Florian Wirtz | Der Fußballgott | Der Fluch ist gebrochen!

I don't think it's a physicality thing at Liverpool, at least not primarily. He's not THAT lacking there and there are too many that still do well in England in attacking roles without being athletic monsters, or even all that impressive overall physically, outside of a standout attribute or two, for it to be simplified down to such a thing. I've never thought Bruno or De Bruyne were exactly athletic specimens, neither would have made it if you absolutely needed a widely impressive physical profile to make it as an AM in the league. Or Silva, Cazorla, Gundogan, etc....plenty of successes for bigger clubs that did so while having a physical profile not much more impressive than you'll find at most average talents in a mid-table/bottom half club.

There's a bunch of stuff going on (including the Premier league being a stronger one of course) but one thing that often get ignored is the mental pressure of doing well at top level football. It could well be that in terms of looking like a potential great (which he did manage at Leverkusen) he only has that in him within a certain comfort zone, a large part of which will be mental. Leverkusen was pretty much a hometown club for him was it not? It's possible he would have disappointed at Bayern as well, though that would have been an easier transition. The price tag doesn't help with this side at all. I'd also say a certain lack of bravery and softness is evident in his play, which isn't really coming from not being physically talented enough for the league, but looks more confidence related to me, or simply who he is as a player.
 
Demyanenko_square_jaw said:
I've never thought Bruno or De Bruyne were exactly athletic specimens,
Click to expand...
I've seen De Bruyne track down, disposses and blow away Camavinga, outrun and outmuscle Valverde over 40 yards and then flatten Rudiger, all within the same play, running 90 yards both directions, half with the ball

Whatever drugs they gave him at City turned him into a beast
 
Demyanenko_square_jaw said:
I don't think it's a physicality thing at Liverpool, at least not primarily. He's not THAT lacking there and there are too many that still do well in England in attacking roles without being athletic monsters, or even all that impressive overall physically, outside of a standout attribute or two, for it to be simplified down to such a thing. I've never thought Bruno or De Bruyne were exactly athletic specimens, neither would have made it if you absolutely needed a widely impressive physical profile to make it as an AM in the league. Or Silva, Cazorla, Gundogan, etc....plenty of successes for bigger clubs that did so while having a physical profile not much more impressive than you'll find at most average talents in a mid-table/bottom half club.

There's a bunch of stuff going on (including the Premier league being a stronger one of course) but one thing that often get ignored is the mental pressure of doing well at top level football. It could well be that in terms of looking like a potential great (which he did manage at Leverkusen) he only has that in him within a certain comfort zone, a large part of which will be mental. Leverkusen was pretty much a hometown club for him was it not? It's possible he would have disappointed at Bayern as well, though that would have been an easier transition. The price tag doesn't help with this side at all. I'd also say a certain lack of bravery and softness is evident in his play, which isn't really coming from not being physically talented enough for the league, but looks more confidence related to me, or simply who he is as a player.
Click to expand...
De Bruyne definitely was. Bruno, not so much.
 
How is Bruno not an athletic specimen? He runs and presses all day and is never injured.
 
Bruno is one helluva athlete, unless you don’t consider marathon runners athletes.

De Bruyne was deceptively fast and strong. Cazorla was slow but very strong!

Wirtz is not athletic, but more importantly, he lacks tenacity, urgency and intensity.
 
I think Liverpool frontline will come into life next season. The quality is there and I have a feeling Iraola can unlock it.

Isak,Ekitike,Writz on top of this few new signings might work well for them
 
John Barnes was on about his game intelligence the other day. I'm not seeing it one bit, just looks lost most games for me.
 
Bobby_2024 said:
I think Liverpool frontline will come into life next season. The quality is there and I have a feeling Iraola can unlock it.

Isak,Ekitike,Writz on top of this few new signings might work well for them
Click to expand...
The problem is fitting them all into the team. Ekitike had a decent enough season till he got injured. But how do you fit him and Isak into the same team?

Also when they play Wirtz as a 10/CAM they give up the hardworking 3 man CM that brought them their success under Klopp.
 
giorno said:
I've seen De Bruyne track down, disposses and blow away Camavinga, outrun and outmuscle Valverde over 40 yards and then flatten Rudiger, all within the same play, running 90 yards both directions, half with the ball

Whatever drugs they gave him at City turned him into a beast
Click to expand...

He definitely had some formidable strength about him ...hard to stop if he was able to get a run going (with or without the ball), and the football brain to exploit that very well, so I'd definitely put him above a guy like Wirtz physically, but his overall speed ( short distances and acceleration in particular) and agility was always pretty average to decent by successful top-league player standards imo, eventually verging on the slow if he was out of form, or during his last years at city. Tons of lesser players can match him in those regards, so while I wouldn't say he was lacking physically at all, I definitely wouldn't put him as an impressive or notable all-round athlete type of player, not nearly to the extent you often see folk say you need to be to excel in England in an AM or wide role.

I'm pretty sure if he had happened not to fit in at City, there would have been a quite a lot of wrongly simplifying it down to "he's too slow/doesn't have the speed or agility over the first three or four yards for the league" sort of opinions going around.
 
Bobby_2024 said:
I think Liverpool frontline will come into life next season. The quality is there and I have a feeling Iraola can unlock it.

Isak,Ekitike,Writz on top of this few new signings might work well for them
Click to expand...

I don't think Ekitike will be a significant part of the equation this season. An achilles tear is a very serious injury. Some players never regain their former explosiveness and level (Hudson-Odoi, Loftus-Cheek, Spinazzola), others do eventually but only after 1-2 years. Ekitike will probably be back playing in January but likely will be eased back in slowly. Liverpool will realistically just hope that he's ready to contribute at his former level and intensity in 27-28.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Isak. Iraola's Bournemouth teams relied on strikers that were non-stop runners and pressing monsters, first Solanke and then Evanilson. Does Isak have that in him? Do his groin and hamstrings have that in them? Not sure.

For me, the system fits Wirtz very well, who assumedly would be the 10/second striker in a role similar to Kroupi. But whether he can step up his level again in the PL is anybody's guess.
 
Last edited:
Demyanenko_square_jaw said:
He definitely had some formidable strength about him ...hard to stop if he was able to get a run going (with or without the ball), and the football brain to exploit that very well, so I'd definitely put him above a guy like Wirtz physically, but his overall speed ( short distances and acceleration in particular) and agility was always pretty average to decent by successful top-league player standards imo, eventually verging on the slow if he was out of form, or during his last years at city.
Click to expand...
Agree, but then his game didn't rely on those qualities

His pace over long distances was great though. Maybe didn't have crazy top speed, but once he reached it he could keep it up over long sprints

Part of the problem for Wirtz I think is that agility, speed and burst were key components of his game in germany, and in england those traits went from elite to average. So currently he kinda needs to relearn how to play, in a way
 
Fortitude said:
Having an awful World Cup to go with an awful club campaign.

He’s fallen off a cliff.
Click to expand...

I was thinking about second before his assist. He plays with zero spontaneity, his confidence is totally shot. Two years ago many of the touches he gets around the box would have been confident shots or creative passes but now he looks for the "perfect" sequence.
 
JPRouve said:
I was thinking about second before his assist. He plays with zero spontaneity, his confidence is totally shot. Two years ago many of the touches he gets around the box would have been confident shots or creative passes but now he looks for the "perfect" sequence.
Click to expand...
Yes. He looks absolutely devoid of the verve he used to have. Confidence and belief in his ability is on the floor. I was thinking about the ride he’s been on from hero of Leverkusen and the anointed one, to what he is now. It’s like Stephen King got a hold of the script.
 
thegregster said:
The problem is fitting them all into the team. Ekitike had a decent enough season till he got injured. But how do you fit him and Isak into the same team?

Also when they play Wirtz as a 10/CAM they give up the hardworking 3 man CM that brought them their success under Klopp.
Click to expand...
That was klopps tactics though, they can't just try and recreate that.
 
He’s completely failing to take over the game in any meaningful way. Considering his ability and status, I expect him to at least try to produce something in attack. But he is just a passenger, happy to enjoy the nice view. Extremely disappointing.
 
thegregster said:
The problem is fitting them all into the team. Ekitike had a decent enough season till he got injured. But how do you fit him and Isak into the same team?

Also when they play Wirtz as a 10/CAM they give up the hardworking 3 man CM that brought them their success under Klopp.
Click to expand...

The problem would be with Gakpo but France use Ekitike like Cavani used to play at PSG on the left wing as an inside forward and he has been excellent.
 
In the first half he was by far our best player yesterday, the assist he pulled off was also excellent technically. Doesnt help that the whole team seems to be a mess.
 
HTG said:
He’s completely failing to take over the game in any meaningful way. Considering his ability and status, I expect him to at least try to produce something in attack. But he is just a passenger, happy to enjoy the nice view. Extremely disappointing.
Click to expand...
How much has he been impacted by the knee injury he sustained?
 
I thought he played pretty well yesterday but I feel like he’s one of those players that need everything around him to be perfect to really shine.
 
I think if you put him in one of the great German sides, he'd fit like a glove and absolutely pull his weight.

I'm worried that he has Keita syndrome though. That he'll only ever play to the level of his teammates on any given day.

He had a two month run last season that suggested more, where it was basically only him and Ekitike doing anything good.

He's very Smicer so far though.
 
He was like this at the euros too, but he scored a couple goals there, which obviously elevated his overall performance

But, yeah. I think this is just the player he is honestly
 
116m for a passenger is an insane waste of money. He makes the top 5 worst transfers in Premier League history. Just below Sancho and Mudryk, but he's an even worse signing than Antony when you factor in the fee.
 
He's been shocking so far in every game.

Might have fitted in best in a softer league where it's not as physical.
 
He just fannies around not doing much of anything.

It sometimes looks quite nice but nothing happens. All show and no go
 
There is an expectation for him and Musiala to turn up at the WC for Germany from now on, as the Ecuador showing was nothing. It might be enough for Paraguay, but they have to show their class against France, otherwise they are out and the criticism will start pouring in.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Yeah, on the bench.

He's just not very good.
Click to expand...
Nah. He’s very very talented. But he lacks something in the mental department at this point. He can’t lift a game looking to him to lift it.
 
B20 said:
Nah. He’s very very talented. But he lacks something in the mental department at this point. He can’t lift a game looking to him to lift it.
Click to expand...
Talented at doing what exactly? He has the same G/A in the PL as Dorgu, having played 900 minutes more than him.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.