I vehemently disagree with this statement.
Or do you mean the first move from De Bruyne?
Florian Wirtz | Der Fußballgott | Der Fluch ist gebrochen!
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Or do you mean the first move from De Bruyne?
I can see similarities to Havertz to Chelsea transfer.
Havertz was just as highly regarded as Wirtz was when he moved from Germany.
Its always a risk getting a player from Germany and that too for so much money.
Liverpool having spent so little for past few years have really had a questionable summer. Their 2 wingbacks have been average. Wirtz doesn’t look good at the moment and not sure how he even fits in this system. Ekitike looks good but is already relegated to bench. Isak as such is a proven quantity but even then for his injury record 125m may be too much.
Havertz was just as highly regarded as Wirtz was when he moved from Germany.
Its always a risk getting a player from Germany and that too for so much money.
Liverpool having spent so little for past few years have really had a questionable summer. Their 2 wingbacks have been average. Wirtz doesn’t look good at the moment and not sure how he even fits in this system. Ekitike looks good but is already relegated to bench. Isak as such is a proven quantity but even then for his injury record 125m may be too much.
You could say the exact same thing about Jadon Sancho though.
Yes, more dominant, more consistent
That would’ve been some assist to Salah. Thank feck it wasn’t as we’d never hear the end of it.
I dont know how often i read this on here, but its simply not true.
It is not about bad performances only. He looks completely out of depth. Tactically and physically.
Our Antony for example wasn't nearly bad as this.
Our Antony for example wasn't nearly bad as this.
I mean prime Wolfsburg de Bruyne.
He sure had some 10/10 games, but was never as consistent as Wirtz imo.
One of those two led his team to an invicible season and it wasnt de Bruyne.
He’s the German Havertz.
Ran out of damage control. There’s some scouser masquerading as a Brazilian fan in here instead now
But you don’t weight the league by its decline? KDB’s season was performed against a better collective set of clubs, no?
No there isn’t…
I dont watch BL much (if at all). But I remember that Havertz was highly regarded 5 yrs back when he moved. Same for Wirtz.
But I guess while both seems to be highly regarded they may not be at the same level.
Do you regard him as a better talent than even Gotze at Dortmund?
Did you guys manage to find evidence he was actually a scouser pretending to be a Brazilian?
He sure sounds like one.
Havertz scored the winner in CL for us. Generally he's always looked a good player, just hard to know how to utilise him best.
Not comparable with Wirtz for the moment.
Not comparable with Wirtz for the moment.
I think he's banned/thread banned, couldn't view his profile at the very least.
Shame, I really enjoyed his insights into Peter Schmeichel's performance for Man Utd in 2000 vs Palmeiras, a season after he left the club.
Florian Worst, hahaha
I actually thing Havertz is a bit like a forwards version of Mason Mount.
You can't play him as a number 10, you can't make him lead the line, he's not really a winger, but he has really good attributes for all three of the roles.
Just like how you can't make Mount play as a deep lying playmaker, or a box to box, or a pure number 10, but he has attributes that can suit all 3.
Just far too rude and abrasive despite being asked repeatedly to tone it down. His personal vendetta also consumed him to the point it got tedious.Did you guys manage to find evidence he was actually a scouser pretending to be a Brazilian?
Shame as they could have been a solid addition if they could get over themselves. Oh well.
That's obviously nonsense. 14/15 De Bruyne was on a whole other level, carried Wolfsburg to second place on his back.
The Bundesliga thing is an issue but not for all players. I think there’s a certain type of player than can thrive in the Bundesliga but be totally shown up in the PL.
The players who aren’t blessed with great physique or athleticism are the ones that could find it hard transferring their skills. KDB and Haaland are obvious examples of players who have the right build for the league, then you have the likes of Havertz, Firmino and Joelinton who struggled at first but developed the physique to do well here.
The type of player that I’m weary of are Kagawa, Mkhitaryan, Werner, Sancho. All players that were statistically excellent in the BL but were abysmal in the league because they didn’t have the body to deal with the physicality of the league. Wirtz is looking like he may fit in this category. Like Sancho, his dribbling was the foundation for his game to open everything else up but if he can’t do that it fundamentally affects the rest of his game.
So yes I do agree not all BL players struggle but you need to look at the type of player they were. Ekitike and Woltemade for example are big boys that look like they can handle themselves so won’t have an issue adapting.
The players who aren’t blessed with great physique or athleticism are the ones that could find it hard transferring their skills. KDB and Haaland are obvious examples of players who have the right build for the league, then you have the likes of Havertz, Firmino and Joelinton who struggled at first but developed the physique to do well here.
The type of player that I’m weary of are Kagawa, Mkhitaryan, Werner, Sancho. All players that were statistically excellent in the BL but were abysmal in the league because they didn’t have the body to deal with the physicality of the league. Wirtz is looking like he may fit in this category. Like Sancho, his dribbling was the foundation for his game to open everything else up but if he can’t do that it fundamentally affects the rest of his game.
So yes I do agree not all BL players struggle but you need to look at the type of player they were. Ekitike and Woltemade for example are big boys that look like they can handle themselves so won’t have an issue adapting.
Wirtz had shown a lot more than Havertz in the Bundesliga and is/was regarded as a better player.
Götze is hard to compare since he became ill and wasn’t able to have the career that seemed possible.
Off topic; people really underestimate Havertz. As it looks now, Pool fans should be delighted if Wirtz will have PL career like Havertz had.
To be clear; i am not saying that Havertz is a good player but he did ok in PL. And he did score a winner in CL final.
To be clear; i am not saying that Havertz is a good player but he did ok in PL. And he did score a winner in CL final.
Havertz is better than people make him, but unless Liverpool completely lose their heads (fingers crossed), Wirtz will have a better PL career than him. He's a better player.
Wirtz is who Van De Beek thought he was. I'm really not sure how this will translate to the pace and strength of this league though. Can see him flopping.
That was something
At this point both of those statements are in serious doubt.
Havertz has 32 G/A from 48 games as a CF for us. Wirtz is actually more likely to have an inferior PL career to him. Wirtz it’s obviously a talented player, but he seems to be completely ill-suited to this league.
There is nowhere near the amount of space he was used to and that blunts his most potent attributes as a 10. Slot has tried to counteract this by playing him on the wing, but it’s not his strongest position and his play there is inferior to Gakpo.
Not really. If Wirtz flops at Liverpool, it will be a monumental failure of Liverpool the club, and of Slot, because the player's quality is beyond doubt.
Missed him but yeah,
Gittens: 3.9 successful dribbles per 90; 51.7% success rate
Musiala: 3.6 successful dribbles per 90; 55.0% success rate
Wirtz: 3.1 successful dribbles per 90; 50.9% success rate
Still two of top 3, and some distance away from the rest, and they look like they can't beat anybody now.
Surely they'd both take 'blame', in this instance? People go on like Wirtz have proven to be a world class player for multple seasons at the very highest level(s) - when that's not entirely the case. I'm sure he's a quality player but whether he's able to adapt to the PL is much on him, as it is on Pool. After all, there's only so much they can do to try and accomodate him.
Not to say he won't come good, of course, but he has it all to prove. Not the team who strolled to the league without him in fairness.
I hope he is Liverpools version of Sancho, Isak is their Hojlund and Etekete will be their Antony (who also started with a few goals). About time someone else messed up their transfer kitty.
I know this will delve into the BL is shite discussion, but he has been on a world class level for Leverkusen for about three and a half seasons. He's been amazingly consistent not only in league but also, more importantly, in European competition as well.
It's more a case of him not being able to adapt to Liverpool's style than his quality.
I don’t doubt he has, bud and im not one to readily dismiss other leagues etc. but that statement to say if Wirtz can’t cut the mustard it’ll all be Liverpool’s fault was a bit wild, IMO. And I also think he has to prove a bit more still to be proven de facto world class - that’s just my opinion. No doubt the talent is there but whether he adapts to the league is currently a huge question mark.
I haven't watched a lot of Leverkusen matches in Europe and there is more to football than goals and assists, but at least in terms of final third output he has seemingly beat up on the minnows in Europe and been a non-factor against the better sides. Zero goals and zero assists last year in the five matches against top level sides (Milan, Liverpool, Atletico, Bayern, Inter) in the CL he played and only one goal and zero assists in the Europa League in the five matches against the better sides (West Ham, Roma, Atalanta) the year beforehand. Maybe he was brilliant in other respects but that record is not very impressive.
Difficult to agree.
KDB was perhaps more inconsistent back then but he was already clearly among the very best offensive midfielders in the world and aside from Madrid who had an all time trio in their midst in those days capable of slotting into any XI.
The point im trying to make that is with truly great players there are certain attributes that put them ahead of the curve and it doesn't matter what league they are playing at as the fundamentals inevitably triumph and their quality shines through no matter the league they've chosen.
Take KDB for example, while it may sound reductive to reduce him to simple attributes it was clear that be excelled in several important facets of the game, highly intelligent capable of incredible bursts of creativity coupled with a degree of physical vigor and tenacity rarely seen in players of his caliber with regards to technique, not many could dribble, cover ground and on top of that have impeccable ball distribution as he showcased in those days.
Here you have a player whom no matter the system or the league will excel as he simply has the attributes to do so, he could play both possession heavy based with a high press football or primitive hoof ball and everything in between, the same applies to Haaland who even though isn't as versatile as de bruyne clearly showed a degree of physical superiority and predatory instincts that earmarked him for success and it was evident with his performances in Europe that it would transfer to the highest levels of the competition.
Non of that in my opinion applied to wirtz, he lacks the close ball control and acceleration required to be a top dribbler and now seems to lack the physicality for it as well, his creativity while decent was clearly inferior to someone like debruyne while not exactly having the attributes to drop deep and perform a metronome function required of that position which leaves you with a player with a clearly optimal role as an attacking midfielder who while decent at several things doesn't really excel at any of them.
I feel it'll eventually become evident the degree of success he enjoyed at leverkusen was due to a very well coached team surpassing the sum of its parts due to the aforementioned coaching and while he may go on to have a decent or perhaps even great career i heavily lean onto him not ever quite reaching world class status.