Florian Wirtz | Der Fußballgott | Der Fluch ist gebrochen!

The issue isn't' his work rate - he's obviously trying hard. It's just that he isn't a great athlete, unlike the vast majority of PL players these days. He can run a lot, but he can't repeatedly sprint at high intensity, and then recover sufficiently enough for it not to affect his technique.

Just a bizarre signing for a team whose dominance in recent years was built up on an aggressive pressing game and transitions.

It's not bizarre, Liverpool was in their second season of high level football, finally winning the title and in the top of the wave they decided to even go further and invest in names on the rise.
That's quite logical and even in both prior seasons the main players arrived to the last stage quite unfit, so they needed more fellas.
Building on your succeess, when you are more appealing, when you hope to add more and better guns, it's not bizarre.

I do thind it is and was a very bad idea to let Luiz Diaz go, not prolific enough or whatever, the guy was playing really well, he gaves all, he is very vertical, direct, with great dribbling and pace. In a team full of great passers, dinamic and feisty fellas, Lucho offererd a lot in the offenisive to break lines by himself. More when your biggest star it's, at his currrent age it's a moments player and does not particpate as much pressing either.

Also that many of their core players would have been in a lower level (all at the same time), that the new do not look confident enough it's not sthg that predictable.

Maybe they should had tested way more adding a tre quartista, mediapunta alike fella a la Wirtz with Chiesa prior to buy him, to find a system with a real aim of using someone in such role with such characteristics.
 
It's not bizarre, Liverpool was in their second season of high level football, finally winning the title and in the top of the wave they decided to even go further and invest in names on the rise.
That's quite logical and even in both prior seasons the main players arrived to the last stage quite unfit, so they needed more fellas.
Building on your succeess, when you are more appealing, when you hope to add more and better guns, it's not bizarre.

I do thind it is and was a very bad idea to let Luiz Diaz go, not prolific enough or whatever, the guy was playing really well, he gaves all, he is very vertical, direct, with great dribbling and pace. In a team full of great passers, dinamic and feisty fellas, Lucho offererd a lot in the offenisive to break lines by himself. More when your biggest star it's, at his currrent age it's a moments player and does not particpate as much pressing either.

Also that many of their core players would have been in a lower level (all at the same time), that the new do not look confident enough it's not sthg that predictable.

Maybe they should had tested way more adding a tre quartista, mediapunta alike fella a la Wirtz with Chiesa prior to buy him, to find a system with a real aim of using someone in such role with such characteristics.
It's not bizarre to want to progress and evolve the team. But it is bizarre for a team built on high intensity pressing to try to build their team around someone who is physically weak and slow by PL standards. Particularly at a time when the PL is become more physical and direct than it has been for over a decade. It's no coincidence that their best players this season - Szoboszlai, Gravenberch and Ekitike - are still the ones who are the best athletes.

It's a bit like when we signed Veron. Objectively a good player, but not right for either our style nor for the league at the time.
 
It's not bizarre to want to progress and evolve the team. But it is bizarre for a team built on high intensity pressing to try to build their team around someone who is physically weak and slow by PL standards. Particularly at a time when the PL is become more physical and direct than it has been for over a decade. It's no coincidence that their best players this season - Szoboszlai, Gravenberch and Ekitike - are still the ones who are the best athletes.

It's a bit like when we signed Veron. Objectively a good player, but not right for either our style nor for the league at the time.

Wirtz has already had some technically very impressive performances in matches in which he had an exceptionally high work rate - for instance Real Madrid. However, for the argument's sake, let's assume you're right in that the higher intensity of the league negatively affects his technique and decision making because he is exhausted. As has already been established, he's one of the hardest working players in the league. So he could simply work 10% less and still be among top contributors off the ball but his decision making and technique would profit from that, right? Here's for instance what Adrian Clarke wrote about his performance agaisnt West Ham on the official Premier League website:

The statistics tell us that Wirtz stripped back his physical output against West Ham.

He covered less distance than usual and was on course to finish the match around one kilometre (km) down on his season average of 11.8km when substituted with 15 minutes left.

Wirtz's average speed was a sprightly 7.43km/h, the highest of any Liverpool player, but he chose to conserve his energy for key moments rather than making runs for the sake of it.

This potentially helped him to look sharper when the ball was at his feet.

And on top of that, even if he didn't adapt anything, this could simply be a process that might take some time, right? You see it all the time that players need a certain transition phase when moving to a physically more demanding league so that their body can catch up to it.
 
Bottomline is he has 0 assists 0 goals after 13 games in the PL. He has a couple of assists in his 4 CL games. So far, he is having more trouble adapting to the PL than he is adapting to Pool Id say...He may not be suited for the PL at all, but we should give him about another 13 games to probably draw that conclusion. Starting to look ominous though. They spent about 50% more on him than Chelsea spent on Mudryk. At least he is a better player, but that would still be a massive spend.
 
It's not bizarre to want to progress and evolve the team. But it is bizarre for a team built on high intensity pressing to try to build their team around someone who is physically weak and slow by PL standards. Particularly at a time when the PL is become more physical and direct than it has been for over a decade. It's no coincidence that their best players this season - Szoboszlai, Gravenberch and Ekitike - are still the ones who are the best athletes.

It's a bit like when we signed Veron. Objectively a good player, but not right for either our style nor for the league at the time.

Leaving Wirtz aside, for real the League thing it's (as usual) going over the top, specially regarding players already in the team.

The real thing close to Veron it's that he arrived to a very settled team yet in Sebastian's case with a very similar profile of those already there and a bunch of tactical issues due to the mix.
Another thing in common that never helps, it's the price tag, that always mess up things, the moment sthg. it's not perfect, its ugly head will arise.

Then Wirtz actually it's a profile Liverpool didn't had, they only had it with Chiesa, who can't (because of injuries and coaches decisions) gain and secure a place since time now. It's here with this change of profile, with a more cerebral "enganche", mediapunta, tre quartista, with dribbling where stuff it's quite diff from Veron's case.
Veron reminds me when Pekerman in the NT at times used Riquelme, Lucho Gonzalez, Cambiasso, etc etc and not adding sthg actually diff a la Aimar and at times they overlaped, while lacking ball carrying, more dribbling and dinamism as whole.
Also Veron was a trip with ups and lows, notas bad and dire looks the situation with Wirtz and finally like in the past with Verón, with a coach not entirely knowing how to use his new toy and explain it to the old guys.

About Szoboszlai, Gravenberch and Ekitike and the rest it's as black and white. First neither of the three now it's at his best and the last one looked better due to price...not saying that he didn't showed more numbers to the very least, yet it was used to add fuel to the fire.
New Isak and oldies like Virgil, Salah, Konate and even midget Mac Allister are far from push overs physically, they are just playing below their best level, where is the chicken and where is the egg behind such level?, dunno, it differs on every case and at times it's all mixed up and not easy to solve.

In the case of Szoboszlai, Gravenberch they had some great moments, the first one still mostly saving face, but here comes sthg. important. One of the reasons (apart form the Cherry on the top and some seek of flair) why they tried to add another gun with Wirtz and till now it's backfiring, is: Brains. Even at his best these two aren't that cerebral, are more dinamic, powerful, relentless than this.

So when Virgil, Mac Allister and Salah are off, being all more cold, more patient, more cerebral, this aspect of a very rock and roll team Liverpool always has been since years, starts to collapsed. No wonder two of their best games as a whole, as a team, had at least Virgil and Mac Allister in their at least normal level.

Wirtz, I guess Chiesa as a bet before, are the fellas bought to bring that extra layer offensivly, certain even flair and pause and dare that they are not providing and even at times too much rock and roll Luisito it's severely missed. When Liverpool in the past also lost control, Luis many times kept them pushing, trying, reckless at times, yet with lots of talent and dare involve. Now they only have Dominc in such task and he isn't either a dribbler in the realm of Lucho. Trent as a disrupter coming at times, also is lacking. Frimpong looked like quite a solution and people it's not talking enough of that fullback issue. Here comes in such aspect, what huge bucks (Wirtz) will attract, Isak, Frimpong, Etitike have to take advantage of what these type of numbers can provide, giving them a tad less bad exposure till they find their best level.

So more than a bad idea, bizarre one, the timing of all of it seems to crumble, with issues everywhere and only time might heal it, with key players returning to their best level and finding roles for everyone., We'll see what happens, certainly lots of fun for rivals, since they certainly were looking like adding cherries on the top and everything now is falling apart.

PD: When a team finds itself as a Team, if they bring sthg diff from the general tendency, it usally works, so they do not have (didn't had to) to follow the trend (if such trend actually exists as a an extent it's talked about).
City as athe best example of recent years and multiple ones in the history of the game everywhere, it's just that this particular ecosystem must WORK within its own structure, you can't impose without actually playing as a proper team and with pieces all over the place being below par.

PD2: Sorry the long rant and going sideways, not just about Wirtz
 
Absolute nothing player based on what he’s shown at Liverpool.

£100m for a player with no tactical discipline who lays the ball off 5 yards.
 
Another blank for das wunderkind. It's becoming cruel now. In a funny way.
 
Absolute nothing player based on what he’s shown at Liverpool.

£100m for a player with no tactical discipline who lays the ball off 5 yards.

Been hoping, my Germany fan side, that he does improve but that's all but gone. He's going to continue to be average this and go back to the BL, where he'll be a slightly above average player for the rest of his career.

Really wonder how different it would've been had he gone to Bayern.
 
Would've had much of the same problems anyways

Would've been a more comfortable surrounding though, no change in league and many players he's played with for Germany. Might've had a Gotze type season, good but not the grand expectations.
 
Would've been a more comfortable surrounding though, no change in league and many players he's played with for Germany. Might've had a Gotze type season, good but not the grand expectations.
Yeap, that's my thinking too. Not outright bad, but a massive disappointment based on expectations
 
Shame he wasn't playing today after his recent run of good form
 
He is looking like their more expensive version of Antony.

He'll no doubt look a better player again when he moves leagues.
 
He is looking like their more expensive version of Antony.

He'll no doubt look a better player again when he moves leagues.

He's on a fortune in wages isn't he? I hope he's in the Sancho "I'm going to milk this contract for everything it's worth" mould and not an honourable guy whos willing to take a pay cut.
 
Nice dummy for the Szchaboslai goal. He's clearly talented but he's just not made for the PL.
 
He's on a fortune in wages isn't he? I hope he's in the Sancho "I'm going to milk this contract for everything it's worth" mould and not an honourable guy whos willing to take a pay cut.

I don't think anyone is in the Sancho mould.

Wirtz is on about £200 k, I'm sure Bayern will take him if Liverpool agree to take a massive financial hit.
 
I remember Zehner saying he would be better than Haaland and Mbappé or something along those lines, but I just don't see it personality wise, even aside from talent. They've never had periods as ineffectual as this. He was supposed to be that sort of level of talent where he can't mess up, just seems a bit timid.
 
I mean, Leeds? Supposed to be a tune up game. Looking bleak.
Said this before but, there's just nothing he's exceptional at, no particular skill for him to fall back on when things aren't working. Looks like the kind of player who can only play well if the team does as a whole right now
 
I wasn’t the only one who knew he wasn’t a sure thing to adapt, this season at least, but the roaring I heard about him, I understood why but I made it pretty clear, a position they didn’t really use but also a transition from a completely different league and for sure not a sure thing. I also questioned Isaks transition oddly enough. Man this is way worse than I thought.

Di Maria got dragged through the sewers and he tied for second assist in the premier league in his only season here. If he stayed and we had another manager I can guaranty he would have shined

Not sure what the real way this should have gone was a move to a lower side and he proved his worth here in the league, or to La liga first? I’m really not sure.
 
Said this before but, there's just nothing he's exceptional at, no particular skill for him to fall back on when things aren't working. Looks like the kind of player who can only play well if the team does as a whole right now
Yeah, it doesn’t get much worse/easier than Leeds and he still didn’t look the part. Starting to look like a very serious concern now because there aren’t many easier tune up games than this.
 
He's a neat and tidy player, that's about it
 
I don't think in even a worse case scenario prediction back when they signed him, anyone could have predicted just how badly it's gone so far.

It's December and he hasn't scored a goal or got an assist. It's remarkable.
 
I like him, reminds me of Emile Smith Rowe but not quite at his level.

Would be worth a punt for a team like Burnley or a one of the bigger Championship clubs like Ipswich/Southampton. Not guranteed to flourish at clubs as good as those, could be beyond him but I think he'd have a chance.
 
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His confidence must be in the toilet.

Is he guaranteed a World Cup spot even if he’s like this all season?