Foreign secretary advice to LGBT fans.... Be respectful

moses

Can't We Just Be Nice?
Staff
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Messages
42,770
Location
I have no idea either, yet.
When a country is changed by an external force it is usually through military aggression e.g. The British Empire forced slavery to be ended in a lot of countries through the use of the Royal Navy, and it was not by giving their captain's armbands. Other than that, the change always has to be made and instigated internally.

Some random foreigners slapping on an armband isn't going to make a single bit of difference, so I don't get why people are getting so worked up about it the decision they have made.

In the end, I think the focus is in the wrong area. The decision to hold a world cup has no direct impact on lgbt, but it did directly contribute to the deaths and mistreatment of migrant workers. That is where the focus should really be as that is something football could have done something about.
What message did their capitulation give to the LGBT people in Britain? Or all the gay footballers we keep waiting to come out? This has been a huge setback to the LGBT communities everywhere.
 

SilentWitness

ShoelessWitness
Staff
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
30,138
Supports
Everton
Yes, I realize that. Just like I realise there’s all sorts of other bad stuff going on anywhere in the world at any time. I could decide one day that Luke Shaw’s opinion on Monsanto or American gun laws is really, really important. But what would be the point?

I just don’t see footballers as having much (any) importance in solving it. I don’t see the point in feeling “let down” or “betrayed” when they feck it up. Not quoting your words, but it’s generally what’s going round.

People putting so much store in what footballers think and do outside of football just seems a bit mental to me. Most of their “views” are just following someone else, taken from their PR, or just a sense of what they should say. No wonder that when it comes to the crunch they put football first. That’s not good, but as I said, why hang so much on them in the first place?
Because they are members of our society as much as they are footballers, because they have colleagues and fans who provide them with the means to be footballers who are part of the LGBTQ+ community, because they stated how much they cared about the issue and how much they support it. They have put themselves in a position to be criticised. The point is they are in a position which is seen worldwide. While we can do our bit in our small communities and circles to make a difference, it is obviously much bigger when someone with a huge platform to do so like a footballer conveys the message. They don't need to solve anything, that's not why people are pissed off. People are pissed off because they did not back up their statements of support. They crumbled the second that they'd be inconvenienced they crumbled. People who are gay or part of the LGBTQ+ community are more than inconvenienced every single fecking day of their lives just because they have the audacity to say "I am gay". It is not a case of hanging onto what footballers say or do. It's a case of human beings saying they support a cause but showing that their support is nothing more than a token for them to look good. That's what is sad. That they care more about themselves, about football, about them looking good when it suits them, instead of being people that actually fecking care.
 

moses

Can't We Just Be Nice?
Staff
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Messages
42,770
Location
I have no idea either, yet.
Yeah they are like Hollywood celebrities. Agree that not even risking a yellow is spineless. But presumably they would get a yellow each game if they wore the armband correct?
Worth finding out. Even one image of Van Dijk or Kane staring at a ref getting a yellow card on behalf of the worlds LGBT community would be huge. It would be amazing, huge reward for basically no risk.
 

Kaush949

Full Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
1,513
Location
Hargreaves' Hometown
I see 'Islamophobe' thrown around a lot.

I fundamentally wonder. Why is islamophobia wrong? Or is it a misnomer?

We should be against any discrimination towards arab-culture. That is racism.

But, islamophobia, christianophobia ( both religion and that self-centered c*nt), hinduphobia are all ok in my books as long as they take aim at the shitty and backwards aspects of those religions.

I love the arabic culture and I am also indifferent towards the hijab - because a person is free to wear as they choose. But, I also think both Islam and Christianity are bunch of snake oil. So, is every aethiest an islamophobia?
 
Joined
May 4, 2021
Messages
439
Location
Tangier
I think you've misunderstood the conversation. It happens if folk don't see the entirety and just come in at specific points.

I can't even remember how I joined this one. It then developed. It happens in conversation.

This particular case, as I understood it was to put my religion aside and give my opinion. My opinion is based on my religion and that is what I have and said
An opinion based on religion is still an opinion. Some Muslim people find the resource within their religion to accept gay people. It seems like you are using your religion as an excuse for the fact you do not.
 

Gehrman

Phallic connoisseur, unlike shamans
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
10,994
I see 'Islamophobe' thrown around a lot.

I fundamentally wonder. Why is islamophobia wrong? Or is it a misnomer?

We should be against any discrimination towards arab-culture. That is racism.

But, islamophobia, christianophobia ( both religion and that self-centered c*nt), hinduphobia are all ok in my books as long as they take aim at the shitty and backwards aspects of those religions.

I love the arabic culture and I am also indifferent towards the hijab - because a person is free to wear as they choose. But, I also think both Islam and Christianity are bunch of snake oil. So, is every aethiest an islamophobia?
Phobia implies something irriational. There is nothing irrational about having aversion to religion which has in many chapters of history held civilazation back and still does. It's a complete misnomer to add phobia into it. What if I happened to be a gay atheist in Iran. Would I be islamophobic about some religious nutjobs wanting to hang me?
 
Joined
May 4, 2021
Messages
439
Location
Tangier
I see 'Islamophobe' thrown around a lot.

I fundamentally wonder. Why is islamophobia wrong? Or is it a misnomer?

We should be against any discrimination towards arab-culture. That is racism.

But, islamophobia, christianophobia ( both religion and that self-centered c*nt), hinduphobia are all ok in my books as long as they take aim at the shitty and backwards aspects of those religions.

I love the arabic culture and I am also indifferent towards the hijab - because a person is free to wear as they choose. But, I also think both Islam and Christianity are bunch of snake oil. So, is every aethiest an islamophobia?
Islamophobia is assuming people are backwards and lesser because they are Muslim.

Being atheist shouldn't cause you to look down on people because they are religious.
 

Todd

Full Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
3,364
Location
Indiana, USA
I see 'Islamophobe' thrown around a lot.

I fundamentally wonder. Why is islamophobia wrong? Or is it a misnomer?

We should be against any discrimination towards arab-culture. That is racism.

But, islamophobia, christianophobia ( both religion and that self-centered c*nt), hinduphobia are all ok in my books as long as they take aim at the shitty and backwards aspects of those religions.

I love the arabic culture and I am also indifferent towards the hijab - because a person is free to wear as they choose. But, I also think both Islam and Christianity are bunch of snake oil. So, is every aethiest an islamophobia?
Islamophobia: dislike of or prejudice against Islam or Muslims.

I don't think that's a fair definition, because dislike of Islam, an ideology, should not be considered synonymous with a prejudice against Muslims, the people.

It's fair game to be critical of a thing that a person chooses. People choose to participate in religion, and as such it's fair game to be critical of their choice. I can be critical of their participation in an ideology that oppresses without disliking that person as a human being.

On the flip side, many of these folks are taking an ideology that they chose to participate in freely and using it as a justification to treat people poorly, which is wholly immoral in my opinion.

Religious dogma has no place in the modern world.
 

Strootman's Finger

New Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
1,661
Yeah they are like Hollywood celebrities. Agree that not even risking a yellow is spineless. But presumably they would get a yellow each game if they wore the armband correct?
They aren't at all like Hollywood celebrities at all. Hollywood voluntarily injects itself into every cultural issue. No one asks, but they feel the need to spread their uninformed opinions on everything. These are just athletes, that want to play in the biggest competition in their sport, the one they have dreamed about since they were kids. They didn't ask for it to be in Qatar, most probably don't agree with it, but they are not obligated to take any political stances when all they want to do is live out their dreams and play in a world cup.

Van Dijk's response was perfect, I might have politcal opinions, but I am here to play the game I love and I won't do anything to jeopardize it. Perfect, nothing else needs to be said.
 

Boavista

Full Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2021
Messages
528
While I agree that we shouldn't put celebrities' opinions on a pedestal, because they're just people and their opinions aren't inherently worth more than other people's opinions, let alone experts in whatever field, I think some people underestimate the positive impact visibility and representation can have on marginalised or discriminated groups. Especially in traditionally very "masculine" areas like football or hip hop. So many young LGBT people grow up without anyone championing their cause.

Wearing the armband might seem like a small empty gesture but, especially given the backlash, wearing it would show the world that these stars of the game stand against that discrimination. Right now I get the feeling this debate around the world cup is being portrayed as the liberal western media trying to impose their view on the middle east. If prominent football players take a stand that could show it's not just some fringe political point scoring, but that it's ok to support LGBT rights even if you're not LGBT.

Even if it doesn't change anything in tangible terms, it would give some hope and support to young LGBT people everywhere. And who knows, maybe over the long term it could even change a few people's minds on the issue. The majority won't change their minds, but it could make a small difference for some. I'm still hoping some countries do it anyway. Reports from Germany saying their FA is taking FIFA to court over the armband issue, so let's see what comes of it.
 

Gehrman

Phallic connoisseur, unlike shamans
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
10,994
Islamophobia: dislike of or prejudice against Islam or Muslims.

I don't think that's a fair definition, because dislike of Islam, an ideology, should not be considered synonymous with a prejudice against Muslims, the people.

It's fair game to be critical of a thing that a person chooses. People choose to participate in religion, and as such it's fair game to be critical of their choice. I can be critical of their participation in an ideology that oppresses without disliking that person as a human being.

On the flip side, many of these folks are taking an ideology that they chose to participate in freely and using it as a justification to treat people poorly, which is wholly immoral in my opinion.

Religious dogma has no place in the modern world.
Well ideally. You just have states with godless constitution and freedom of religion and freedom from religion. And non of this crap of automatically being born into a religion because your parents were religious.
 

Rhyme Animal

Thinks Di Zerbi is better than Pep.
Joined
Sep 3, 2015
Messages
11,193
Location
Nonchalantly scoring the winner...
What annoys me most about this is that universal human rights are suddenly being re labelled as western values.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights was drawn up by the UN and all member countries took part. The representatives that encoded it were from different legal and cultural bckgrounds and included all the world's major religions. It is not some back of a fag packet document drawn up in London, Rome or Sydney, it is universal, it is the world's values.
Correct. Well said.

Yep, but sadly it does happen though. Last year there were protests about the rape culture in US colleges and some utter scumbag right wing racist fecks did a bit of what about rape culture in x, y or z counties, and the rightfully got shut down for being obvious feckers with no empathy for the victims being supported. It's vile and same vile whataboutery it's all over these threads.
Well hopefully the same thing happens again because some of the posts on this are as repulsive and disgusting as they are cowardly. And I say that as a CIS male who has no real tangible connection to the issue other than basic human decency.
 

Raoul

Admin
Staff
Joined
Aug 14, 1999
Messages
129,965
Location
Hollywood CA
Islamophobia: dislike of or prejudice against Islam or Muslims.

I don't think that's a fair definition, because dislike of Islam, an ideology, should not be considered synonymous with a prejudice against Muslims, the people.

It's fair game to be critical of a thing that a person chooses. People choose to participate in religion, and as such it's fair game to be critical of their choice. I can be critical of their participation in an ideology that oppresses without disliking that person as a human being.

On the flip side, many of these folks are taking an ideology that they chose to participate in freely and using it as a justification to treat people poorly, which is wholly immoral in my opinion.

Religious dogma has no place in the modern world.
Also worth noting we have a decade long thread in the CE criticizing the absurdity of religion in general.
 

Chesterlestreet

Man of the crowd
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Messages
19,505
Van Dijk's response was perfect, I might have politcal opinions, but I am here to play the game I love and I won't do anything to jeopardize it. Perfect, nothing else needs to be said.
Again, what we're talking about here is not a "political opinion". This is about basic human rights, not about political views. What he says (he hopefully doesn't mean to say it, but that is the message he sends out) is that a yellow card is more important to him than taking a stand against so-called "values" that include denying human beings basic human rights.

The logic some people embrace in these threads is absolutely shocking. If Qatar's "values" included some variation on the segregation/apartheid theme, would people still say that we need to "respect" them and that it's only fair that footballers want to play football and not get involved with "politics"?
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
15,567
Location
Germany
Supports
Borussia Dortmund
Flick seems to have tried to put things into a better light at today's presser.

He said they talked things through and were prepared to take the yellow cards, to rotate captains each game, to compensate. But according to him the problem was that FIFA didn't actually state the precise consequences of wearing the armband (I assume he was alluding to red cards or cancelled games or whatever) and that FIFA waiting until the last second left them too little time to react. So the associations decided not to push players into it, but to protect them from that pressure. He called that decision understandable, but unfortunate.

The topic heated up further today, after REWE, among other things Germany's second largest super market chain, stepped back from their DFB sponsorship and reports that DFB is looking to sue FIFA - though I find it hard to imagine a lawsuit making a difference in this.
 

utdalltheway

Sexy Beast
Joined
Aug 20, 2001
Messages
20,438
Location
SoCal, USA
Again, what we're talking about here is not a "political opinion". This is about basic human rights, not about political views. What he says (he hopefully doesn't mean to say it, but that is the message he sends out) is that a yellow card is more important to him than taking a stand against so-called "values" that include denying human beings basic human rights.

The logic some people embrace in these threads is absolutely shocking. If Qatar's "values" included some variation on the segregation/apartheid theme, would people still say that we need to "respect" them and that it's only fair that footballers want to play football and not get involved with "politics"?
I have to agree with this.

There are not many countries out there that are squeaky clean but that's whataboutism, this particular moment it's about Qatar and their record human rights.
And in 4 years time it'll be the turn to shine the light on the US. But not today.
 

Strootman's Finger

New Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
1,661
Again, what we're talking about here is not a "political opinion". This is about basic human rights, not about political views. What he says (he hopefully doesn't mean to say it, but that is the message he sends out) is that a yellow card is more important to him than taking a stand against so-called "values" that include denying human beings basic human rights.

The logic some people embrace in these threads is absolutely shocking. If Qatar's "values" included some variation on the segregation/apartheid theme, would people still say that we need to "respect" them and that it's only fair that footballers want to play football and not get involved with "politics"?
He's a footballer, do you honestly expect him to solve all the world's problems?
 

Maroon Lucifer

Full Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Messages
4,852
Location
Faroe Islands
If you claim to support something but succumb as soon as it might have repercussions for yourself, are you really supporting it in the first place?

This legend wore this in Saudi Arabia, Qatar and UAE.

 

RacingClub

Full Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2021
Messages
2,040
Supports
Racing Club
If you claim to support something but succumb as soon as it might have repercussions for yourself, are you really supporting it in the first place?
You will have to excuse my ignorance but who the hell is that? :lol:

I'm assuming it's a Formula 1 driver? How did they punish him? Points deductions? Grid placement etc?

Fair play.
 

RacingClub

Full Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2021
Messages
2,040
Supports
Racing Club
I don't remember if there were any consequences for him, to be honest!
Sorry my mates etc are into it and I've heard of punishments being given out for careless driving etc (I think :lol: ) but since the other poster mentioned doing the right thing regardless of the repercussions I assumed he got some sort of sporting sanctions.
 

Roane

Full Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
2,330
Ok but if you can’t have an opinion because of your religion, why would you even open this thread? Presumably you had to have posted at some point to be drawn into / engaged in a conversation? I’m not trying to be an ass, I’m actually genuinely interested why you’d bother entering a thread about a topic you simply cannot change your view on or pass a personal opinion on because it is driven by a religion?
There are many reasons for opening a thread.

Boredom, curiousity, read what's being said about an issue etc
 

Roane

Full Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
2,330
That's fine and I'm glad you admit that not all Muslims agree with you.

I find it interesting to finally hear that you choose to believe in something that oppresses approximately 10% of the world's population for what they are rather than choices they have made.

I also think it is really important for everyone here and elsewhere to understand that not all Muslims believe this and Islam is not an inherently homophobic religion. Like Christianity and other major religions, some sadly choose to believe that homosexuality is a sin but many others do not and instead believe that inclusivity, justice and love for all humanity are far far more important.
Are you preaching or engaging in discussion/debate? Because you don't seem to responding to point I've made.

So all Muslims agree with me? Probably not on many issues. Does that make them right Islamically? No. Am I right? Check the test and the explanation. Qur'an, Sunnah, action of the Sahabah. Simple. Anyone disagree with this them I won't know what they are following. It isn't Islam and there is consensus on this where it matters.

Oppressing 10% of the population. Not even slightly. Islam is for Muslims first and foremost. There are rules eg don't drink alcohol. Some do. They are sinning Islamically. If they don't follow Islam they are free to do what they want. Drink what they want.

Love, humanity etc In Islam you can dislike a concept if Islam has made it a sin. But individual can never oppress or do injustice to an individual. I've said this on numerous occasions. Islam also has criteria. So chopping off the hand is in Islam. Yet what Saudi do is against Islam. Why because of criteria. So if a person is stealing because of hunger they don't get punished, the local governor/MP/councillor would be accountable in the first instance. If they didn't have the funds it goes up the ladder. Put simply the PM in UK would be punishable for food banks and poverty if it lead to crime. Not the guy who stole.

Sex before marriage is a sin in Islam. Pakistan has no right to punish a 20 year old engaged in sex before marriage. Why? Because they have created a society where dowry makes marriage difficult, even parents want kids to get an education and marry when 25, TV and advertising has semi naked women on billboards etc which evokes desire etc. To them punish a single man or woman in their 20's for engaging in sexual acts would be considered wrong.

This is why I don't do simple yes and no answers. It doesn't represent the whole picture. And no even with the complete picture I don't expect all to agree. I have no problem with it I don't see why likes of you do.

I've never beaten up a gay person, called any names, not befriended one based on their sexual orientation, not employed a person because they were gay, hetro or bisexual etc. I am convinced there is a creator, I am convinced there is an afterlife, I am convinced the Qur'an is a divine book, it tells me I will be accountable for my actions, no one else's. It provides a guide for how I should live my life to attain what it promises. I don't compromise that for nobody. If that makes me a bad person in the eyes of my peers etc I can live with that.
 

Roane

Full Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
2,330
Wanting to play the ‘innocent’, probing troll role on a topic that you have no intention or desire of actually furthering your understanding of.
If you believe that you can stop anytime you want.

As they say don't feed the troll, innit
 

Roane

Full Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
2,330
An opinion based on religion is still an opinion. Some Muslim people find the resource within their religion to accept gay people. It seems like you are using your religion as an excuse for the fact you do not.
What do you class as acceptance? I don't discriminate against an individual based on sexuality, I accept there are gay people in the world. I engage with, work with, socialise with gay people.
 

Rhyme Animal

Thinks Di Zerbi is better than Pep.
Joined
Sep 3, 2015
Messages
11,193
Location
Nonchalantly scoring the winner...
Are you preaching or engaging in discussion/debate? Because you don't seem to responding to point I've made.

So all Muslims agree with me? Probably not on many issues. Does that make them right Islamically? No. Am I right? Check the test and the explanation. Qur'an, Sunnah, action of the Sahabah. Simple. Anyone disagree with this them I won't know what they are following. It isn't Islam and there is consensus on this where it matters.

Oppressing 10% of the population. Not even slightly. Islam is for Muslims first and foremost. There are rules eg don't drink alcohol. Some do. They are sinning Islamically. If they don't follow Islam they are free to do what they want. Drink what they want.

Love, humanity etc In Islam you can dislike a concept if Islam has made it a sin. But individual can never oppress or do injustice to an individual. I've said this on numerous occasions. Islam also has criteria. So chopping off the hand is in Islam. Yet what Saudi do is against Islam. Why because of criteria. So if a person is stealing because of hunger they don't get punished, the local governor/MP/councillor would be accountable in the first instance. If they didn't have the funds it goes up the ladder. Put simply the PM in UK would be punishable for food banks and poverty if it lead to crime. Not the guy who stole.

Sex before marriage is a sin in Islam. Pakistan has no right to punish a 20 year old engaged in sex before marriage. Why? Because they have created a society where dowry makes marriage difficult, even parents want kids to get an education and marry when 25, TV and advertising has semi naked women on billboards etc which evokes desire etc. To them punish a single man or woman in their 20's for engaging in sexual acts would be considered wrong.

This is why I don't do simple yes and no answers. It doesn't represent the whole picture. And no even with the complete picture I don't expect all to agree. I have no problem with it I don't see why likes of you do.

I've never beaten up a gay person, called any names, not befriended one based on their sexual orientation, not employed a person because they were gay, hetro or bisexual etc. I am convinced there is a creator, I am convinced there is an afterlife, I am convinced the Qur'an is a divine book, it tells me I will be accountable for my actions, no one else's. It provides a guide for how I should live my life to attain what it promises. I don't compromise that for nobody. If that makes me a bad person in the eyes of my peers etc I can live with that.
Yeah, yeah cool.

So yes or no - do you think being gay is immoral?

Simple yes or no.
 

Roane

Full Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
2,330
The problem is if you can't bring yourself to say "homosexuality is morally ok", it creates a certain impression. Can you see what others might think about your reluctance to clear up where you stand?
Here is the thing and I'll be blunt about it. It doesn't bother me what others may think. I stopped trying to please people a long time ago.

I don't make excuses for being a Muslim. And I certainly wouldn't let FIFA "control" me if I was as passionate about something as likes of Kane and Vertonghen claim to be.

I sold my house at a loss when I found out interest in way of mortgage wasn't allowed. I was literally on my arse when I left the bank job I was in for same reasons. Walked away from a partnership in a business due to alcohol reasons. Never once saw it as a loss. I certainly am not going to let people, many of whom imo are virtue signalling sway me from something i passionately believe in.
 

Dve

Full Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2019
Messages
2,898
Are you preaching or engaging in discussion/debate? Because you don't seem to responding to point I've made.

So all Muslims agree with me? Probably not on many issues. Does that make them right Islamically? No. Am I right? Check the test and the explanation. Qur'an, Sunnah, action of the Sahabah. Simple. Anyone disagree with this them I won't know what they are following. It isn't Islam and there is consensus on this where it matters.

Oppressing 10% of the population. Not even slightly. Islam is for Muslims first and foremost. There are rules eg don't drink alcohol. Some do. They are sinning Islamically. If they don't follow Islam they are free to do what they want. Drink what they want.

Love, humanity etc In Islam you can dislike a concept if Islam has made it a sin. But individual can never oppress or do injustice to an individual. I've said this on numerous occasions. Islam also has criteria. So chopping off the hand is in Islam. Yet what Saudi do is against Islam. Why because of criteria. So if a person is stealing because of hunger they don't get punished, the local governor/MP/councillor would be accountable in the first instance. If they didn't have the funds it goes up the ladder. Put simply the PM in UK would be punishable for food banks and poverty if it lead to crime. Not the guy who stole.

Sex before marriage is a sin in Islam. Pakistan has no right to punish a 20 year old engaged in sex before marriage. Why? Because they have created a society where dowry makes marriage difficult, even parents want kids to get an education and marry when 25, TV and advertising has semi naked women on billboards etc which evokes desire etc. To them punish a single man or woman in their 20's for engaging in sexual acts would be considered wrong.

This is why I don't do simple yes and no answers. It doesn't represent the whole picture. And no even with the complete picture I don't expect all to agree. I have no problem with it I don't see why likes of you do.

I've never beaten up a gay person, called any names, not befriended one based on their sexual orientation, not employed a person because they were gay, hetro or bisexual etc. I am convinced there is a creator, I am convinced there is an afterlife, I am convinced the Qur'an is a divine book, it tells me I will be accountable for my actions, no one else's. It provides a guide for how I should live my life to attain what it promises. I don't compromise that for nobody. If that makes me a bad person in the eyes of my peers etc I can live with that.
You are of course free to believe what you want. But as long as there are no proofs that god or a any god given moral exists, I don't see how people can claim the right to have any opinion on how other people live their life. What two adults privacy and voluntarily do in their bedroom, is just none of my fecking buisness. Simple as.
 

Roane

Full Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
2,330
Yeah, yeah cool.

So yes or no - do you think being gay is immoral?

Simple yes or no.
Who are you again? You don't get to demand nothing.

Change that attitude and if I feel like it I may respond. Until then I'll stick to those folk who may disagree but are not making demands
 

calodo2003

Flaming Full Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
41,574
Location
Florida
Who are you again? You don't get to demand nothing.

Change that attitude and if I feel like it I may respond. Until then I'll stick to those folk who may disagree but are not making demands
Do you think being gay is immoral?
 

Rhyme Animal

Thinks Di Zerbi is better than Pep.
Joined
Sep 3, 2015
Messages
11,193
Location
Nonchalantly scoring the winner...
Who are you again? You don't get to demand nothing.

Change that attitude and if I feel like it I may respond. Until then I'll stick to those folk who may disagree but are not making demands
I didn’t demand anything from you (although, if as you say, I ‘don’t get to demand nothing’, it would suggest that you’re encouraging me to demand something from you…), I asked you a simple yes or no question that should be easy to answer.

Do you think that being gay is immoral?

Yes or no.
 

Roane

Full Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
2,330
You are of course free to believe what you want. But as long as there are no proofs that god or a any god given moral exists, I don't see how people can claim the right to have any opinion on how other people live their life. What two adults privacy and voluntarily do in their bedroom, is just none of my fecking buisness. Simple as.
I agree with you. I've stated many times what people do in their own space and time is nothing whatsoever to do with me. Or anybody else for that matter.

With regards to God I'm not here to convince anyone else or prove anything to anyone else. Im just saying I believe and the proof is sufficient for me. My journey is mine. Mine alone. I am convinced there is a creator. I am convinced the Qur'an is divine. That authority is what I live my life by. Me.