For The Culture….Young Kings Versuz: Bellingham or Musiala, who is better?

RooneyLegend

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Should be Gravenberch vs Bellingham or Musiala vs Hudson Odoi. Id take Hudson Odoi and Gravenberch but everyone can ball.
 

In Rainbows

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I should try watching Musiala more often in senior matches. I watched both for England's youth teams and Bellingham was more impressive to me in those matches.
 

NasirTimothy

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He’s struggled to break through for Celtic. There were reports that he was looking to leave. Then there were rumblings that he was going to play a lot more this season but he picked up a fairly bad injury in pre-season. Still plenty of time for him though.
Hopefully he can get some proper playing time in the first team.
 

NasirTimothy

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Probably not, no. He’s way too defensive & doesn’t play to the teams strengths. I actually think England made the final in spite of him, rather than due to him.
I see what you mean. He is overly cautious. But a semi-final and then a final must be at least partly due to him. He could be one of those that’s good but a tiny bit short at the business end.
 

Piratesoup

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But Musiala is already giving Sané, Coman and Gnabry a really good battle for the starting positions in the squad, which might be a bit harder than to get in the Dortmund squad.
I'd say he's comfortable aheady of Coman already.
 

gfive

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It's an interesting question which leads me to a different one: Would Bellingham start regularly for Bayern?

I'm thinking Musiala, though I've only seen him play the one time in the Barca game, wouldn't look out of place in Dortmund's starting lineup?
 

Piratesoup

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Would Bellingham start regularly for Bayern?
He probably would if he played the same position als Musiala, given Sané's sketchy form and Coman's perpetual injury (and also form) problems. He wouldn't as a CM because Kimmich and Goretzka are just about as good a midfield duo as you can find at the moment.
 

stefan92

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It's an interesting question which leads me to a different one: Would Bellingham start regularly for Bayern?

I'm thinking Musiala, though I've only seen him play the one time in the Barca game, wouldn't look out of place in Dortmund's starting lineup?
Bellingham could potentially replace Kimmich, Goretzka or Müller in Bayerns system. That would be a tougher task than replacing the often inconsistent and injured wingers Bayern have.

So I don't think Bellingham would start very often there, but I also think this woulf be no indication of a quality gap between him and Musiala.
 

gfive

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He probably would if he played the same position als Musiala, given Sané's sketchy form and Coman's perpetual injury (and also form) problems. He wouldn't as a CM because Kimmich and Goretzka are just about as good a midfield duo as you can find at the moment.
Bellingham could potentially replace Kimmich, Goretzka or Müller in Bayerns system. That would be a tougher task than replacing the often inconsistent and injured wingers Bayern have.

So I don't think Bellingham would start very often there, but I also think this woulf be no indication of a quality gap between him and Musiala.
I need to see a lot more of Musiala. Thanks for the responses
 

WeePat

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When we are talking about 18 year olds in the Bundesliga... Florian Wirtz *scnr* :devil:
Good shout. He's not playing for a CL club so he seems to be flying under the radar outside of Germany.
 

gabbythered

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It's an interesting question which leads me to a different one: Would Bellingham start regularly for Bayern?
Kodi nox
I'm thinking Musiala, though I've only seen him play the one time in the Barca game, wouldn't look out of place in Dortmund's starting lineup?
bellingham is one of the most promising players out there if he starts I can't be surprised
 
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gfive

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bellingham is one of the most promising players out there if he starts I can't be surprised
My thinking was based off the players Bayern currently have. That he could make regular appearances but not necessarily dislodge one of their starters
 

do.ob

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Its a strange one because he spent most his childhood in England and his mates are all here. Wonder why he opted for Germany when he mostly played for England youth?
Maybe he wanted to win stuff? Or maybe it's for personal reasons that we can't possibly know.
 

WeePat

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Its a strange one because he spent most his childhood in England and his mates are all here. Wonder why he opted for Germany when he mostly played for England youth?
He gave an interview to the Athletic touching on this question. It sounds like he loves both countries, but the easier or clearer pathway weighed it in Germany's favour?

I have a heart for Germany and a heart for England. Both hearts will continue to beat.

"In the end I listened to my feeling that it was the right decision to play for Germany. Still, it wasn't an easy decision for me in the end.

"I had a very good and honest conversation with Joachim Low," Musiala revealed. "We met personally in Munich.

"At this meeting, Mr. Low showed me a very clear path for me in the national team. Mr. Low and Mr. Bierhoff were very interested in me, wanted to understand my motivations and to get to know me as a person. I was impressed with how well informed they were.

"Mr. Low worked out and analysed my playing style as well as my strengths and weaknesses very well and clearly. He also sees me in my strongest position in attacking midfield in the future and appreciates my qualities there. So I would definitely say that Mr Low, Mr Bierhoff, but also Hansi Flick and my teammates at Bayern had a positive part in my decision."
 

hasanejaz88

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Maybe he wanted to win stuff? Or maybe it's for personal reasons that we can't possibly know.
Agent Muller, Neuer, Goretzka, Kimmich, Flick, Sule, Boateng, Gnabry, Sane.

I was personally surprised he opted for Germany given that he had mostly played for England at youth level. I can only believe that he sees himself staying long term at Bayern and therefore felt more comfortable playing on the same national team as his teammates.
 

Stacks

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He gave an interview to the Athletic touching on this question. It sounds like he loves both countries, but the easier or clearer pathway weighed it in Germany's favour?
pretty darn convincing. They wanted him more. Didn't think these national coaches went after players like this
 

stefan92

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Its a strange one because he spent most his childhood in England and his mates are all here. Wonder why he opted for Germany when he mostly played for England youth?
Some personal reasons, he also mentioned that Brexit played a role in the decision to leave the UK.
 

NasirTimothy

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Its a strange one because he spent most his childhood in England and his mates are all here. Wonder why he opted for Germany when he mostly played for England youth?
Tis indeed a strange one. I think his father is the Brit parent as well (by way of Nigeria) .
 

DWelbz19

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Its a strange one because he spent most his childhood in England and his mates are all here. Wonder why he opted for Germany when he mostly played for England youth?
“I’ve thought about this question a lot,” he says. “What is best for my future? Where do I have more chances to play? In the end, I just listened to the feeling that over a long period of time kept telling me that it was the right decision to play for Germany, the land I was born in. Still, it wasn’t an easy decision for me.”
 

HTG

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Stop. You need help. This is an addiction.
We can stop whenever we want. We just don’t want to.

Somebody said Wirtz? Hope we’re after him, too. Seems very promising.
 

Zehner

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We can stop whenever we want. We just don’t want to.

Somebody said Wirtz? Hope we’re after him, too. Seems very promising.
I'm sure you are. You're again tirelessly giving your best to ruin the league for everyone bar Bayern fans ;)
 

do.ob

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You can get the player out of Leverkusen, but you can't always get the Leverkusen out of the player. Wirtz kind of has that hanging over him still. ;)
 

stefan92

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You can get the player out of Leverkusen, but you can't always get the Leverkusen out of the player. Wirtz kind of has that hanging over him still. ;)
It's not that long ago that he moved there, as he is a Cologne youth product. If someone makes a swift move there is still hope that he is not infected by the Vizekusen curse.
 

WeePat

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It's not that long ago that he moved there, as he is a Cologne youth product. If someone makes a swift move there is still hope that he is not infected by the Vizekusen curse.
Is this the German version of Spursy? Christ we took a big risk signing Havertz.
 

do.ob

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It's not that long ago that he moved there, as he is a Cologne youth product. If someone makes a swift move there is still hope that he is not infected by the Vizekusen curse.
It's his formative years though. Brandt still hasn't recovered from it and perhaps never will. Henrichs and Castro seem to be suffering from long-kusen as well.
 

Zehner

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Is this the German version of Spursy? Christ we took a big risk signing Havertz.
Every German club is like Spurs except Bayern. We're all competing for the second place over here ;)
 

stefan92

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Is this the German version of Spursy? Christ we took a big risk signing Havertz.
You did.

But you did become victim of that curse before - remember that game against Barca in the CL with Michael Ballack involved and that you should never have lost? He spend some years at Leverkusen, and see what happened...
 

Zehner

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It's his formative years though. Brandt still hasn't recovered from it and perhaps never will. Henrichs and Castro seem to be suffering from long-kusen as well.
Kroos, Carvajal, Vidal and Havertz have been doing fine, though. Maybe you shouldn't join Dortmund if you want to win stuff :angel:
 

stefan92

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Kroos, Carvajal, Vidal and Havertz have been doing fine, though. Maybe you shouldn't join Dortmund if you want to win stuff :angel:
Sure, the cup winner is a club you should not join if you want to win stuff? WTF? :lol:
 

Zehner

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Sure, the cup winner is a club you should not join if you want to win stuff? WTF? :lol:
Apologies. You can go there if you want to have a shot at the DFB Pokal once in a while, sure.

Edit: Just crossed my mind: If we're the German Tottenham, this makes Dortmund the German Arsenal, right? :)
 
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do.ob

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All jokes aside it's a legitimate problem at Leverkusen and their fans call it "Komfortzone", players don't have pressure to succeed, they don't have pressure from the stands they have no/less pressure from the media and they do not really face pressure of being dropped and that makes it harder for them to develop their mentality.
Bayern are the benchmark in this regard, because everything is turned up to maximum volume and they can just about drop anyone who is still susceptible to such problems, Leverkusen more or less can't and the dial is low. E.g. if Musiala's success ever gets to his head Bayern will just drop him, like they even did with Sane. However if Wirtz develops some attitude or lazyness he will keep on playing.
 

hasanejaz88

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Kroos, Carvajal, Vidal and Havertz have been doing fine, though. Maybe you shouldn't join Dortmund if you want to win stuff :angel:
Well you're long of making his point. None of those players stayed at Leverkusen long. That's the only, if you stay long enough you get infected and never recover. Tah is now so infected no team wants him :lol:
 

Zehner

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All jokes aside it's a legitimate problem at Leverkusen and their fans call it "Komfortzone", players don't have pressure to succeed, they don't have pressure from the stands they have no/less pressure from the media and they do not really face pressure of being dropped and that makes it harder for them to develop their mentality.
Bayern are the benchmark in this regard, because everything is turned up to maximum volume and they can just about drop anyone who is still susceptible to such problems, Leverkusen more or less can't and the dial is low. E.g. if Musiala's success ever gets to his head Bayern will just drop him, like they even did with Sane. However if Wirtz develops some attitude or lazyness he will keep on playing.
That's a very controversial topic among Leverkusen fans. The comfort zone is usually brought up by fans who think that all we need to win a title is a bit more ambition to win titles.

In the end what you describe simply comes down to squad quality again. The better the competition for your spot the higher the pressure.

I think we would definitely do a bit betterin that regard with somebody like Rangnick running us but the comfort zone issue has been overstated way too much. When people have to clue what's happening, they will always blame mentality. The Leverkusen fans who still moan ablut it are oftenthose who are delusional enough to believe we're still on eye level with Dortmund.

Also, let's not forget who coined that phrase. A coach who moans about the mentality at a club days before a cup final and then allegedly shags the wife of one of his players at his next destination surely should be listened to with some restraints.