Formation change next season (4-3-3)

[Nou_Camp99]

This has to be the team v leeds please ole


De Gea

Bissaka Lindelof Mcguire Shaw

Matic
VDB Fernandes

Greenwood Sancho

Martial

Can't see Sancho starting first game. 30-35 min cameo almost nailed on for me.

 

[LuckyScout78]

433 is a more advanced formation than 442. 433 has the root from the Dutch, then Barcelona to City.
You get to have the right players with the tripel CM. Special the LCM and RCM beside the DCM player. Like Iniesta, Kevin De Bruyne and Barella. They are runners with the ball. They only pass the ball. The pass opponent players with the ball, from the midfield. Beside scoring ability.

You can City, Klopp and Bielsa are playing 433. More conintental formation. Compare to the British 442. In the defensive and without the ball. 4-3-3 turn out to become 4-5-1. A compact and tight midfield. So the midfield of 5 compare to 442 is more tighter and compact than 442. That is the biggest different. And definitely different playing style too. 442 is more direct.

 

[Adam-Utd]

433 is a more advanced formation than 442. 433 has the root from the Dutch, then Barcelona to City.
You get to have the right players with the tripel CM. Special the LCM and RCM beside the DCM player. Like Iniesta, Kevin De Bruyne and Barella. They are runners with the ball. They only pass the ball. The pass opponent players with the ball, from the midfield. Beside scoring ability.

You can City, Klopp and Bielsa are playing 433. More conintental formation. Compare to the British 442. In the defensive and without the ball. 4-3-3 turn out to become 4-5-1. A compact and tight midfield. So the midfield of 5 compare to 442 is more tighter and compact than 442. That is the biggest different. And definitely different playing style too. 442 is more direct.

So where does Olsson fit into this?

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

433 is a more advanced formation than 442

In the defensive and without the ball. 4-3-3 turn out to become 4-5-1. A compact and tight midfield. So the midfield of 5 compare to 442 is more tighter and compact than 442. That is the biggest different.

This depends on the manager's instructions / how the team is set up, and has virtually nothing to do with the choice of 4-3-3 vs 4-4-2 or any other numbers.

Simeone's 4-4-2 is the epitome of compactness and defending in a tight shape, probably the best example of it that we've seen all decade. Compare that with 2018/19 United shipping 50-odd league goals in a season.

Liverpool also don't line up in a 4-5-1 without the ball, they leave both their wide forwards high and narrow with the intention of getting them in behind early, or into the box for the full-backs to set them up (this is also why none of their 3 midfielders are those Iniesta/De Bruyne types: they're all in the team to win the ball and move it quickly without needing to do anything creative). And this is completely different from the way Klopp played when he used a 4-2-3-1 to win back-to-back titles with Dortmund, so there's nothing continental about his preference for one formation over the other either.

Talking about 4-4-2 being more direct, United played 4-3-3 under Van Gaal in early 2015 and it was as direct as we've been in years with Fellaini essentially playing as a target man in midfield. Then we switched to 4-2-3-1 the next season and became the exact opposite of direct by putting out the most tedious football I've seen in my life.

 

[sullydnl]

Seeing a few "well that shows we're not switching to 4-3-3" posts in the match day thread.

Have I missed something? I thought the idea was that we would switch to 4-3-3 with new signings. Not that the group of players Solskjaer didn't think could play 4-3-3 last season would magically be able to this season off the back of a short pre-season to which many of them arrived late.

Whether we end up switching formations or not, surely nobody thought we'd be playing 4-3-3 from the start anyway? How was that supposed to work with the players we have available?

 

[Adisa]

Saying it again. Looked like a 433 to me when we had the ball. Bruno, Mason and James the most advanced.
Fred held while Pogba and Scott occupied the half spaces.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Saying it again. Looked like a 433 to me when we had the ball. Bruno, Mason and James the most advanced.
Fred held while Pogba and Scott occupied the half spaces.

We were no different tactically to last season but, in fairness, why would we change for Leeds knowing the way the play and how good our system is against them? McT always gets way more space to push on versus these because of their midfield system. Even Fred got a great goal in the box!

I suspect we’ll see the 433 more against deeper sitting weaker teams (if we ever see it) but i suspect Ole will stick with what we have and count on Sancho+ Varane quality being worth a good +10 points

 

[SirAnderson]

People in the Bruno false 9 thread are saying we played a 4-3-3 at times. I can never focus on that watching a match, any of those armchair expert youtube videos available where a bloke explains it with nice lines and circles with the odd blurry copyrighted video or picture frame, that has a 1minute sofascore/onefootball promotion before he talks?

 

[SirAnderson]

People in the Bruno false 9 thread are saying we played a 4-3-3 at times. I can never focus on that watching a match, any of those armchair expert youtube videos available where a bloke explains it with nice lines and circles with the odd blurry copyrighted video or picture frame, that has a 1minute sofascore/onefootball promotion before he talks?

Found one. Fellow experts, is he spot on or is he talking garbage?

 

[The United]

Imo, playing with a single DM screening the back four can be tricky as the likes of Leeds and Man city shows at times. Not that Man City does not win shite load with that.

But, my point is that we are not that level yet and we don't have a CDM like they do who often gets away with fouling around to prevent from getting overwhelmed at the back whenever they get countered.

I think that we should play 4-2-2-2 for now as not everyone is fit. The 2 forwards can be Greenwood and Sancho who would just switch flanks or stay narrow or wide and let Bruno play like a kind of false 9 just like against Leeds. Pogba role here will suit that system as he does not have to worry much about defending and can still creative from closer to the goal. He can even fancy himself scoring goals.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

If pogba signs a contract much more of a chance we change to accomodate him. if he doesn't then he will play some games as part of a pivot and some on the left wing and come off the bench in others

 

[NoLogo]

Found one. Fellow experts, is he spot on or is he talking garbage?

I think he pretty much nails it. I actually quite like how our midfield played with Pogba starting on the left and essentially having a free role.

 

[Grande]

I think he pretty much nails it. I actually quite like how our midfield played with Pogba starting on the left and essentially having a free role.

A good analysis, and quite consistent with one the Noggie coach that provides tegular analysis on the Scandi supporters’ web page gave.

One thing it made me understand that Solskjær made a tactical choice against Leeds’ man marking that made Pogba and Bruno shine particularily well, but which also depended on the defensive work rate of Bruno, McTom, Fred and Shaw in particular, and on Maguire and Lindelöf’s abilities to handle Bamford one on one.

On the other hand, it made Pogba look worse than he actually was on Leed’s goal, where I assumed he completely dozed off, whereas it’s clear he just took a bit too much of a risk according to the game plan he had been given, which on the other hand gave us two goals in other situations.

 

[NoLogo]

A good analysis, and quite consistent with one the Noggie coach that provides tegular analysis on the Scandi supporters’ web page gave.

One thing it made me understand that Solskjær made a tactical choice against Leeds’ man marking that made Pogba and Bruno shine particularily well, but which also depended on the defensive work rate of Bruno, McTom, Fred and Shaw in particular, and on Maguire and Lindelöf’s abilities to handle Bamford one on one.

On the other hand, it made Pogba look worse than he actually was on Leed’s goal, where I assumed he completely dozed off, whereas it’s clear he just took a bit too much of a risk according to the game plan he had been given, which on the other hand gave us two goals in other situations.

I know that considering Ayling scored it's a bit hard to argue but not aggressively closing down a right FB in such a position isn't actually a mistake.First of, this is a position with a very low probability of a player actually scoring and I doubt there will be more than 2-3 goals score from such a position this entire season. Second if you rush in on a FB in such a position instead of standing him of a little he will simply try and get past you, while you are probably on the ground trying to come back from a missed tackling, your defense has to shift et voilà someone in the middle is free and nicks in an easy header. "Mistakes" are seldom as straight forward as we think they are and if Ayling skies the shot, like probably 99% of all shots from this position will be, no one is talking about a mistake from Pogba.

 

[Grande]

I know that considering Ayling scored it's a bit hard to argue but not aggressively closing down a right FB in such a position isn't actually a mistake.First of, this is a position with a very low probability of a player actually scoring and I doubt there will be more than 2-3 goals score from such a position this entire season. Second if you rush in on a FB in such a position instead of standing him of a little he will simply try and get past you, while you are probably on the ground trying to come back from a missed tackling, your defense has to shift et voilà someone in the middle is free and nicks in an easy header. "Mistakes" are seldom as straight forward as we think they are and if Ayling skies the shot, like probably 99% of all shots from this position will be, no one is talking about a mistake from Pogba.

In this case, Pogba didn’t ‘stand off a little’, he was nowhere near. For players at that level, if completely unpressed, quite a few of them can hit the upper corner with a decent percentage. But as I said, it wasn’t a big mistake, as I first had thought, but rather atactical risk by Solskjær that on the whole paid off and then some, and Pogba played a brilliant part in that.

 

[Glorio]

If so we don’t need a new CM in a 4-3-3 formation.

Not sure he said that, but Fred is definitely very quick - more so than most midfielders I'd say.

 

[NoLogo]

In this case, Pogba didn’t ‘stand off a little’, he was nowhere near. For players at that level, if completely unpressed, quite a few of them can hit the upper corner with a decent percentage. But as I said, it wasn’t a big mistake, as I first had thought, but rather atactical risk by Solskjær that on the whole paid off and then some, and Pogba played a brilliant part in that.

Alright, granted he was too far away but like you said if you give someone a free role, to roam about you accept the tactical risk of that player getting too late back into position to defend properly and considering that the player that potentially would have too much space is a right FB I think it was a risk worth taking, still that shot had an xG of 0.02 so not exactly a high percentage chance but it was scored so that's that.

 

[lenny_1248]

Solskjaer told the squad in pre-season that a switch to 4-3-3 was an option this year, but instead the Norwegian has used 4-2-3-1 in all United’s matches so far. [Paul Hirst]

--------------------De Gea---------------------
AWB-------Varane-----------Maguire----------Shaw
-------------------------McTominay-------------------------
--------Bruno---------------------------------Pogba--------
Sancho--------------Ronaldo-----------------Rashford

------------------------Henderson------------------------
Dalot---------Bailly------------Lindelof----------Telles
---------------------------Matic-------------------------------
--------Donny---------------------------------Fred--------
Greenwood---------Cavani-----------------Lingard
[------------------------Martial--------------Elanga]​

I get why Ole would not try it, it is not optimal. Scott is not a true DM (and he's simply not good enough either, with all due respect), Bruno is better playing higher up the pitch, but still. At least this way Ole can try to maximize offensive output.

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