backup/sub over Donny. People can say he should play for Fred but VDB has never shown anything to suggest he could play that role. When he played as a #6 for Ajax he simply controlled the game, he wasn't someone who constantly won back possession which is the type of player we need playing alongside Pogba. He plays very boring safe passes and never tries anything risky and does very little to progress the ball. His style completely conflicts with the approach of our team as a whole. He's much more suited to a possession-based approach rather than the more direct approach we play with. Don't see any way this transfer is anything other than a bust tbh. I understand why Ole didn't want him sold because we have like no depth at all in cm, but he is a wasted spot. As soon as we get a dm I expect him to be jettisoned. Hopefully we get a decent fee and he can probably go on to be better at another team that suits his style more.
Then sell him. There's no real reason as to keep him around then. And given Fred's abysmal performances, I fail to see how DVB could be worse. We have that "luxury" in that we can try to play him in Fred's position and see what happens. If it doesn't work, it doesn't, but it's surely worth the try? What do we have to lose? Furthermore, pressing is not some unique thing, any footballer can press if he has the desire and instructions to do so. If it doesn't work out, just sell/loan him in the summer/winter transfer window, but if it does? We'd be in a much better spot. All I know is it's going to be a crime if we refuse to give DVB an opportunity while allowing Fred to deliver these dismal performances he's been delivering and costing us games (thankfully that didn't happen with Wolves because they can't hit the goal to save their lives), but with a stronger opposition, we'd be in big trouble.
 
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OleTheGreat

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There absolutely is. The PL has never been more competitive. We can't afford to drop many points if we're going to win the title. I can't see him ever being played as a #6 for us. If we were going to do it, it would have been tried by now.
Yes but I think he is a better risk at #6 than Fred right now because of the injury to Mctominay. I definitely think he's an upgrade to Fred even if Ole thinks of continuing with the double pivot.
 

Dazzmondo

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Then sell him. There's no real reason as to keep him around then. And given Fred's abysmal performances, I fail to see how DVB could be worse. We have that "luxury" in that we can try to play him in Fred's position and see what happens. If it doesn't work, it doesn't, but it's surely worth the try? What do we have to lose? Furthermore, pressing is not some unique thing, any footballer can press if he has the desire and instructions to do so. If it doesn't work out, just sell/loan him in the summer/winter transfer window, but if it does? We'd be in a much better spot. All I know is it's going to be a crime if we refuse to give DVB an opportunity while allowing Fred to deliver these dismal performances he's been delivering and costing us games (thankfully that didn't happen with Wolves because they can't hit the goal to save their lives), but with a stronger opposition, we'd be in big trouble.
I just said we needed him due to the lack of depth in cm which is why we can't sell him without getting a replacement dm/cm. Your point about pressing is nonsense. There's a difference between anyone trying to press and being able to press effectively. If your point was true players like Kante and Ndidi don't serve any real purpose and we might as well just play Lingard in cm (a player who presses far more effectively than VDB). Fred isn't good on the ball but both he and McTominay offer far more than VDB does defensively. Ultimately none of them should be playing the position for us regularly but we don't have any alternatives currently. Fred and McTominay both also have played decent games for us in the past and the improvement they make to our defence is pretty clear when you consider the amount of chances we conceded last season when they both played vs when one played vs when none of them played (which was very rare for a reason).
 

united_99

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I jus hope by the time he leaves he will have more games for us than interviews given about him (by himself or his agent).
 

Dazzmondo

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Surely he plays Saturday with Fred now out.
I'd imagine McTominay would come in if he is fit

EDIT: Since Fred will mis CL game, it would make sense to try VDB in the #6 role there and see how he handles it. Can't afford any risks in the PL with the quality of the top 4 this season.
 
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reelworld

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There absolutely is. The PL has never been more competitive. We can't afford to drop many points if we're going to win the title. I can't see him ever being played as a #6 for us. If we were going to do it, it would have been tried by now.
There are risks either way. If you don't give him a chance it could hurt us in the future when:
- One of the midfield player got injured for a period of time then you got a replacement that hardly played and would not be able to perform at the required level
- your players become gassed out at the end of the season and perform poorly because you never rotate them with the backups

Either way there are risks. But you already see that the second point happened last season. Why not try something else now
 

RDCR07

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There absolutely is. The PL has never been more competitive. We can't afford to drop many points if we're going to win the title. I can't see him ever being played as a #6 for us. If we were going to do it, it would have been tried by now.
Yeah cause Fred is doing a stellar job and we never drop points when he has played? Home to Newcastle is perfect time to try out DVB at #6. We would have tried it by now? But we haven’t tried it yet. You can’t say that it wont work without trying something for the first time.
 
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MvG

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Yeah cause Fred is doing a stellar job and we never drop points when he has played? Home to Newcastle is perfect time to try out DVB at #6. We would have tried it by now? But we haven’t tried it yet. You can say that without trying something for the first time.
Amazing that this is still a thing. Fred and Matic have been so poor of late that fans are clamoring for Lindelof to play CDM yet others (surely not the same ones) are claiming it’s too risky to play DvB instead of one or both of them. You have to laugh.