Footballers rated higher when active than after

Lynty

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Agree with a lot (especially Beckham)but to throw some new names in:

Riquelme and Marcos Senna

Legends at Villareal, seem to have been forgotten everywhere else. Both never really had an opportunity to shine for an elite club. Though Senna was a starter for Spain at 2008 euros.
 

JPRouve

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Agree with a lot (especially Beckham)but to throw some new names in:

Riquelme and Marcos Senna

Legends at Villareal, seem to have been forgotten everywhere else. Both never really had an opportunity to shine for an elite club. Though Senna was a starter for Spain at 2008 euros.
Riquelme had an opportunity to shine at Barcelona before joining Villarreal, granted that it was a short leash because he wasn't an ideal fit but it was still an opportunity.
 

Lynty

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JPRouve

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https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2015/01/28/louis-van-gaal-the-man-who-almost-ruined-juan-roman-riquelme/

Never a fair chance. He joined Barca during Louis Van Gaal's full pomp, having a political war with the board. He wasn't wanted and LVG made a point to play him out of position.
I know that but whether you like it or not, it was an opportunity and what happened later confirmed the issue, Riquelme was indeed bad without the ball and he needed a very defensive double pivot behind him. He was a great player for Villarreal but one that was highly reliant on the system due to pretty obvious deficiencies that he never improved on.
 

Stick

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Albertini at Milan. There’s a deep lying playmaker if ever there was one.
What about the lad that was in the midfield beside him. Think he was Zvonomir Boban. A powerhouse of a player who's standards never dropped at Milan. I also loved Dejan Savejevic who would have walked into most teams but was a supersub for Milan when I saw them. Actually Milan for about 10 years were amazing.
 

NoPace

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You clearly don't remember Raúl :D

He was part of great attacking trios at club level his entire career, pretty much. Capello had starting from the left wing, to join Suker and Mijatovic in a front 3 in attack while tracking back and helping the defence as a left winger in a 442

With Heynckes and Del Bosque he won the CL playing as a #10 behind two strikers, then he was part of the galacticos attack with Zidane, Figo and Morientes/Ronaldo. Towards the end of his career he was often used as a wide forward

Raúl could play anywhere across the attack
Incredible movement and a great finisher, I'm just saying I think Spain immediately becoming the first team ever to win 3 major tournaments in a row upon his retirement and Messi and Cristiano's record isn't going to be good for his legacy.

It's fair to say that he could have been plugged in on any team and been a success (he was vesatile as you say) but I just think a 1 in 2 forward with his record will be eventually considered behind Shevchenko and Henry and other tier 1 strikers and that's probably lower than he was thought of as in his prime.
 

Stacks

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Sorry I meant 'you' generally, as in if one were to only have started rating him post-retirement they've missed out. I didn't mean to imply you personally didn't rate him, but in that case what did you mean by the below quote? I was talking about United fans knowing he was great during his playing career:
I actually highlighted too much as I am at work and not fully focused. It has been corrected.
 

tjb

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AMEN

And another one

throw in Del Piero and we good.

Scholes is the opposite effect


actually the opposite with Scholes. This has been debated to high heaven

enrages me. I saw him as our most valuable midfielder along with Keane although some seasons Giggs was monstrous. Pure disrespect with Becks. In terms of the art of kicking a football, I haven't seen many better
I agree. I actually think Beckham was the most important player at that time with Keane. Giggs was a bit inconsistent and there were points where players in his position were seen as better than him in the premier league. Beckham was our chief creative outlet supplement by Yorke/Sheringham for years.
 

tjb

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Vidic.

Some myth has developed that Torres used to terrorise even though it was just one game where he mistimed a header and Torres nipped in ahead of him.

Comfortably the best centre-half in PL history but people always look at JT, Rio and now fecking van Dijk ahead of him.
I agree. When they were in a partnership, it was recognized that Vidic was the better of the pair and was the best centre half in the world and this was from 2007 to 2011, a full four year period. Prior to him it was Nesta.
 

Stacks

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Kluivert. I very rarely hear a peep about him nowadays
Incredible movement and a great finisher, I'm just saying I think Spain immediately becoming the first team ever to win 3 major tournaments in a row upon his retirement and Messi and Cristiano's record isn't going to be good for his legacy.

It's fair to say that he could have been plugged in on any team and been a success (he was vesatile as you say) but I just think a 1 in 2 forward with his record will be eventually considered behind Shevchenko and Henry and other tier 1 strikers and that's probably lower than he was thought of as in his prime.
Raul played during both their era's and was awarded

He also played in different roles compared to Sheva and Thierry. he played only 198 games as a CF. 291 as a support striker (Rooney role), ad 113 in midfield. It's not like for like. He is more versatile than Sheva
 

fps

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What about the lad that was in the midfield beside him. Think he was Zvonomir Boban. A powerhouse of a player who's standards never dropped at Milan. I also loved Dejan Savejevic who would have walked into most teams but was a supersub for Milan when I saw them. Actually Milan for about 10 years were amazing.
Love Boban, these guys are some of my earliest footballing icons, and I’ll always feel about them a way I’ll never feel again about footballers as a result.
 

tjb

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Ballack
Sagnol
Gilberto Silva
Ze Roberto
Frings
Di Natale
German players prior 1980- 2006 can all claim this. German teams and the Bundelsliga used to have a global reach closer to the level of the French and Portuguese leagues than Serie A, EPL or La Liga. The growth of Dortmund and the breakthrough of a host of exciting attacking players, in addition to the general globlization of the bundesliga and the game has meant that more people are interested in German players than they were before.
 

12OunceEpilogue

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I actually highlighted too much as I am at work and not fully focused. It has been corrected.
Fair enough. I know a few people have probably gone overboard in their praise since he finished but I didn't love any player more than him when he was playing for United, and I know many others felt the same. Also for as many oppos who didn't rate him during his career (their loss :devil:) there are others who post-retirement try to paint him as an unremarkable PL player who couldn't do it for England etc.

Like you say it's been done to death but I see him being revised down thee days if anything.
 

André Dominguez

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Kluivert. I very rarely hear a peep about him nowadays

Raul played during both their era's and was awarded

He also played in different roles compared to Sheva and Thierry. he played only 198 games as a CF. 291 as a support striker (Rooney role), ad 113 in midfield. It's not like for like. He is more versatile than Sheva
His games as Support Striker were terrific. He really spread havoc playing in the hole (sounds like an adult movie, though).
 

André Dominguez

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German players prior 1980- 2006 can all claim this. German teams and the Bundelsliga used to have a global reach closer to the level of the French and Portuguese leagues than Serie A, EPL or La Liga. The growth of Dortmund and the breakthrough of a host of exciting attacking players, in addition to the general globlization of the bundesliga and the game has meant that more people are interested in German players than they were before.
That German generation that almost won every title from 86 to 96 was pretty much amazing in talent. They could afford leaving amazing players on the bench or at home.
 

Stick

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Love Boban, these guys are some of my earliest footballing icons, and I’ll always feel about them a way I’ll never feel again about footballers as a result.
Ye they were such quality and went under the radar. Prosineki and Boksic were great too. Actually the former Yugoslavia would have had an absolutely amazing team if circumstances could have been different.
 

_00_deathscar

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Fantastic player. Was probably one of the first versions of a 100% all-round attacker, who could roam on the wings, behind the striker, etc. Nowadays the wingers do this role.

Serie A was the equivalent of EPL today in terms of money and quality players, and I would say further that if you look at the late 90's squads (after Bosman) they probably had the strongest top8 of all time.
If TV money was a thing back then like it was today, Serie A would thrive and would make a lot of leagues to starve for UEFA titles. They would probably be at the top. Also, calciocaos and calciopolli didn't help and scared a lot of investors and sponsors.
Not if Juve kept making finals though...
 

harms

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Romario was one of the best strikers to ever play the sport, it's a shame if anyone fail to recognize this . Shevchenko excelled on a system that suited him, pretty much like Diego Tristán from Deportivo who everyone would rate as one of the best strikers in the world at the time, but when Depor went bankrupt and he had to play elsewhere, he couldn't score even if his life depended on it.
Have you seen Shevchenko play for Dynamo Kyiv?
 

V.O.

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For a fella who won a Ballon d'Or as a 5'9" centre half, you don't hear all that much about Fabio Cannavaro. Doesn't seem to be spoken of with the same regard as the likes of Maldini and Nesta, at least.
 

André Dominguez

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For a fella who won a Ballon d'Or as a 5'9" centre half, you don't hear all that much about Fabio Cannavaro. Doesn't seem to be spoken of with the same regard as the likes of Maldini and Nesta, at least.
Fabio Cannavaro was blessed with amazing athletic and technical attributes. His jumping was impressive, his balance was so good that even Jan Koller couldn't bully him physically and he was very classy on the ball.
 

Righteous Steps

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Vidic.

Some myth has developed that Torres used to terrorise even though it was just one game where he mistimed a header and Torres nipped in ahead of him.

Comfortably the best centre-half in PL history but people always look at JT, Rio and now fecking van Dijk ahead of him.
Maybe because he isn’t comfortably the best centre half.

Rio was better on the ball, Terry was better on the ball and in the air too.
 
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RedTiger

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What about Neville Southall? He was rated as (arguably) the best goalkeeper on the planet for a time, but sadly wasn't able to perform on the European stage due to Heysel. These days he only seems to be talked about as a bit of a joke, e.g. in the "Fat Footballers XI" thread
Another couple of GKs you don't hear much are Thomas Ravelli and Michel preud'homme. Both classy and effective goalkeepers.
 

Gonçalo Motta

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Romário its a great shout. Pretty sure players like Hazard, Robben and Ribery are going to have a similar fate
 

Righteous Steps

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Vidic definitely better than Terry on the ball and a better defender than both.
Nah don’t think he was at all Terry was an underrated footballer who could clip 60 yard balls with his weaker foot, I don’t think Vidic ever showed the propensity to match this.

As for being a better defender, not too sure but I would say defending wise they were all on a pretty similar high level, lest we forget Terry was part of statistically the best defence the league has seen.

I would rank Ferdinand as the best and Terry and Vidic not too far behind on the same level but a little bit worst.
 

Offside

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Nah don’t think he was at all Terry was an underrated footballer who could clip 60 yard balls with his weaker foot, I don’t think Vidic ever showed the propensity to match this.

As for being a better defender, not too sure but I would say defending wise they were all on a pretty similar high level, lest we forget Terry was part of statistically the best defence the league has seen.

I would rank Ferdinand as the best and Terry and Vidic not too far behind on the same level but a little bit worst.
Fair enough.
 

fps

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Ye they were such quality and went under the radar. Prosineki and Boksic were great too. Actually the former Yugoslavia would have had an absolutely amazing team if circumstances could have been different.
Yes so many top players who seemed to have a similar style and way of expressing themselves in midfield and Boksic and Suker, fantastic!

Loved that Prosinecki enjoyed a cheeky fag too.
 

ROFLUTION

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First name that comes to mind is Rivaldo. He gets dumped on at every possible opportunity, which is absurd. He was a superpower during his playing days, but one incident of play-acting has sullied his entire body of work, apparently.

Another is Shevchenko. Shevchenko was a god tier, dead cert elite striker for the annuls of time... then he went to Chelsea, and the rest is history.

Romario also fits this category. The guy was a true phenomenon as a player; truly and utterly revered whilst active. For whatever reason, his legend is not carrying across generations, which is bizarre. It might be a case of Ronaldo overshadowing him, but the reality is, Romario was a monster well before Ronaldo even made a name for himself.

Will be back with more - history has 100's of these players.
Yeah Raul and Romario for me. Probably forgotten due to so many good attackers coming into the game afterwards, especially at their clubs
 

ROFLUTION

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One player who is very unfairly talked about recently is Zidane for me. Just because he didn't play or score like Ronaldo & Messi people talk about him as he was a non existent player. I could watch him because he played like there was classical music in the background whenever he had the ball at his feet and he made the tempo of the game completely his whenever the ball arrived during that generation. Before the tactical possession and the pressing there was the pure Italian defensive structure to deal with & I really enjoyed watching Zidane's flicks and tricks to fool a few players that were needed to create the space for the players around him.

Italian league underrated players - Del Piero, Shevchenko, Gatusso, Nesta, Dida, Cafu (in comparison to Carlos?) , batistuta maybe

Germany - Ballack, Schweinsteiger, possibly Robben needs to be involved higher than he is being talked about before being forgotten?

Spain- Raul, Makelele, David Villa, Puyol

England - Beckham, Cech, Van der Sar, Rio, Terry, Gerrard, Rooney by our own fans.
I dont know, Zidane got heaps of praise and sits in the top 5 or top 10 in a lot of lists
 

Bebestation

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I dont know, Zidane got heaps of praise and sits in the top 5 or top 10 in a lot of lists
That's fair - but people say that's he's overrated because he didn't score or assist or something like some of the newer generations did but he played football to me like you were watching highlights on live TV & that influenced the game for his team by creating tonnes of spaces, creativity and ability all around him.

But I do get you - maybe it was a but wrong for the thread.
 

Sandikan

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David Beckham
Yes. Anyone who is in any doubt needs to watch the treble highlights.
An utter animal that season.

Has a bit of the reverse of Scholes & Giggs going on, in that they're a bit hyped for their longevity, and he misses out as he left us at 28
 

(...)

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I feel like African players are rarely mentioned, especially because they lack international trophies.
It's especially true for Abedi Pele, who was the best African player in the early nineties with 3 African Ballon d'or, one european champion's cup and yet he's rarely mentioned nowadays. His sons(Jordan and André Ayew) are probably more famous than him now, crazy.
 

Forevergiggs1

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Do people think CR7 will still be talked about in the same breath as Pele, Maradona and Messi in 50 years time?

Dont know if it's for his unassuming character but Philip Lahm for me goes down as one of the best defenders ever. Same as Cafu. Maldini and Baresi are givens.
 

harms

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For a fella who won a Ballon d'Or as a 5'9" centre half, you don't hear all that much about Fabio Cannavaro. Doesn't seem to be spoken of with the same regard as the likes of Maldini and Nesta, at least.
That's probably because he was never rated as their equal, even when he was an active player. Although his World Cup performance was absolutely outstanding, arguably the greatest ever defensive performance in tournament's history. He's still rated as one of the all-time great stoppers though.
 

rcoobc

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