Florian Wirtz | Coming good any day now | Täglich grüßt das Murmeltier

It’s funny watching people grasp at straws with him. I’ve seen it here and other places saying he was Germany’s best player and put in, get this, 3 good crosses.

Rafael would put in 3 good crosses for us in a game and nobody would rave about it. The bar to praise this guy is so unbelievably low.
 
manutddjw said:
It’s funny watching people grasp at straws with him. I’ve seen it here and other places saying he was Germany’s best player and put in, get this, 3 good crosses.

Rafael would put in 3 good crosses for us in a game and nobody would rave about it. The bar to praise this guy is so unbelievably low.
Click to expand...
Its not about praising him, its about a realistic evaluation. He didnt play a great tournament, however our team was fecking shite and using him as a touchline winger is a gross misunderstanding of his qualities, same as his position in Liverpool. Still he managed to create our only chances and got a good assist. Thats all. Doesnt mean he had a great game.
 
manutddjw said:
It’s funny watching people grasp at straws with him. I’ve seen it here and other places saying he was Germany’s best player and put in, get this, 3 good crosses.

Rafael would put in 3 good crosses for us in a game and nobody would rave about it. The bar to praise this guy is so unbelievably low.
Click to expand...
I don't think anybody's raving about him
 
Didn't think he was bad yesterday, but even when he is ok, he is just a bit of an underwhelming player considering his price tag. If he was bought at a third of what he cost, then fine... Compare this guy to an Olise, and we see who the real 116 mil player is.
 
Utter shite. Anybody defending him is outrageously bias in his favour. Wirtz as a footballer has fallen off a huge cliff. I thought he'd rediscover some of his form away from the PL and surrounded by a reasonably fancied team...but no...if anything, he has looked even worse. His coach has done him no favours by playing him out on the left flank but he has just looked timid.
 
Would be a total laughing stock if this was a United player. He is just so meh- can hardly tell he’s playing 98% of the time.

Technically sound but has little to no impact on games. I’ve been generous with his first season in the PL but he was the same in the WC. He needs to show huge improvement fast otherwise this will go down as the worst transfer of all time.

I love it.
 
Jogger Bonitoe said:
He really wasn't
Click to expand...
He really was. The only way to consider his performance not good is if you judge it against the standard of a Mbappé/Olise level player

And even by that standard, he still didn't have a bad game per se, but more so a disappointing one
 
giorno said:
He really was. The only way to consider his performance not good is if you judge it against the standard of a Mbappé/Olise level player

And even by that standard, he still didn't have a bad game per se, but more so a disappointing one
Click to expand...
It was just an average performance. No one is coming away from that game saying, "well Germany lost, but what a player that Wirtz is." Literally no one is saying that. He was OK.
 
giorno said:
He really was. The only way to consider his performance not good is if you judge it against the standard of a Mbappé/Olise level player

And even by that standard, he still didn't have a bad game per se, but more so a disappointing one
Click to expand...
You don’t even have to compare him to Mbappe or Elise to conclude he had an average game
 
Changeisgood said:
Didn't think he was bad yesterday, but even when he is ok, he is just a bit of an underwhelming player considering his price tag. If he was bought at a third of what he cost, then fine... Compare this guy to an Olise, and we see who the real 116 mil player is.
Click to expand...

Wirtz was voted player of the year ahead of Olise last season. Not by fans or journalists, only professional players were allowed to vote. 29% Wirtz, 20% Kane, 17% Olise. And in the previous year, he won ahead of Kane and Musiala.

Olise has obviously played a much better season than Wirtz but those who voted him aren't clueless idiots, there are reasons the why he was rated that highly last summer. His level has simply dropped signficantly since joining Liverpool. Was still enough for a decentish world cup, though. People love taking the piss but he's currently third in assists, second in expected assists and third in key passes among all players in the tournament.
 
Zehner said:
Wirtz was voted player of the year ahead of Olise last season. Not by fans or journalists, only professional players were allowed to vote. 29% Wirtz, 20% Kane, 17% Olise. And in the previous year, he won ahead of Kane and Musiala.

Olise has obviously played a much better season than Wirtz but those who voted him aren't clueless idiots, there are reasons the why he was rated that highly last summer. His level has simply dropped signficantly since joining Liverpool. Was still enough for a decentish world cup, though. People love taking the piss but he's currently third in assists, second in expected assists and third in key passes among all players in the tournament.
Click to expand...
It's not that his level has dropped, it's simply that he's not that good. A great player moving to a bigger club at age 22/23 doesn't suddenly become rubbish. There is literally no precedent for that. He went up a level and was found wanting.

And your defence of his World Cup just seems desperate, with all due respect. He did nothing of note in the tournament and was the supposed leader of a team that are among the biggest flops in the competition.
 
Zehner said:
Wirtz was voted player of the year ahead of Olise last season. Not by fans or journalists, only professional players were allowed to vote. 29% Wirtz, 20% Kane, 17% Olise. And in the previous year, he won ahead of Kane and Musiala.

Olise has obviously played a much better season than Wirtz but those who voted him aren't clueless idiots, there are reasons the why he was rated that highly last summer. His level has simply dropped signficantly since joining Liverpool. Was still enough for a decentish world cup, though. People love taking the piss but he's currently third in assists, second in expected assists and third in key passes among all players in the tournament.
Click to expand...
Yeah those votes are often very biased against Bayern because they are the favourites and all.

Wirtz winning it over Olise was a joke.

But he was easily our best attacking player yesterday.
 
Jogger Bonitoe said:
It was just an average performance. No one is coming away from that game saying, "well Germany lost, but what a player that Wirtz is." Literally no one is saying that. He was OK.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And he did have an assist and set up another big chance for them
Zehner said:
Wirtz was voted player of the year ahead of Olise last season. Not by fans or journalists, only professional players were allowed to vote. 29% Wirtz, 20% Kane, 17% Olise. And in the previous year, he won ahead of Kane and Musiala
Click to expand...
Proving that bundesliga footballers are just as clueless as PL ones
 
giorno said:
He really was. The only way to consider his performance not good is if you judge it against the standard of a Mbappé/Olise level player

And even by that standard, he still didn't have a bad game per se, but more so a disappointing one
Click to expand...
And the response to that is “£120m”. Because for that, you expect one of the best players in the world.
 
IrwinwasbetterthanCarlos said:
And the response to that is “£120m”. Because for that, you expect one of the best players in the world.
Click to expand...
Yes, for Liverpool that's true

Germany did not pay 120m for him though. They're probably disappointed by his overall level, but I don't think they ripped his performance yesterday
 
BayernFan87 said:
Yeah those votes are often very biased against Bayern because they are the favourites and all.

Wirtz winning it over Olise was a joke.

But he was easily our best attacking player yesterday.
Click to expand...

Haven't seen enough of Olise last season to judge him accurately but Wirtz was phenomenal in 24/25. Only Leverkusen player to maintain or even improve his level from the double season.


giorno said:
Proving that bundesliga footballers are just as clueless as PL ones
Click to expand...

Wasn't aware you were following the Bundesliga that closely
 
Jogger Bonitoe said:
It's not that his level has dropped, it's simply that he's not that good. A great player moving to a bigger club at age 22/23 doesn't suddenly become rubbish. There is literally no precedent for that.
Click to expand...
That's just nonsense. Plenty of players had underwhelming first seasons after joining a new club. Modric was voted the flop of the season after his move to Real Madrid and he was older than Wirtz. Rodri was 23 when he joined Manchester City and just look at what people on this forum were saying about him back then.

Wirtz was okay at the WC. Nothing spectacular, but nothing to be ashamed of either. Apart from losing to Paraguay of course.

I still think he will come good, but who knows.
 
Zehner said:
Wasn't aware you were following the Bundesliga that closely
Click to expand...
I did follow Olise and it's complete nonsense if he didn't win player of the season. Like Foden winning over Rodri

Olise in the bundes has been basically Messi
 
giorno said:
I did follow Olise and it's complete nonsense if he didn't win player of the season. Like Foden winning over Rodri

Olise in the bundes has been basically Messi
Click to expand...

Blasphemy
 
Rossbach said:
That's just nonsense. Plenty of players had underwhelming first seasons after joining a new club. Modric was voted the flop of the season after his move to Real Madrid and he was older than Wirtz. Rodri was 23 when he joined Manchester City and just look at what people on this forum were saying about him back then.

Wirtz was okay at the WC. Nothing spectacular, but nothing to be ashamed of either. Apart from losing to Paraguay of course.

I still think he will come good, but who knows.
Click to expand...
What I am talking about is a great player 'becoming rubbish' which implies moving to a bigger club with a huge reputation and massive plaudits in your wake. That doesn't apply to Modric and Rodri, who weren't bought for record shattering fees. Their reputation as great, tippity top elite players rests on what they went on to do with Madrid and City, not what they previously did with Spurs and Atletico Madrid.

Wirtz is currently the 9th most expensive player in the entire history of football. There is no precedent for a great player costing that much money and then spending a whole season being mid. The ones that fall into that category tend to be players that weren't that great to begin with, and the move exposes them, to a large degree.
 
He's terrible really.

I was saying to my mate today, you'd surely look to a £130m man to grab the game by the scruff of the neck, make things happen, take players on, try difficult balls when you need a goal v Paraguay and his reply was 'It's not really his game to do that'.

Then yeah fair enough, if you just want a player that can keep the ball, has tidy control and does the basics well then yeah he's fine but as soon as you ask him to try something with a low % of success, he's giving the ball away, yet still people are fawning over him.
 
Jogger Bonitoe said:
What I am talking about is a great player 'becoming rubbish' which implies moving to a bigger club with a huge reputation and massive plaudits in your wake. That doesn't apply to Modric and Rodri, who weren't bought for record shattering fees. Their reputation as great, tippity top elite players rests on what they went on to do with Madrid and City, not what they previously did with Spurs and Atletico Madrid.

Wirtz is currently the 9th most expensive player in the entire history of football. There is no precedent for a great player costing that much money and then spending a whole season being mid. The ones that fall into that category tend to be players that weren't that great to begin with, and the move exposes them, to a large degree.
Click to expand...
Not sure if you're rage baiting, but I'll give you one example who is up there with Wirtz in the most expensive player ranking: Dembele. Cost more than Wirtz (though base fee for Wirtz may be slightly higher), had a worse first season at Barcelona than Wirtz has had at Pool (same for his national team performances at that year's World Cup) and is now one of the top five players in the world by most metrics, even winning the Ballon d'Or last year.

Not saying that Wirtz's carreer will take the same trajectory, but a highly rated talent going to a bigger club followed by their performance dropping off on all levels is not that uncommon of an occurrence. Football carreers have peaks and valleys, wouldn't be surprised to see him be a completely changed player at the 28 Euros.
 
Last edited:
giorno said:
Yes, for Liverpool that's true

Germany did not pay 120m for him though. They're probably disappointed by his overall level, but I don't think they ripped his performance yesterday
Click to expand...
Doesn’t matter. The price tag is the price tag. When you move for big money, big expectations follow. You can argue the rights wrongs, but it’s how it is.
 
Jogger Bonitoe said:
What I am talking about is a great player 'becoming rubbish' which implies moving to a bigger club with a huge reputation and massive plaudits in your wake. That doesn't apply to Modric and Rodri, who weren't bought for record shattering fees.
Click to expand...
Rodri was biggest transfer in City history, over 60 m pounds. In 2019 it was a lot of money.

Jogger Bonitoe said:
Wirtz is currently the 9th most expensive player in the entire history of football.
Click to expand...

He's not. According to the Athletic it was 100m flat fee and 16m in addons activated when Liverpool win 2 PL and 2 CL (4 m for each). So at the moment it's still 100 m. In the PL Enzo, Rice, and Caicedo all cost more than Wirtz.

Jogger Bonitoe said:
The ones that fall into that category tend to be players that weren't that great to begin with, and the move exposes them, to a large degree.
Click to expand...

Obviously I don't know what will happen with him in the future, but Wirtz is already the greatest player in Bayer's history. I know that doesn't say much, but still ;)
 
Okocha119 said:
Not sure if you're rage baiting, but I'll give you one example who is up there with Wirtz in the most expensive player ranking: Dembele. Cost more than Wirtz (though base fee for Wirtz may be slightly higher), had a worse first season at Barcelona than Wirtz has had at Pool (same for his national team performances at that year's World Cup) and is now one of the top five players in the world by most metrics, even winning the Ballon d'Or last year.

Not saying that Wirtz's carreer will take the same trajectory, but a highly rated talent going to a bigger club followed by their performance dropping off on all levels is not that uncommon of an occurrence. Football carreers have peaks and valleys, wouldn't be surprised to see him be a completely changed player at the 28 Euros.
Click to expand...
The example that you have given only strengthens my point and adds another dimension to Wirtz's failure. Dembele got injured almost immediately at Barca and then spent his entire time there struggling with one injury or another.

Wirtz's poor season was completely down to his inability to adjust to a new team, system, and league, suggesting that he is not as good as his supporters claim, given that he is supposedly already an elite, rather than a developing player moving towards that top category. He did not have any serious injuries throughout the campaign and was generally a starter in the team.
 
giorno said:
He's not, but again, I figure germans are disappointed he's not a star, but I don't think they're gonna hold that against him after he had a good game

I figure sentiment on him today would be "he played well, unfortunately he's just not Matthaus, or even Ballack"
Click to expand...

Or even Frings.
 
Rossbach said:
Rodri was biggest transfer in City history, over 60 m pounds. In 2019 it was a lot of money.
Click to expand...

He cost significantly less than Harry Maguire, Nicolas Pepe, Frenkie De Jong, Matthijs de Ligt and Lucas Hernandez, who were all transferred in the same year. I'm not saying 60 mill is chicken feed, but it wasn't an extraordinary amount of money, then or now.
Rossbach said:
He's not. According to the Athletic it was 100m flat fee and 16m in addons activated when Liverpool win 2 PL and 2 CL (4 m for each). So at the moment it's still 100 m. In the PL Enzo, Rice, and Caicedo all cost more than Wirtz.
Click to expand...

The flat £100m fee still puts him 9th all time, irrespective of the add ons.
Rossbach said:
Obviously I don't know what will happen with him in the future, but Wirtz is already the greatest player in Bayer's history. I know that doesn't say much, but still ;)
Click to expand...
It does say a lot. Bayer is a great club. I don't know what will happen either, but I don't see him becoming a world-beating great (as opposed to a club or domestic great) at this stage. If I'm wrong, I still benefit, because who doesn't want to watch a world- beating great?
 
Okocha119 said:
Cost more than Wirtz (though base fee for Wirtz may be slightly higher), had a worse first season at Barcelona than Wirtz has had at Pool
Click to expand...
I don't think Dembele was even considered as a flop after his first season there, he looked pretty decent if you ask me.
 
If Wirtz flopped the way Dembelé did in Barcelona this thread would be page after page of "i hope he stays a perma crock/never figures out how to play football with a team because that would be SCARY"
 
Rossbach said:
Obviously I don't know what will happen with him in the future, but Wirtz is already the greatest player in Bayer's history. I know that doesn't say much, but still ;)
Click to expand...
I personally would give that title to Ulf Kirsten, even if he fell just short of the big Triple.
 
I remember a while ago we had a discussion here if Wirtz or Mbappe is the better player overall.

Is that discussion still on?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.