Florian Wirtz | Der Fußballgott | Der Fluch ist gebrochen!

Can we just talk about the absolute bias in the media for reporting transfer fees, especially when it comes to Liverpool.

Every time i've seen theirs reported they are in GBP. Yet every time ours are reported they're usually in euros to make it look higher. Hell, the bbc gossip column today is a great example:

Liverpool are set to make a final offer worth £118m, inclusive of add-ons, for Germany attacking midfielder Florian Wirtz, 22, after Bayer Leverkusen rejected a £113m bid.

Now let's look at how they report transfer feeds for the rest on the same page: Chelsea's offer of 35m euros, Chelsea are prepared to pay AC Milan up to 15m euros etc

BBC is just collating gossip. The page is even called gossip.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/ckg468g4w9do

All the fees quoted in Euros also have a GBP translation.

I expect they just quote the source, and then update when the work experience lad comes in.
 
I mean David Silva was a pretty decent dribbler in this league, but he was more an evasive dribbler in tight spaces rather than pacey dribbling into space or down the wing like some of those guys you mentioned.

It's an interesting point though. I think he'll be fine personally. He's always been a technically and physically sound player and he won't lose that.

David Silva might be a good comp. I'm not saying that I think Wirtz will fail in the PL - if I had to guess he'll be a very good player - just that he'll have to lean into other parts of his game and probably be more of a creative passer and a guy that looks to combine with others in order to open up space for his shots than a player frequently capable of creating danger on his own by dribbling.
 
126m :lol:

Fair play to Leverkusen if they manage to get that much for him. Crazy amount of money
 
Yup, this is the most consistent part of the Bundesliga to PL transition. Its a lot harder to dribble and do take ons in the PL and almost every player who has made the transition has seen their dribbling stats collapse. Sancho is the most obvious example but guys like Leon Bailey and Moussa Diaby were also big Bundesliga dribblers who couldn't do it a nearly the same rate in the PL. Even players you wouldn't associate with dribbling like Szoboszlai, Havertz, and Nkunku actually had a lot of take ons in the Bundesliga and then that disappeared almost completely from their game in the PL.

Wirtz has enough in his game to adapt but that's going to be a big part of his challenge. He has been one of the most prolific dribblers in the Bundesliga over the last two years (although not with a very high success rate) and in the PL he's not going to be able to rely on that as much.

Tactics play a big role as well as all those players are moving to bigger teams that play against low blocks more often than they would at their previous clubs. This would be true for any signing, regardless of which league they come from.

Grealish went from 4.2 dribbles per game at Villa to 2.4 at City.
 
Tactics play a big role as well as all those players are moving to bigger teams that play against low blocks more often than they would at their previous clubs. This would be true for any signing, regardless of which league they come from.

Grealish went from 4.2 dribbles per game at Villa to 2.4 at City.

Good point. I agree that may be a contributing factor, for at least some of the players. I'm not so sure its about the size of the clubs but the Bundesliga is more open in general and the more space you have the easier it is to dribble opponents.
 
Yeah, he averaged 89 successful take ons per season at Dortmund over his three years at Bortmund, succeeding 57% of the time. Those are better numbers than Wirtz. In the three seasons he has played in the PL he has averaged about 41 successful take ons succeeding 47% of the time. He has played slightly less minutes per season in the PL but basically he has been much less successful at his dribbles despite attempting them much less often. And you see the same story with almost every player moving from Bundesliga to PL.

Leon Bailey in his last season in the Bundesliga had 74 successful take ons completed at 54%. In his first full season in the PL he had 41 completed at 37%. Nkunku had a season in the Bundesliga with 66 successful take ons (one of the top dribblers that season) completed at 67%. In the PL over his two years he has 12 successful take ons from 35 attempts...

The players most consistently successful at dribbling in the PL are either lightning quick like Doku or a combination of quick and very powerful so they can really ride challenges like Saka, Kudus, Eze, Rogers. I don't think Wirtz really fits either profile.

It might be the case that both culture and more lenient refereeing are incentives for EPL clubs to sign especially physical footballers but those aren't some kind of lab grown super soldiers but slightly more athletic than the average across the top leagues. That is simply down to sports science and the law of diminishing returns.

And even more importantly, physicality doesn't even help you that much. If you rush at an opponent who has the ball, you give away the space you vacate while doing so and if he has easy passing options, that is quickly exploited and all your physicality earns you nothing. That is the reason why across all top leagues, the players tend to be less physical the higher you move up the table. They still are athletic, sure, but rather in a Bernardo Silva fashion where they can cover lots of ground and change directions quickly to hold up the pressure on the defense and minimize the ball recovery time.

So the reason why physical dribblers work better for United and the likes is that you allow the opponent to isolate your players. And then, the lenient refereeing means that you need pace and strength to hold off opponengs who are allowed to wrestle you. But if you provide the player on the ball options - which is the key principle of positional play used by Guardiola and Slot - then charging at him is tactical suicide.

This is the reason why top level football sometimes seems so slow. If you are playing against good opponents, you can't give away space because they will punish you for that. And it is the reason why Wirtz shined so much under Alonso and was able to constantly embarass some of Bundesliga's most physical defenders such as Dayot Upamecano or Victor Orban who would belong to the most athletic defenders in England as well.

Among English fans, physicality often seems like a means to an end. The clubs whomunderstood it isn't are currently the most succeasful in the country. That would have me thinking.
 
Kelleher 18m -done
Elliot 40m
Diaz 67m
Nunez
Jota 45m

Are the going rates I'd expect. Ballpark.

Don't think we'll sell all of them, but if we did anything less than 200m+ would be disappointing.

Solanke sold for triple what we sold him for five years later. So there's good deals to be had.
I'd say the Diaz figure is in around correct.
Elliot i think if it was last season, 40m was reachable. This season probably 30-40m. I've seen some crab him, but he's a very good player and very effective. Just look at his g/a returns per minutes. His physique has just never quite let him be a out and out LFC player. He's also only 22 and English.
Nunez to me feels like a loan waiting to happen. Unless Saudi get desperate i can't see a European side paying what LFC will want. I wouldn't on his recent form.
Jota 45m is never happening, sorry. Last season he's been out of sorts. Usually after injuries he bounces back like nothings happened. This time he didn't. He's 28 and injury-prone. More like 25-30m.

I'll add a few LFC will happily sell.

Tsimika- 15-20m.
Chiesa- 5/10m
Doak-15-20m

All in all i think LFC could make over 120m in sales this summer. It sounds like big turnover, but when you look at the minutes these guys had, is it really?
 
It might be the case that both culture and more lenient refereeing are incentives for EPL clubs to sign especially physical footballers but those aren't some kind of lab grown super soldiers but slightly more athletic than the average across the top leagues. That is simply down to sports science and the law of diminishing returns.

And even more importantly, physicality doesn't even help you that much. If you rush at an opponent who has the ball, you give away the space you vacate while doing so and if he has easy passing options, that is quickly exploited and all your physicality earns you nothing. That is the reason why across all top leagues, the players tend to be less physical the higher you move up the table. They still are athletic, sure, but rather in a Bernardo Silva fashion where they can cover lots of ground and change directions quickly to hold up the pressure on the defense and minimize the ball recovery time.

So the reason why physical dribblers work better for United and the likes is that you allow the opponent to isolate your players. And then, the lenient refereeing means that you need pace and strength to hold off opponengs who are allowed to wrestle you. But if you provide the player on the ball options - which is the key principle of positional play used by Guardiola and Slot - then charging at him is tactical suicide.

This is the reason why top level football sometimes seems so slow. If you are playing against good opponents, you can't give away space because they will punish you for that. And it is the reason why Wirtz shined so much under Alonso and was able to constantly embarass some of Bundesliga's most physical defenders such as Dayot Upamecano or Victor Orban who would belong to the most athletic defenders in England as well.

Among English fans, physicality often seems like a means to an end. The clubs whomunderstood it isn't are currently the most succeasful in the country. That would have me thinking.

Victor Orban made me laugh. :lol:
 

Going to be rounded down to the least possible amount in pounds by the English press :lol:

That's a hell of a fee but a hell of a talent. Exciting to see in the Premier League but still sickening seeing it at Anfield...
 
So £126m in the end then. Premier League record fee.
 
I can't believe they got him for only 52 million Kuwaiti Dinar. What a bargain.
 
More miracles from the men at Anfield. They’ve been operating on a shoestring for years now, relying on free transfers and loan deals and now they’ve gone and done it again.
 
Would love to know how the deal is being paid (how much is up front vs add ons).

Glad we're getting him over the line. Statement signing.

Big pressure on him to perform at that fee.
 
Thats a horrible fee. Basically impossible to justify, so in that sense - good news.

Made total sense at anything bar a mental fee. Weird move from the Scouse.
 
Big money that, I look forward to the fee gradually reducing in folklore.
 
They were always going to pay it. Crazy money but guess people won't care if he fits their system and they keep winning. Big pressure on him.
 
Huge price tag huge pressure. Hope he buckles.
 
Wow, big money, he’s going into a well oiled attack and will be utilised carefully I imagine and will gradually replace Salah. Fair play to them, amazing what you can do when you’re effective in recruitment.