What ist gebrochen
Florian Wirtz | Der Fußballgott | Der Fluch ist gebrochen!
- Thread starter Invictus
- Start date
Isak is the worse signing as his injury record was always abysmal before they made the signing.
Agree with all of that, but one little extra caveat I’d add. Our captain and best player plays in the exact same position; he’s on course to break the assist record and is in the conversation for player of the season. He’s been consistently brilliant from the moment he arrived.
We’ve got the best creative, attacking midfield player in the league, and they just spent £120m on an absolute ghost that’s not fit to lace his boots. Our point of reference and the contrast could not be more stark.
And yet, Bruno has consistently been criticised by the media for this, that and the other.
The focus on Wirtz is of course just down his transfer fee. Pretty obvious. The only PL player that was substantially more expensive was Isak. Wirtz is in that same category as Rice, Grealish, Caicedo and Enzo Fernandez, but he delivers like a £25m player from the Eredivisie. There’s just a massive disconnect in the media because of his transfer fee.
The focus might also be him playing for Liverpool and most feeling Schadenfreude that he is not what he was hyped to be.
Additionally he was really portrait as one of the best if not the best midfielder for years to come. I myself thought he was unbelivable good.
However, right now in this team, with this coach, he is bang average.
I watched most of his games and also watch most right now, while I can see the player we knew from Leverkusen, it is not working at all in Liverpool.
If he would have a smaller price tag to his name, he probably would be benched a fair amount by now.
Very sad to see for him and his career.
Obviously not over yet, but reminds me a bit of Dortmunds Mario Goetze.
Additionally he was really portrait as one of the best if not the best midfielder for years to come. I myself thought he was unbelivable good.
However, right now in this team, with this coach, he is bang average.
I watched most of his games and also watch most right now, while I can see the player we knew from Leverkusen, it is not working at all in Liverpool.
If he would have a smaller price tag to his name, he probably would be benched a fair amount by now.
Very sad to see for him and his career.
Obviously not over yet, but reminds me a bit of Dortmunds Mario Goetze.
He has done nothing in a big PL game. Nothing in Europe when it mattered. He has been an almighty flop in his first season.
To be fair, I don't remember Sancho getting a lot of stick in his first season. Most of the blame was allocated to Ole, Rangnick and our arguably dysfunctional setup. It's only after ETH sent him over to that mental camp in his second season that things started to break loose.
Wirtz is in a similar trajectory and, like Sancho, has his work in Germany to back him up as a good player. Another 6 months of this invisible man gig and I can see everyone hounding him.
Wait. Is this interview implying that he’s turned a corner and is doing well now?
I've seen this argument before and I really fail to see how that's relevant. It's like saying PSG fans are in a better position to criticize underperforming wingers than Tottenham fans because their wingers are amongst the best in the world.
It's also pretty pointless to compare current Bruno to first-year-in-the-league Wirtz. Bruno was even older than Wirtz currently is when he arrived in England a good while ago now, and the revisionism is pretty damn strong if you think he's been "consistently brilliant from the moment he arrived". Even on here there's been plenty of posters who have wanted him gone at different points in his United career, if not for his performances, then for his childish on-field antics.
That’s about Sesko. The poster referenced Sancho.
In fairness it really is a bit strange how a Wirtz thread on a United forum got 164 pages
I don’t think you even remotely understand football rivalry or banter.
Bruno has been consistently good for Utd, and the fact some online fans who get angry at everything and would be criticising Cantona in another era feel differently is not a gotcha. Online message boards are a terrible metric to judge a player.
I feel like several posters did their best to explain why comparing a 120m attacking midfield signing to another attacking midfielder performing well in the same league was useful for discussion, but you just basically ignored all of the points raised.
Why do you always have such a snide tone?
You're right, I understand absolutely nothing at all. Just zero going on in my brain. Football rivalry is too complex for me to grasp.
He's just been the obvious best of a very bad bunch in several seasons imo, but I'll take your word for it.
It's not what's been said, back then and now it sounds like "we are best placed to judge Wirtz' performances because Bruno plays at United". The only apt comparison (and criticism on Wirtz) would be that Bruno has had a way of still looking decent even when United were at their absolute worst, which is currently lacking for Wirtz, but they are not remotely close to being at the same point in their career right now so even that would be quite harsh to me.
And this is definitely not me trying to justify or defend Wirtz' performances by the way, I'll caveat that he simply hasn't shown enough in his debut season and was very likely worse than Bruno at United in his first season (which I can't remember anything of).
Well he has always produced goals and assists, regardless of quality around him, which is the job of an attacking midfielder. That’s why he’s used as a comparison for an extremely expensive player that plays the same position, in the same league, and in this case, for a poorly performing side. I find it bizarre that the comparison needs any explanation at all, particularly when there has been discussion in this very thread about how Wirtz is being let down by his teammates. But again, I’m pretty sure this was all covered the last time this discussion came up.
Fair enough. I don't really care about him or this thread very much, just think it's a bit strange how he is the only Liverpool player that gets shit on. You don't see a Gravenberch thread going on in here after looking like an elite midfielder last season. I guess people weren't a fan of how hyped he was and loving how he turned out to be a lot worse for Liverpool than expected.
It's not when he doesn't take set pieces. He has like 20 corners for Liverpool, and Bruno Fernandes has around 90 for us. That's a lot of "chances" there. You could also look at xA instead of big chances created, where he is 13th, so really not as bad as it's made out to be. If they get a competent manager, he can turn it around because his talent is not in question. At Wirtz' age, Bruno was playing for Sampdoria, so it's not like he's finished or something.
That's not the case at all. There's threads for VVD, Mac Allister, Szoboszlai on here. Create one on Gravenberch if you care so much.
Yeah, there's generally a theme with opposition players that get shat on. It's either they're hyped up as the best in their class or they cost a monumental amount of money. Sometimes both. Wirtz hits both.
And in some cases, they have extremely vehement defenders that antagonise more responses.
I don't care, I just said that I find it strange, just a simple opinion. Mac Allister thread is 16 pages, Wirtz has 165. I get that he cost a lot, but he is not some asshole player who chose the price tag himself.
Nothing out of the extraordinary apart from his first full season and this current season imo, especially for a guy on penalties and all free kicks / corners most of the times. Put Wirtz on penalties and a few extra assists on corners and he hits close to the average of Bruno in his first season which is rightly considered pretty awful by most people.
Yeah and I disagreed with most of those points back then as well, so indeed better to just give it a rest. I'm not trying to shit on Bruno or downplay his performances or impact for United by the way if it comes across that way.
Reminds me of Coutinho at Barca
Thats irrelevant though. It seems quite obvious to me why an extremely hyped player that is one of the most expensive transfers of all time would be scrutinised / mocked more than a mid tier signing.
I would agree with that, but some just seem overly invested in this. @Posh Red made a good point about how Wirtz has so many vehement, aggressive defenders so sometimes it seems like it's more getting back at posters rather than the player himself. Any way, he is playing poorly in relation to his price tag, that's a good thing being a Liverpool player, let's hope all the trash talk doesn't come back to bite us in the ass. Would be typical Liverpool that Wirtz becomes their Bruno next season and for the next 10 years with how much luck they have with transfers.
Yes, and I think also there is the point that he's joined the season after they romped to the title and this season they're way off the pace. Obviously other factors like Salah and VVD dropping off haven't helped but he was meant to come in and lift the level higher and he hasn't even helped maintain it.
Erm what?
Bruno joined in Jan, got 15 G+A in the PL in 14 games and by the end of the season people were already comparing him to De Bruyne who was the best attacking mid in the league.
"Very likely worse" is putting it very mildly, not sure how you couldn't remember his first season given he was phenomenal.
You really need to fact check before typing nonsense.
Bruno has created the most chances in the league since he joined United. He has exceptional assist stats across every season, the only reason he doesn't have even more assists is because of the poor attackers he has had in front of him.
I read someone on this very forum say that we should offer Konate £400k a week. So take some opinions with a pinch, or a bucket, of salt.
And Wirtz was 5th in the league this season in that very category if the poster on the previous page is to be believed. Stats without context mean nothing.
Really bad player.
Fell ill because of being too bad at being a football player. Poor chap
You really are as clueless and dense as your posts make it out to be. Bruno joined us in January 2020 and produced 8 goals and 8 assists in about 1100 minutes in the PL and put us in CL places when we were languishing in mid-table. Next season he produced 18 goals and 14 assists which was his best season up until that point. He has been good to excellent during his time here and is yet to have an "awful season", it is not his fault, that managerial geniuses like Erik ten Hag and Ruben Amorim decided to shoe-horn one of the best 10s in the world in a deeper midfield role as the team lacked control. Even then he has been a creative machine, generating high quality chances year on year.
Brush up your footballing knowledge before dishing terrible takes on a rival forum. And it's rich that you write "I don't want to downplay Bruno's contribution" but couple of paras before shit on him for being "best of a very bad bunch in several seasons". It just makes you sound like a bitter twat but tagline next to your username suggests that staff have let this known to you already.
That was genuinely the best I’ve seen him play today
*Was