Wonder if he'll follow Alonso to Madrid?
Florian Wirtz | Der Fußballgott | Der Fluch ist gebrochen!
- Thread starter Invictus
- Start date
Hold on for £130m.
Then Ten Hag cleans out all the madness he bought for us.
Wirtz flops, the players actually perform well in that lesser league, we make great signings and everyone wins.
How much?
Guler, Bellingham, Mastantuono are already there in his position.
Still far more proven than the ones I mentioned at the times of their move
He'll also will arrived to a team with a great mid to support him. The only thing I don't get of Liverpool it's not seeking a real target man, striker.
PD: What I do feel with him it's that he doesn't look to me particulary pacey or with a great second march. Particulary in the Aleti game that there was a lot of intensity, he struggled at times with that. It would be fantastic given his talent to had that in his bag too. Maybe I've watched his late games with him a tad tired, dunno, I didn't watch him as much as the prior season this last one.
He's definitely either on his last legs after a long season or afraid of an injury at the moment. It will do him good that Liverpool isn't playing the CWC. That said, he isn't as explosive as, say Doku or somebody like that but he's probably a 7/10 in terms of both acceleration and end pace. Has been clocked >35 km/h a couple of times.
Yea. I don't think Wirtz wants to join Bayern so probably won't be that he pushes to a move there if Liverpool can't strike a deal.
I don’t think it’s been made clear, but the latest bid went in about a week ago, and was rejected then as well.
The media are a bit slow and all over the place with what’s happening on it.
If it’s getting done, it’ll happen in the next couple of days.
The media are a bit slow and all over the place with what’s happening on it.
If it’s getting done, it’ll happen in the next couple of days.
How's his dribbling ? He doesn't seem to excel at it to say the least.
Normally he is very good with the ball at his feet 1 v 1. Wonderful player to watch.
Will evaporate in the PL
Don’t rate him and that’s not because Liverpool are signing him. He just doesn’t stand out to me as a top top player. Honestly don’t understand why people think he’d be the best player in the league. Somebody said he’s future ballon d’or winner. If that’s what people genuinely think of him then they should be prepared for the massive disappointment. He’ll flop and I’m pretty sure of that.
Obviously I hope you're right. However, it's a bold statement to say the least. He's clearly a very talented player coming to a club who are already champions and who are already the most prolific attack in the league. Be hard to imagine he won't do well. He doesn't have to be the star man either, although his price may weigh on him.
Where will he play? That will be the beginning of the problem for him and Liverpool. He won't live up to that price.
Slot has obviously had a huge role in this signing and - according to accounts from journos - has been instrumental in putting Liverpool ahead of Bayern. Wirtz was reportedly sold on Slot’s vision for his role in the side, which you would assume is a ‘10’ role.
I don’t think there’ll be ambiguity about where he’ll play and fans (rivals or otherwise) need not worry about it as it’s Slot’s job and he’s proven to be an excellent coach in his career so far.
He’s expensive - not my money - but he’s excelled in Germany and is rated by Liverpool who have a strong transfer track record on the whole.
I don’t think there’ll be ambiguity about where he’ll play and fans (rivals or otherwise) need not worry about it as it’s Slot’s job and he’s proven to be an excellent coach in his career so far.
He’s expensive - not my money - but he’s excelled in Germany and is rated by Liverpool who have a strong transfer track record on the whole.
£120m. He's the best thing since sliced bread, I'll tell ya.
Can we just talk about the absolute bias in the media for reporting transfer fees, especially when it comes to Liverpool.
Every time i've seen theirs reported they are in GBP. Yet every time ours are reported they're usually in euros to make it look higher. Hell, the bbc gossip column today is a great example:
Liverpool are set to make a final offer worth £118m, inclusive of add-ons, for Germany attacking midfielder Florian Wirtz, 22, after Bayer Leverkusen rejected a £113m bid.
Now let's look at how they report transfer feeds for the rest on the same page: Chelsea's offer of 35m euros, Chelsea are prepared to pay AC Milan up to 15m euros etc
Every time i've seen theirs reported they are in GBP. Yet every time ours are reported they're usually in euros to make it look higher. Hell, the bbc gossip column today is a great example:
Liverpool are set to make a final offer worth £118m, inclusive of add-ons, for Germany attacking midfielder Florian Wirtz, 22, after Bayer Leverkusen rejected a £113m bid.
Now let's look at how they report transfer feeds for the rest on the same page: Chelsea's offer of 35m euros, Chelsea are prepared to pay AC Milan up to 15m euros etc
Yeah I can see where you are coming from and flop is a very strong word which I used. He might do well based on how well oiled Liverpool currently are but I don’t think he’d live up to his price tag at all. Having said that, I hope Leverkusen rinse them even more.
Why would that be a problem? Szoboszlai play's the most further forward of our midfielders and it sounds like Wirtz will simply fit in there?
Szoboszlai has told Slot that he thinks he's more of an 8 than a 10 anyway. LFC looked leggy in midfield as the season went on last season. Szoboslai/Grav/Mac/Jones.....and Wirtz as the 10, with Szobo in there if necessary for games.
You need options to be the best. City had KDB/Foden/Alvarez all capable of playing there or other places. It's no biggy.
The CL vs PSG showed LFC they need more energy in midfield at that stage in the season, so more rotation will be necessary.
Liverpool's article is a daily mail piece.
Chelseas Gittens piece is Sky Germany (Germany operate in Euros). The last one is Kaveh the clueless, so if you wanna cry about him, do it.
See all the German outlets reporting Wirtz, they report in Euros, HOW DARE THEY! Conspiracy!!!
There were also a lot of articles about Nunez's 85m fee when he signed despite this being in Euros and ignoring the addons that would have raised it above the initial £65m fee.
More broadly, there is an odd obsession with transfer fees that can be used in either direction. Some fans live off transfer news and only seem sated if their side are in for a player with a huge fee - I've seen this amongst Liverpool fans who were obsessed with the massive Caicedo offer but seemed less excited with the Mac Allister deal as that was relatively cheap, despite Mac Allister being a great buy.
On the flip side, transfer fees are used as a stick to beat rivals - as we've seen in this thread - Wirtz's proposed price is up for debate and criticism. Setting him up as a flop before he arrives as 'he'll never live up to the fee'. At £120m(ish) I am not sure what Wirtz could do to justify the price if setting it against certain metrics of success. If Liverpool win the league again next season but get knocked out early in the CL will the signing be a waste of money or proof that Liverpool acted from a position of strength and won big again? It could be spun either way depending on your point off view and biases.
My conclusion is that the fee - although important - isn't a huge concern once he's playing every week. If Liverpool are winning games with him in the side and challenging for big honours then I assume Slot will be satisfied overall. He's joining a successful team so sustaining success is the main focus and objective.
I'm already very curious what idea Slot pitched to Wirtz that impressed him that much and for what Liverpool is willing to pay the reported amount of money. I'm taking a guess now but I have the feeling it we will see him as a false 9 a lot. Wirtz' work against the ball in that position is fantastic and when you force the opponent into a turnover of possession high up the pitch he's immediately in the perfect position to receive the ball between the lines and play through passes to the quick runners who flank him. And when the opponent is parking the bus, he can drop into the left half spaces or even the left touchline to start his dribbles, play passes into the penalty area or whipped crosses to the far post as he did with us. He could rotate with Gakpo in such cases who might be more of a threat in the box with his physicality and directness. He had a very successful partnership for us with Boniface who I'd see as a similar type of player.
uh, I was thinking they are stacked enough upfront without breaking the bank for a good yet not-that-othewordly-good addition? Salah, Gakpo, Diaz, Jota + 2 fringe players if Nunez goes (their 5th pick in line, who will still do wonders anywhere else if a number of bad misses are excused)
Good stuff 
Hopefully he flops after all of this if he does end up going to Liverpool
Hopefully he flops after all of this if he does end up going to Liverpool
"I'm not Kompany".
If it’s United, They’ll magically do a 1 for 1 euros to pound conversion and add in all the fees and add ons, ignoring the fact that we are unlikely to make them if it’s tagged to team performance too.
Yup, this is the most consistent part of the Bundesliga to PL transition. Its a lot harder to dribble and do take ons in the PL and almost every player who has made the transition has seen their dribbling stats collapse. Sancho is the most obvious example but guys like Leon Bailey and Moussa Diaby were also big Bundesliga dribblers who couldn't do it a nearly the same rate in the PL. Even players you wouldn't associate with dribbling like Szoboszlai, Havertz, and Nkunku actually had a lot of take ons in the Bundesliga and then that disappeared almost completely from their game in the PL.
Wirtz has enough in his game to adapt but that's going to be a big part of his challenge. He has been one of the most prolific dribblers in the Bundesliga over the last two years (although not with a very high success rate) and in the PL he's not going to be able to rely on that as much.
Remember watching Sancho on loan at Dortmund and he usually had a free run at the full back. The amount of space was absurd.
Yeah, he averaged 89 successful take ons per season at Dortmund over his three years at Bortmund, succeeding 57% of the time. Those are better numbers than Wirtz. In the three seasons he has played in the PL he has averaged about 41 successful take ons succeeding 47% of the time. He has played slightly less minutes per season in the PL but basically he has been much less successful at his dribbles despite attempting them much less often. And you see the same story with almost every player moving from Bundesliga to PL.
Leon Bailey in his last season in the Bundesliga had 74 successful take ons completed at 54%. In his first full season in the PL he had 41 completed at 37%. Nkunku had a season in the Bundesliga with 66 successful take ons (one of the top dribblers that season) completed at 67%. In the PL over his two years he has 12 successful take ons from 35 attempts...
The players most consistently successful at dribbling in the PL are either lightning quick like Doku or a combination of quick and very powerful so they can really ride challenges like Saka, Kudus, Eze, Rogers. I don't think Wirtz really fits either profile.
In Klopp's days, Liverpool played with two number 8s for their pressing and counterpressing, featuring Henderson and Wijnaldum. It seems Slot continued that tradition with McAllister and Sobozlai.
Klopp also brought in Tiago, an attacking midfielder more of a No. 10, to add a bit of creativity, but it did not work out. It seems Slot might follow the same route by signing Wirtz. He might be breaking
a midfield that worked so well and 100 Million ? Wow.
Klopp also brought in Tiago, an attacking midfielder more of a No. 10, to add a bit of creativity, but it did not work out. It seems Slot might follow the same route by signing Wirtz. He might be breaking
a midfield that worked so well and 100 Million ? Wow.
Is this the transfer where Liverpool jump the shark and start down our road of paying too much money for and to players that aren't dead certs in the PL? I'm going to say definitely.
Thiago isn't a 10. He's an 8 too. He plays much deeper than a 10 does.
Uh oh @Powderfinger, Florian's agent has seen your post and isn't happy with it! You're in trouble now.
And “We don’t have Musiala playing your position“.
Wirtz isnt primarily a dribbler and is a completely different player in every sense than Bailey and Diaby. Trust me, I watched all 3 of them for my club.
Let’s be generous, he can have Rashy, Onana and Antony for the 126m Wirtz fee. Money well spent.
Wirtz isnt primarily a dribbler and is a completely different player in every sense than Bailey and Diaby. Trust me, I watched all 3 of them for my club.
He has much more to his game but dribbling is clearly a big part. He had more successful take ons than any other Bundesliga player last season and only Gittens attempted more. He'll probably have to dribble much less and lean into the other parts of his game more heavily - passing, combining, running off the ball - in the PL.
I mean David Silva was a pretty decent dribbler in this league, but he was more an evasive dribbler in tight spaces rather than pacey dribbling into space or down the wing like some of those guys you mentioned.
It's an interesting point though. I think he'll be fine personally. He's always been a technically and physically sound player and he won't lose that.
Looks distinctly underwhelming without Salah.