Foreign secretary advice to LGBT fans.... Be respectful

Foxbatt

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Yeah, Vietnam, famously brushed under the carpet. What actually went on there? We may never know.

I think the US bombing campaign in Asia in WW2 was equally horrific btw. Why don't you make a thread about hypocrisy and history in context, because intentionally or not all you look like you want to achieve here is massive support for oppression of the LGBT community.

If you were to compare the structural institutional racism in the states, you might have a point.
What are you on about? It's the start of many illegal invasions, bombings of other countries etc. Yet no boycott call by anyone. Does it only have to be discrimination against the LGBT community that has to be held accountable? I say Only. The discrimination in Canada against the first nations too and Canada is hosting some games too.
 

Roane

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He asked a simple question for clarity, if you don't wish to engage with a discussion honestly perhaps a blog would suit you better.

It wasn't a discussion at all. The discussion was between me and a couple of other posters. He came in making demands. As did a few others who I have ignored completely.

I'm open to reasonable discussion with anyone. I have views many disagree with, if I feel it's a respectful genuine discussion I will continue. But I'm not here to comply to demands and shouldn't be expected to be
 

moses

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I have no idea either, yet.
What are you on about? It's the start of many illegal invasions, bombings of other countries etc. Yet no boycott call by anyone. Does it only have to be discrimination against the LGBT community that has to be held accountable? I say Only. The discrimination in Canada against the first nations too and Canada is hosting some games too.
Right, so Vietnam, which was famously heavily protested in the US and all over the word at the time?
If you were there would you have been calling a halt on the protest because of historical wars in Asia?

On the bolded bit. that's utter hypoicrisy, you are the one making comparisons with other atrocious behaviour instead of just dealing with the oppression at hand. On purpose or not you are on the side of the oppressor in this conversation, if not in reality. This is a thread about LGBT issues so that might explain people's insistence on focusing there.

In case you haven't noticed there is actually no boycott by anyone of Qatar, so you are in reality raging against a hypothetical or some idiots online.

Who is this imaginary person who was for Vietnam but is now upset in solidarity with the LGBT community?

I literally have a picture of Ho Chi Minh and the actual hammer and sickle from a Canadian branch of the communist party in my kitchen. Vietnam was only part of a systematic attack on the poor for geopolitical control under the guise of the war on communism. It doesn't stop me caring about the actual oppresion happening now.

Do you think sexual freedom should be a human right?
 
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moses

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I have no idea either, yet.
It wasn't a discussion at all. The discussion was between me and a couple of other posters. He came in making demands. As did a few others who I have ignored completely.

I'm open to reasonable discussion with anyone. I have views many disagree with, if I feel it's a respectful genuine discussion I will continue. But I'm not here to comply to demands and shouldn't be expected to be
This is a discussion and direct questions are part of that.

Reasonable discussion and being obviously evasive don't fit together I'm afraid.

Comply to demands indeed, suddenly we all about personal freedom.
 

Roane

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This is a discussion and direct questions are part of that.

Reasonable discussion and being obviously evasive don't fit together I'm afraid.

Comply to demands indeed, suddenly we all about personal freedom.
I think you misunderstood. You and me are now engaged in a discussion. You can ask a question as part of the discussion. Obviously I can choose to answer or not but I can't or wont be put out by your question.

A third, fourth or fifth person coming into "our" conversation and demanding an answer can, with respect get to feck.
 

Pintu

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:lol: The irony.

'When in Rome.'
Not really "When in Rome". There is no tradition of homophobic chants in there. But the irony is there indeed. FIFA forbidding Rainbow armbands and at the same pretending to care about these chants...
 

moses

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I have no idea either, yet.
I think you misunderstood. You and me are now engaged in a discussion. You can ask a question as part of the discussion. Obviously I can choose to answer or not but I can't or wont be put out by your question.

A third, fourth or fifth person coming into "our" conversation and demanding an answer can, with respect get to feck.
OK, do you think homosexuality is immoral?

Do you think a non elected government should discriminate against people based on sexual orientation?
 

Iker Quesadillas

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How many international tournaments have been held in the USA after they bombed the hell out and invaded Vietnam?
What are you on about? It's the start of many illegal invasions, bombings of other countries etc. Yet no boycott call by anyone.
Hypocrisy/whataboutery arguments have this issue of being stuck in a weird middle.

The 1994 World Cup was held in the U.S. Vietnam participated in the qualifiers. Iraq participated in the qualifiers. Iran participated in the qualifiers. So... was that wrong? Should they have boycotted it, and they are therefore worse than us?

Or is this some kind of exchange, where because they did not boycott USA 1994 (and will not boycott USA 2026), we have to not boycott Qatar? (which, btw, we haven't)

Well, I did not sign up for this exchange. I will complain about Qatar all I want, and other countries can complain about hosting in the USA and refuse to attend if they so desire.
 

stevoc

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Not really "When in Rome". There is no tradition of homophobic chants in there. But the irony is there indeed. FIFA forbidding Rainbow armbands and at the same pretending to care about these chants...
Oh right you are mate, no tradition of Homophobic chants. Just a tradition of rampant state approved Homophobia.
 

JuveGER

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Hypocrisy/whataboutery arguments have this issue of being stuck in a weird middle.

The 1994 World Cup was held in the U.S. Vietnam participated in the qualifiers. Iraq participated in the qualifiers. Iran participated in the qualifiers. So... was that wrong? Should they have boycotted it, and they are therefore worse than us?

Or is this some kind of exchange, where because they did not boycott USA 1994 (and will not boycott USA 2026), we have to not boycott Qatar?

Well, I did not sign up for this exchange! other countries are more than welcome to boycott USA 2026!
The whole argument is silly. The problems with Qatar are current. The 1994 US World Cup was almost 20 years after the Vietnam War. And what does it matter that 50 years ago "nobody" (I am sure that is wrong) demanded a boycott of the US. It's 2022, if people have become more vigilant than that is a good thing. There is no point discussing with this user, though. He thinks it's "hypocrisy" to criticize anything unless you can track your lineage back to the primordial soup without as much as a speeding ticket. Well, at least when you are from the evil west.
 
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Redlambs

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Are you really that secure in your faith if you can't answer a straightforward question about it?


But hey, at least I've learned something from this. Choosing Love over Hate is an evil Western concept. I did not know that!
 

Pintu

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Oh right you are mate, no tradition of Homophobic chants. Just a tradition of rampant state approved Homophobia.
That's true indeed. You seem to have a hard time separating regimes from people/fans in the Middle East. I don't think people over there (even though homophobia is more widespread than in the West) like to expose their homophobia in public the way many football fans do over here. And I don't believe the homophobic regime of Qatar -with its homophobic laws – approves of homophobic chants.

These regimes want homosexuality under the rug. They don't want it discussed to begin with...
 

Bepi

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Folks, let the strictly observant user to his own creed and move on? As often on here, different context / culture / affiliation is wilfully ignored, and putting questions to him on a personal level to get some complying answer (to what? The UN basic rights declaration is truly and fully respected in maybe 5% of the inhabited planet) answer will do nothing.
 
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What do you class as acceptance? I don't discriminate against an individual based on sexuality, I accept there are gay people in the world. I engage with, work with, socialise with gay people.
If you think that being gay is sinful or immoral then you don't accept them. You don't view their existence as valid.
 

Dumbstar

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If you think that being gay is sinful or immoral then you don't accept them. You don't view their existence as valid.
Plenty of my atheist friends probably secretly wish I wasn't a Muslim (jihad, terrorist, backwards brown fella). Do they not accept me fully? Do they not view my existence as valid?

I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with your hounding? Each person exists, however they are. They don't need another person to validate their existence.
 

stevoc

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That's true indeed. You seem to have a hard time separating regimes from people/fans in the Middle East. I don't think people over there (even though homophobia is more widespread than in the West) like to expose their homophobia in public the way many football fans do over here. And I don't believe the homophobic regime of Qatar -with its homophobic laws – approves of homophobic chants.

These regimes want homosexuality under the rug. They don't want it discussed to begin with...
You seem to want to spin that flippant 'When is Rome' remark into a full blown in depth discussion for some reason mate.

Ok, is homophobic chanting homophobic?
 

2cents

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Plenty of my atheist friends probably secretly wish I wasn't a Muslim (jihad, terrorist, backwards brown fella).
Sorry what? If that’s the case then I’d say they’re not really your friends.
 

KirkDuyt

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Plenty of my atheist friends probably secretly wish I wasn't a Muslim (jihad, terrorist, backwards brown fella). Do they not accept me fully? Do they not view my existence as valid?

I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with your hounding? Each person exists, however they are. They don't need another person to validate their existence.
Your friends sound like cnuts :nervous:
 

Pintu

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You seem to want to spin that flippant 'When is Rome' remark into a full blown in depth discussion for some reason mate. Have I offended you in some way?

Ok, is homophobic chanting homophobic?
Yes it is homophobic. And it is also much more common in European football than it is in the Middle Eastern stadiums…. Where it’s almost inexistant.



Not saying football fans over there are flawless. Just that it’s not reasonable to blame them for homophobic chants.

 

RacingClub

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Your friends sound like cnuts :nervous:
Yeah I wouldnt want to hang around with people that felt that my life (my sexual identity or my religion) didnt conform to accepted standards of morality personally, which was what the discussion was about.
 

moses

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I have no idea either, yet.
Plenty of my atheist friends probably secretly wish I wasn't a Muslim (jihad, terrorist, backwards brown fella). Do they not accept me fully? Do they not view my existence as valid?

I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with your hounding? Each person exists, however they are. They don't need another person to validate their existence.
You need better friends.
 

Gehrman

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Are you really that secure in your faith if you can't answer a straightforward question about it?


But hey, at least I've learned something from this. Choosing Love over Hate is an evil Western concept. I did not know that!
Wouldn't the poster say it's not his choice but gods choice. However if its that black and white its still a choice
 

RedDevilRoshi

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Plenty of my atheist friends probably secretly wish I wasn't a Muslim (jihad, terrorist, backwards brown fella). Do they not accept me fully? Do they not view my existence as valid?

I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with your hounding? Each person exists, however they are. They don't need another person to validate their existence.
WTF. If that’s deep down the hiding opinion your friends have of you then they are Grade A scumbags.

You need a better group of friends if that is their mindset.
 

stevoc

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Yes it is homophobic.
Ok good, is Qatar a country with laws against and a long tradition of discrimination towards gay people?

And it is also much more common in European football than it is in the Middle Eastern stadiums…. Where it’s almost inexistant.



Not saying football fans over there are flawless. Just that it’s not reasonable to blame them for homophobic chants.

Homophobia can take many forms mate. Some of the Ecuador fans were obviously just putting their own spin on it. But just because it takes a different form doesn't mean it wasn't because those people felt like they were in a comfortable environment to engage in their homophobia.
 

Boavista

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Each person exists, however they are. They don't need another person to validate their existence.
I think there's a difference between not needing people to validate your existence, and not wanting people to invalidate your existence.
 

Rightnr

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Foxbatt

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Right, so Vietnam, which was famously heavily protested in the US and all over the word at the time?
If you were there would you have been calling a halt on the protest because of historical wars in Asia?

On the bolded bit. that's utter hypoicrisy, you are the one making comparisons with other atrocious behaviour instead of just dealing with the oppression at hand. On purpose or not you are on the side of the oppressor in this conversation, if not in reality. This is a thread about LGBT issues so that might explain people's insistence on focusing there.

In case you haven't noticed there is actually no boycott by anyone of Qatar, so you are in reality raging against a hypothetical or some idiots online.

Who is this imaginary person who was for Vietnam but is now upset in solidarity with the LGBT community?

I literally have a picture of Ho Chi Minh and the actual hammer and sickle from a Canadian branch of the communist party in my kitchen. Vietnam was only part of a systematic attack on the poor for geopolitical control under the guise of the war on communism. It doesn't stop me caring about the actual oppresion happening now.

Do you think sexual freedom should be a human right?
It's the utter hypocrisy of people. Yes freedom of religion and freedom of sexual orientation is a human right.
So is the freedom not to be bombed and massacred. Especially an illegal foreign invasion and occupation. So much so they protested that they elected the same government and president twice.
Or is it alright to bomb and kill non white people.
Qatar should be boycotted not only in the WC but in everything when they are violating human rights. So should everyone else.
 

Red the Bear

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Right, so Vietnam, which was famously heavily protested in the US and all over the word at the time?
If you were there would you have been calling a halt on the protest because of historical wars in Asia?

On the bolded bit. that's utter hypoicrisy, you are the one making comparisons with other atrocious behaviour instead of just dealing with the oppression at hand. On purpose or not you are on the side of the oppressor in this conversation, if not in reality. This is a thread about LGBT issues so that might explain people's insistence on focusing there.

In case you haven't noticed there is actually no boycott by anyone of Qatar, so you are in reality raging against a hypothetical or some idiots online.

Who is this imaginary person who was for Vietnam but is now upset in solidarity with the LGBT community?

I literally have a picture of Ho Chi Minh and the actual hammer and sickle from a Canadian branch of the communist party in my kitchen. Vietnam was only part of a systematic attack on the poor for geopolitical control under the guise of the war on communism. It doesn't stop me caring about the actual oppresion happening now.

Do you think sexual freedom should be a human right?
Just no.

No war is moral and im not defending the Vietnam one but to make it out as this evil world dominating dr claw esq action is ridiculous.
 

Foxbatt

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Yes it is homophobic. And it is also much more common in European football than it is in the Middle Eastern stadiums…. Where it’s almost inexistant.



Not saying football fans over there are flawless. Just that it’s not reasonable to blame them for homophobic chants.

Wtf? Matches should be stopped for anything of that sort. Racist, homophobic, anti sematic, islamaphobia etc. But I have not heard of anything of that sort directly in the middle east.
 

moses

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I have no idea either, yet.
It's the utter hypocrisy of people. Yes freedom of religion and freedom of sexual orientation is a human right.
So is the freedom not to be bombed and massacred. Especially an illegal foreign invasion and occupation. So much so they protested that they elected the same government and president twice.
Or is it alright to bomb and kill non white people.
Qatar should be boycotted not only in the WC but in everything when they are violating human rights. So should everyone else.
Nobody here is saying its OK to bomb anybody. That person you are raging against doesn't exist in this conversation.

Like you're not wrong with any of your points of centention in that post but to keep bringing all that into the thread just comes down on the side of those doing the oppression in this conversation. Widening the conversation dilutes the protest, intentionally or not.

I have no no idea where you live but in my sphere the people angry with Qatar are the same people angry with racism here and imperial invasions around the world. You're shouting at people who agree with you.