Florian Wirtz | Der Fußballgott | Der Fluch ist gebrochen!

Kills me that no one in Germany adresses it: He is just not a winger. It hurs to see him being used like that.
 
He was too tidy ending being risk averse. He must try harder, be more agressive
 
It still makes me angry the difference him and pogba get judged at. Pogbas first season at us he created so much, Wirtz does nothing but Pogba was criticised every week like he should be the best player of all time
 
Mike Smalling said:
Must be nice to have one good season in the Bundesliga and then get a free ride for life.
Click to expand...
It was 3 seasons, just shows how little you know

Anyways, he did his ACL once and that's why he's just not the same player anymore...
 
giorno said:
It was 3 seasons, just shows how little you know

Anyways, he did his ACL once and that's why he's just not the same player anymore...
Click to expand...
What? Yeah, he had a brilliant season before he tore his ACL but he then was Leverkusens undisputed best player in their undefeated season AFTER he came back from the ACL. He then backed that up with another Bundesliga POTY season making it two in a row. So at 22 he had 3 outstanding seasons, two of which came after he tore his ACL.

I don't even think he had a bad game yesterday. The stats back it up. It's definitely true he's not winning games on his own at the moment and dragging the team, which is something people would expect when considering the potential he has shown, the hype around him and the transfer fee that was paid for him.

I'm still pretty confident he'll come good. If not at Liverpool then somewhere else. Look at Dembele who struggled at PSG but then blossomed under Enrique. Maybe it can already happen under Iraola next season.
 
ForEverEleven said:
Kills me that no one in Germany adresses it: He is just not a winger. It hurs to see him being used like that.
Click to expand...
He can be a great player even on the wing. I think he's just not at his best at the moment. The Wirtz of old was amazing in the half spaces between LW and AM and he can absolutely play there with Brown behind him. I think his form is just not at his peak level atm. Let's see how the rest of the tournament goes.
 
dinostar77 said:
BBC gossip saying Alonso wants him at Chelsea if Enzo leaves. Wonder if Liverpool would cut their losses if they had the chance...
Click to expand...
Chelsea could have a real gem in their hands. They can turn this technically brilliant but under performing passenger, whom no other club would touch, into a star - just like they did with Felix. Their transfer strategy is genius level.
 
jadajos said:
What? Yeah, he had a brilliant season before he tore his ACL but he then was Leverkusens undisputed best player in their undefeated season AFTER he came back from the ACL. He then backed that up with another Bundesliga POTY season making it two in a row. So at 22 he had 3 outstanding seasons, two of which came after he tore his ACL.
Click to expand...
It's called delayed reaction. He's so good he managed to stall the effects of the injury for 2 years!
 
ForEverEleven said:
Kills me that no one in Germany adresses it: He is just not a winger. It hurs to see him being used like that.
Click to expand...
It's just not a new discussion but the long standing question how to fit Wirtz and Musiala together.
 
He did absolutely nothing yesterday. In a game we’re we needed someone to take matters into their hands. Disappointing from him.
 
HTG said:
He did absolutely nothing yesterday. In a game we’re we needed someone to take matters into their hands. Disappointing from him.
Click to expand...
When has he ever? Other than friendlies that is

At the euros it was mostly the same story. He scored a couple goals, which partially masked the fact that otherwise he wasn't doing much more than keep things moving. And i thought he looked terrible in tight spaces, too

If Brown scored yesterday he would have had an assist btw. Thing is, that's the kind of player he is I think. A good player, but not a star. If you need him to be a difference maker, you're in trouble
 
giorno said:
When has he ever? Other than friendlies that is

At the euros it was mostly the same story. He scored a couple goals, which partially masked the fact that otherwise he wasn't doing much more than keep things moving. And i thought he looked terrible in tight spaces, too
Click to expand...
Which is the reasons I was hesitant in regards to the fee. He hides away in important games or when the situation gets tough.
 
I saw Bellingham and Foden games from Musiala and Wirtz last night.

I've seen both duos link-up well at times for their countries, but when the going got tough, you'd have Bellingham and Musiala forcing the issue whilst Foden and Wirtz show some nice technical ability here and there but are on the periphery of the game in general. Too happy doing too little.
 
dinostar77 said:
German Van Der Beek
Click to expand...
I said this back in September:
Scotty Doesn't Know said:
A 116m Van De Beek.
Click to expand...

Honestly, it was so clear from his first few games at Liverpool that he was never going to contribute enough. The only attacking midfielders who thrive in the Premier League are hard-working runners (Bruno, Szoboszlai, Gibbs-White) or talismanic mavericks (Cherki, Bruno, pre-injury Palmer). Wirtz is neither. He can do a nice touch and cushioned 5 yard pass, but he lacks the ability to grab the game by the scruff of the neck.
 
Scotty Doesn't Know said:
I said this back in September:


Honestly, it was so clear from his first few games at Liverpool that he was never going to contribute enough. The only attacking midfielders who thrive in the Premier League are hard-working runners (Bruno, Szoboszlai, Gibbs-White) or talismanic mavericks (Cherki, Bruno, pre-injury Palmer). Wirtz is neither. He can do a nice touch and cushioned 5 yard pass, but he lacks the ability to grab the game by the scruff of the neck.
Click to expand...
I think the likes of him and VDB are "system players" who thrive in the right system. Also they work in a league where they have more time on the ball. If Wirtz was playing in Spain, I think he'd be much more successful.

Even for Germany though, I don't think it's quite working at this tournament, especially with musiala there as well.

It would be interesting to see a spiderweb of Wirtz at leverkusen and now at Liverpool to see how much he has dropped off
 
dinostar77 said:
Even for Germany though, I don't think it's quite working at this tournament, especially with musiala there as well.
Click to expand...
That's why many Bayern were actually happy he went to Liverpool for that money.
Both, Musiala and Wirtz, are best in the center. I can't remember Wirtz having a good game for Germany playing on the wings.
Maybe Nagelsmann could play him in Musiala's position against Ecuador and give Musiala a rest. He just isn't ready to play his best football after his injury yet.
 
I just think if one of Musiala or Wirtz has to be on the wing, it should be Musiala given his profile. Wirtz' strengths just get so limited playing out there.
 
dinostar77 said:
I think the likes of him and VDB are "system players" who thrive in the right system. Also they work in a league where they have more time on the ball. If Wirtz was playing in Spain, I think he'd be much more successful.

Even for Germany though, I don't think it's quite working at this tournament, especially with musiala there as well.

It would be interesting to see a spiderweb of Wirtz at leverkusen and now at Liverpool to see how much he has dropped off
Click to expand...
It's not a spiderweb, but it's more detailed:



https://www.squawka.com/en/comparison-matrix/?compare=uevfa8DzaKhWvYIldFR-T

So basically he's on the ball less and way more conservative and risk averse when he does have it: he has a lower take on success and pass success rate at Leverkusen but way more take ons succeeded. That tells you he was allowed to take way more risks at Leverkusen (who played a back 3 plus double pivot behind him tbf). Interestingly more chances created at Liverpool, but probably lower quality.

Similar ground duel success (in the tough premier League) but a lot more duels contested overall at Leverkusen. Possession lost and times tackled per 90 way down at Liverpool. So again, less risk taking in England (or under Slot?).

I think it paints a pretty clear picture that he's been used very conservatively. And Slot had Liverpool very passive off the ball last season, I think. So that's how you get to all risk taking numbers going down: defensive actions, through balls, times tackled, times possession lost, etc. but pass success and dribble success and chance creation going up.

I think it will be very interesting under Iraola next season. I'd expect quite a few of those numbers to flip again. Tackled more often, lower pass and dribble success rate. But better output in terms of goal contributions and a lot more takeon attempts per 90, more defensive duels contested etc.
 
He is so shit, makes me happy Liverpool spent so much on him, that they are forced to play him every week to try and find some kind of form, but it is just a waste.
 
stefan92 said:
It's just not a new discussion but the long standing question how to fit Wirtz and Musiala together.
Click to expand...
I thought wirtz was poor at the euros, seemed like he was given a by, and escaped from criticism. Then from what I seen at Liverpool didn't suprise me. I know it's simplistic but just what I seen
 
jadajos said:
It's not a spiderweb, but it's more detailed:



https://www.squawka.com/en/comparison-matrix/?compare=uevfa8DzaKhWvYIldFR-T

So basically he's on the ball less and way more conservative and risk averse when he does have it: he has a lower take on success and pass success rate at Leverkusen but way more take ons succeeded. That tells you he was allowed to take way more risks at Leverkusen (who played a back 3 plus double pivot behind him tbf). Interestingly more chances created at Liverpool, but probably lower quality.

Similar ground duel success (in the tough premier League) but a lot more duels contested overall at Leverkusen. Possession lost and times tackled per 90 way down at Liverpool. So again, less risk taking in England (or under Slot?).

I think it paints a pretty clear picture that he's been used very conservatively. And Slot had Liverpool very passive off the ball last season, I think. So that's how you get to all risk taking numbers going down: defensive actions, through balls, times tackled, times possession lost, etc. but pass success and dribble success and chance creation going up.

I think it will be very interesting under Iraola next season. I'd expect quite a few of those numbers to flip again. Tackled more often, lower pass and dribble success rate. But better output in terms of goal contributions and a lot more takeon attempts per 90, more defensive duels contested etc.
Click to expand...

I think that he may suffer from the same ill-fate that Donny did - the technical ability is there, but there simply isn't enough athleticism to hold off or get away from defenders. Wirtz is downright slow, but he doesn't move as slickly as Mata or energetic as Silva, the strength of a Cazorla, so he may well try more take-ons, and they may even be successful, but is he able to get away from his defender to make something out of it? I doubt it, and I really hope I'm not going to be proven wrong here.
 
Rossa said:
I think that he may suffer from the same ill-fate that Donny did - the technical ability is there, but there simply isn't enough athleticism to hold off or get away from defenders. Wirtz is downright slow, but he doesn't move as slickly as Mata or energetic as Silva, the strength of a Cazorla, so he may well try more take-ons, and they may even be successful, but is he able to get away from his defender to make something out of it? I doubt it, and I really hope I'm not going to be proven wrong here.
Click to expand...
He’s absolutely powderpuff physically. No height, no strength, no pace, no real engine. Can’t get away with that in the Premier League right now.

Will be interesting to see how the season unfolds for him. Iraola’s football is much closer to Klopp’s and he’s just not a stylistic fit for it. Can see him starting the season but slowly dropping down to squad player status before Christmas amid a slew of “what to do with Wirtz?” think pieces.
 
There was one point in the game when they were 1-0 down where he got it deep, tried to clip it into the striker and it was very poor ball but luckily it bounced back to him, he then tried to keep it safe and play it outwide and again just hit it straight to an Ivory Coast player.

He's a nothing player who will have a few good moments and nothing more.
 
He actually finished the season well for us, I can see him kicking on and having a good season
 
Pascal Quiff said:
He actually finished the season well for us, I can see him kicking on and having a good season
Click to expand...
For Liverpool fanbase he will be their Hojlund or Antony. Player for who fans don't want to admit that he is not worth of money so will start nitpicking and go crazy about some good pass, goal or a good game.
 
Last edited:
I think he will do well under Iraola. He is quite a good fit for the high pressing 10 that is almost like a second striker. He doesn’t have the pace to play out wide, but I think he will be a good fit popping around in their aggressive press and finding pockets of space.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.