The German Lallana. Actually no, at this rate he'll do pretty well if he matches Lallana's body of work in the EPL.
Florian Wirtz | Der Fußballgott | Der Fluch ist gebrochen!
- Thread starter Invictus
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In the team? Yes. As a starter? Probably depending on how Germany‘s wingers (Sané and Gnabry v5?) are doing.
I’m pretty sure Nagelsmann is going to role out some overly complicated and dysfunctional formation, to fit both Musiala and Wirtz into the team.
It could/should work if you have them both drift between 10 and LW and use a proper RW and an overlapping LB. But…
Of course it could work. But we both know that Nagelsmann will choose the least pragmatic approach possible and we probably end up with Musiala as a wing back or something like that.
I think I made this point before he even kicked a ball for Liverpool. What had he done to warrant a Top 10 all-time transfer fee? He is also the all-time most expensive player bought from the Bundesliga. Seems like he always should have been a £60-70m player.
Was working fine at the euros tbf, even though Wirtz wasn't exactly shining(neither was Musiala for that matter, but his dribbling at least was still a constant threat)
Mmm...actually yeah, you might be better off with something different
WoltemadeWas working fine at the euros tbf, even though Wirtz wasn't exactly shining(neither was Musiala for that matter, but his dribbling at least was still a constant threat)
Mmm...actually yeah, you might be better off with something different
? - Musiala - Karl
Pavlovic - Bischof
? - Schlotterbeck - Tah - Kimmich
?
Prove me wrong!
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Interesting to hear Neville's thoughts on his podcast after the game yesterday. He thinks the problem is that Wirtz is running too much, but too slowly, and trying to get on the ball too much. That Wirtz should keep further forward and make higher intensity runs close to goal, because he isn't good enough from deep positions to justify dropping back. He argued that if you are always on the move it's a lot actually easier for defenders to pick up and close down, than if you are stationary for long periods and then sprint into space.
Seems like this might be a difference between the Premier League and the Bundesliga. With the former much more about burst of activity, and the latter more about linking neat and tidy patterns of play.
Seems like this might be a difference between the Premier League and the Bundesliga. With the former much more about burst of activity, and the latter more about linking neat and tidy patterns of play.
Bundesliga is absolutely not about neat linking and tidy patterns of play, it is gung ho up and down from most sides in it.
It's much simpler than any nuanced tactical problem, most of the Bundesliga sides are gash... attackers have way more time, space and chances. Similar to Werner and other attackers who struggled to translate their numbers from Germany.
Not just the Bundesliga, clubs are taking a massive risk paying big money for players from the other European leagues, expecting the same output, Gyökeres seems a similar case.
The fees paid have been at least 50% too high, remains to be seen if clubs get way more cautious in future transfer windows...
In this form I wouldnt say so.
But it also depends on how Musiala and Havertz come back from injuries. These two and Gnabry are probably Wirtz' biggest contenders for the CAM spot.
Regarding the wings, Sané and Adeyemi, also sometimes brain dead, offer more speed and deep runs and with Karl and El Mala we have two exciting youngsters that are having a great season so far.
Wirtz plays like someone Man United would sign, and we'd all blame ourselves for ruining him. I have no idea how he can be this shit with how rated he was prior to this season. They can stop you making key passes, they can stop you scoring, but they cant stop your running. He seems to stand there looking confused most of the time.
Has JN been that inconsistent (or baffling) for the NT? I ask because I haven’t followed closely. He’s always been at the top/near the top of my list of potential managers I’d like at United and i thought before he took over the NT gig that it wasn’t/isn’t exactly a vintage German squad, quality wise….(that obviously changes with Musiala, Wirtz and a few others coming through).
I guess in short….how has he performed for your NT?
Well yes, that's pretty much what Neville was saying, he wasn't presenting it as a nuanced tactical problem. Simply that Wirtz is moving too much and too slowly and that to succeed he needs to move less, but with more intensity and closer to goal.
I don't really think it's the same problem as Werner at all. His movement, explosivity and getting in good positions was fine, it was his finishing that was terrible.
it's not even just this, it's that the bundesliga is really really easy for forwards. It's actually a good idea to sign defenders from there, as they're probably going to translate well
Wirtz is exactly what I thought we were getting from Van de Beek when we signed him.
The baffling decisions mostly happened in his time with Bayern, which is where my skepticism regarding him comes from. He has a tendency to utilise overly complicated tactics, that his teams struggle to implement properly.
For Germany, this improved once he took over. He simplified many things, payed more attention to team chemistry and stuff like that and we played a solid European tournament.
Ever since, however, he looks like he is reverting back to his weird and overly complicated approaches.
Generally speaking, I don’t think he has what it takes to manage a top club. At least not yet. His man management is lacking too much.
Comments like this always make me wonder: is there any country where most of the people in it think their national team coach is doing a good job?
Blimey, I was aware this wasn't a German golden generation, but seeing the team on paper.. Doesn't look great.Woltemade
? - Musiala - Karl
Pavlovic - Bischof
? - Schlotterbeck - Tah - Kimmich
?
Prove me wrong!
If he was as shit as people say he is, no chance. But since Nagelsmann and his staff likely watch the matches, he'll definitely be nominated.
Moreover, Nagelsmann loves reverting expectations. This time around, this might actually work in Wirtz' favor, though.
Relentless
Slot has effectively stopped everyone from running this season. Only one at it is szoboszlai. And Chiesa when he gets a few minutes here and there.
There have imho been way worse squads in the last 10 years.
I've watched quite a lot of their matches and he's been exceedingly average.
I have no skin in the game of the German national team but you make it sound like he has been quietly great and people are just jumping in his back because they don't understand.
The first XI is quite good, I can understand people outside of Germany wouldn't know much of Bischof, Pavlovic and Schloterbeck but they are really good players so have no issue with them. The issue is more with depth.
Also, Brown has been really good this season (though haven't seen them getting trashed by Leipzig and Diomande is on his side so maybe he played poorly) so he should be a shoe-in for the LB spot.
Are Bischof en Pavlovic better than Stiller?
Pavlovic definitely is. Need to see more from Bischof to judge him.
Agree with you there, not much to complain about the first team except maybe the left side with no real prime candidate for LB and LW. RA and CAM imho also have some good backups / interchangeablity. But for the rest, yeah, things aren't looking too bright on the bench.
Bischof depends on his form of the day, I'd say,. Maybe he just needs more playing time, but he looked a bit unremarkable to me so far this year.
But as far as Pavlovic goes I'd rate him well above Stiller, yes.
Pavlovic and Stiller technically play in different roles, Pavlo is more a 6 while Stiller is an 8. As overall players Pavlo is definitely better though.
Between Stiller and Bischof, I think Bischof ha s more upside but isn't getting a lot of playing time at CM because of injuries at Bayern forcing to play more at LB. Stiller is a decent player though and a good option to have.
There are a lot of decent players in that position. Nmecha at Dortmund, Stiller, Goretzka and Stach but none are at the high/world class level. Bischof and Ouedraogo are immensely talented though so hopefully they can get enough minutes to have confidence to start.
But I haven't said once that he's been great so far? I'm simply pointing out that he's not shit. 'Average' on the other hand is something I'd probably agree with, at least over the season as a whole so far.
However, it's pretty obvious that the 'criticism' has developed a dynamic of its own and the question I quoted just shows how far apart the fans' and his coachs' evaluations are. People read how bad he has been and question if he will be nominated for the WC while his actual national coach calls him the most important attacking player in his squad and goes out his way to defend him against what he perceives as unfair criticism.
Benched for the game against Inter.
He’s been absolutely shite, along with Salah, VVD, Konate, Isak.
Hence why Liverpool have had such a terrible start to this season, too many players playing absolutely shite, not ”average” but shite.
I reckon he’s Germany’s punishment for WW2.
No he hasn't. But I respect your opinion, I mean you'd never use different measuring sticks depending on club affiliations, would you?
They definitely deserve something, but this is a bit much.
I've heard of an eye for an eye, but have mercy.
No he hasn't. But I respect your opinion, I mean you'd never use different measuring sticks depending on club affiliations, would you?
Cunha has been absolutely shite.
See how easy that was?
When a team is in form, it’s easier for everyone, of course. But good players or not, Cunha has been shite, just as Wirtz has been shite.
Show us that German measuring stick again and tell me Wirtz hasn’t been shite.
While Cunha has been diabolical so far, his performance vs Liverpool is considerably better than anything Wirtz did in England. I know that wasn't your point, just want to get ahead of people comparing the two
Both would almost certainly look better in an in form and confident team, but Cunha does have the advantage of already looking excellent in the PL in a much worse side.
But all in all he’s been shite and only an extremely biased individual would claim otherwise.