Francesco Totti

KirkDuyt

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The man, the legend, the emperor etc.

Whenever he's mentioned most of my friends can hardly contain themselves with their adulation. "A true hero and club man", "a dying breed", "a player like no other", you get my point.

Yes, Totti was a very good player, I'm not going to dispute that, but I always get the feeling that he is slighty overrated because of that romantic one club one love etc thing. To me he's not in any best forward ever lists. Honestly not even best forwards of his generation lists. A great player, but not an all time great.

Sacrilege or wot?


PS: to turn the caf bias slightly in my favour, these friends often talk about " players like Totti and Gerrard" in their love of " club hero's"
 

DWelbz19

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You're right. Total bum.
 

maniak

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In the early 2000's he was superb. The later years, sure, a bit hyped because of the "whole career in Roma" thing. But only younger fans can say he was always hyped his whole career.
 

giorno

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He's the greatest italian player since at least Gigi Riva/Gianni Rivera, and the second best of the last 30 years after Baggio
 

Don Alfredo

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He's the greatest italian player since at least Gigi Riva/Gianni Rivera, and the second best of the last 30 years after Baggio
How about some defenders? Scirea, Baresi, Maldini
 

InLevyITrust

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The man, the legend, the emperor etc.

Whenever he's mentioned most of my friends can hardly contain themselves with their adulation. "A true hero and club man", "a dying breed", "a player like no other", you get my point.

Yes, Totti was a very good player, I'm not going to dispute that, but I always get the feeling that he is slighty overrated because of that romantic one club one love etc thing. To me he's not in any best forward ever lists. Honestly not even best forwards of his generation lists. A great player, but not an all time great.

Sacrilege or wot?


PS: to turn the caf bias slightly in my favour, these friends often talk about " players like Totti and Gerrard" in their love of " club hero's"
The guy was a joy to watch, just one of those players, he moved back into midfield in his later career. Not an it and out goal machine more but still a glorious player of his generation. Ha d worker, dedicated and loyal to his home club, give me him over the likes of Neymar any day of the week. Can I ask what Is your opinion of del Piero?
 

el3mel

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Legend who was unlucky that his club was never contender for big trophies.
 

Rozay

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I love him too, but I do kind of get where the OP is coming from. There wasn’t really a time, or a long enough time anyway, where he was hailed as the best per se. Even with the national team. The time where he was given the real big build up and got the 10 shirt for what was supposed to be ‘Totti’s tournament’, he was stupidly sent off in the first game for spitting and banned for the rest of the WC.

Capable of special, slightly better, or more preferable to Del Piero for me, but not sure hes an all time great or anything.
 

Sally Cinnamon

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Underrated if anything (from what I see anyway). The fact he played for one team bears no relevance to how I rate him as a player either.

He was magic.
 

Demyanenko_square_jaw

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I don't think he lived up to his potential with the national team, but at club level he's a legend. Great style of play, very consistent output for over a decade and probably never passed sideways in his life.
 

Ban

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The man, the legend, the emperor etc.

Whenever he's mentioned most of my friends can hardly contain themselves with their adulation. "A true hero and club man", "a dying breed", "a player like no other", you get my point.

Yes, Totti was a very good player, I'm not going to dispute that, but I always get the feeling that he is slighty overrated because of that romantic one club one love etc thing. To me he's not in any best forward ever lists. Honestly not even best forwards of his generation lists. A great player, but not an all time great.

Sacrilege or wot?


PS: to turn the caf bias slightly in my favour, these friends often talk about " players like Totti and Gerrard" in their love of " club hero's"
Sacrilege.
 

Beachryan

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Surely Buffon is better?! And I like Totti a lot.

Always had him on the same level as Giggs. Never the very best, but always in the top 10 for an outrageous period of time.
 

KirkDuyt

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Right you are then. I've shown these replies to some of the guys I had this discussion with. It's raining I told you so's :wenger:

I will spend the rest of my day standing in the corner ashamed now :nervous:
 

kendoka

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Legend who was unlucky that his club was never contender for big trophies.
You can not say ‘never’. In 2000/01 Capello’s Roma won Serie A with Montella and Batistuta upfront and Totti behind. In the following season, Roma were the runners up only by 1 point.
 

KirkDuyt

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Not entirely ready to let this go.

I will admit that Totti was a fantastic player, however, especially in the last few years, prizes seem to count for quite a bit when deciding the world's best player. The argument that anyone with a brain can see that Messi is a better player than Ronaldo get's scoffed at whilst pointing to all the trophies Ronaldo is raking in.

Totti's list of honours is woefully short for an all time great. "but he only played for Roma", fine, but who's fault is that? It's just hard for me to admit someone is an all time great without ever really playing in the absolute pinnacle of the sport. Basically, the Totti argument is similar to the Messi argument, anyone can see the guy is a fantastic player, you don't need prizes or stats to prove it.

Or do you?

Meh.
 

giorno

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Not entirely ready to let this go.

I will admit that Totti was a fantastic player, however, especially in the last few years, prizes seem to count for quite a bit when deciding the world's best player. The argument that anyone with a brain can see that Messi is a better player than Ronaldo get's scoffed at whilst pointing to all the trophies Ronaldo is raking in.

Totti's list of honours is woefully short for an all time great. "but he only played for Roma", fine, but who's fault is that? It's just hard for me to admit someone is an all time great without ever really playing in the absolute pinnacle of the sport. Basically, the Totti argument is similar to the Messi argument, anyone can see the guy is a fantastic player, you don't need prizes or stats to prove it.

Or do you?

Meh.
Totti won a world cup. Admittedly he played on one leg and wasn't very good in it, but still. He also was neck and neck with Zidane for best player at Euro 2000, and actually outplayed Zizou in the final...
 

Robbie Boy

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He was unreal. I remember watching a-lot of Roma the when they won Serie A in the 00/01 season and he was absolutely majestic. He was one of those true icons of the game.
 

Gio

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Not entirely ready to let this go.

I will admit that Totti was a fantastic player, however, especially in the last few years, prizes seem to count for quite a bit when deciding the world's best player. The argument that anyone with a brain can see that Messi is a better player than Ronaldo get's scoffed at whilst pointing to all the trophies Ronaldo is raking in.

Totti's list of honours is woefully short for an all time great. "but he only played for Roma", fine, but who's fault is that? It's just hard for me to admit someone is an all time great without ever really playing in the absolute pinnacle of the sport. Basically, the Totti argument is similar to the Messi argument, anyone can see the guy is a fantastic player, you don't need prizes or stats to prove it.

Or do you?

Meh.
It's reductive to use that as your main line of argument, otherwise decent players with huge trophy cabinets like Phil Neal, Manuel Sanchis, Gary Neville or Gerard Pique are elevated as the greatest of all time. I think that is only applicable where a top player in a great team has failed to make the difference on the biggest stage. You cannot apply that to a talisman who did so much to push a team beyond its natural standing. Same rationale could apply for Gerrard at Liverpool. The one time at club level that Totti had world-class players all around him would have been around 2000 when Batistuta joined and, along with the likes of Cafu, Montella, Samuel and Emerson, they had a properly competitive side. And they fired Roma to a Serie A title - their only one in the last 35 years.

At international level, Totti was in a great team which rightfully considered itself amongst the favourites for a couple of competitions and his record there is top class in winning a World Cup when he provided 4 assists, and at Euro 2000 where he was man of the match in the final. That compares well against plenty of other great players whose credentials are rarely questioned.
 

InLevyITrust

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Not entirely ready to let this go.

I will admit that Totti was a fantastic player, however, especially in the last few years, prizes seem to count for quite a bit when deciding the world's best player. The argument that anyone with a brain can see that Messi is a better player than Ronaldo get's scoffed at whilst pointing to all the trophies Ronaldo is raking in.

Totti's list of honours is woefully short for an all time great. "but he only played for Roma", fine, but who's fault is that? It's just hard for me to admit someone is an all time great without ever really playing in the absolute pinnacle of the sport. Basically, the Totti argument is similar to the Messi argument, anyone can see the guy is a fantastic player, you don't need prizes or stats to prove it.

Or do you?

Meh.
I don't buy you cant be an all time great without winning things. He chose to stay at Roma and shouldn't be ridiculed for it, in a sport that is having its passion and heart ripped out.
 

KirkDuyt

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The honours argument obviously only goes so far. I'm not saying Arbeloa is a greater player than Totti for winning more prizes, but there are plenty of players who were pivotal for prize winning squads. I'm talking about the likes of Xavi, Iniesta, Seedorf, Ronaldo, Messi etc. Surely they rank in an echelon above Totti's?

Chosing to stay at Roma is great, a true hero of Rome, up there with Caesar, but in my book never taking the plunge at one of the top dogs makes you a lesser player, not a greater one. I'm not at all ridiculing him for it by the way, football would be a much greater sport if all great players stayed at the club they came up as, but that's not the reality we live in.

I refuse to hail Stevie-me as some sort of all time hero, for never leaving pool, so I'm not changing my standards for Totti ;)
 

Keeps It tidy

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The honours argument obviously only goes so far. I'm not saying Arbeloa is a greater player than Totti for winning more prizes, but there are plenty of players who were pivotal for prize winning squads. I'm talking about the likes of Xavi, Iniesta, Seedorf, Ronaldo, Messi etc. Surely they rank in an echelon above Totti's?

Chosing to stay at Roma is great, a true hero of Rome, up there with Caesar, but in my book never taking the plunge at one of the top dogs makes you a lesser player, not a greater one. I'm not at all ridiculing him for it by the way, football would be a much greater sport if all great players stayed at the club they came up as, but that's not the reality we live in.

I refuse to hail Stevie-me as some sort of all time hero, for never leaving pool, so I'm not changing my standards for Totti ;)
He won a Scudetto, 2 Coppa Italias and Roma was consistently playing in Europe. So it is not like he was playing in obscurity.
 

KirkDuyt

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My point exactly, not in obscurity, but just below the top. Which is where I'd put Totti.

It's obvious I'm quite alone in my opinion though, so I'll end my defense with the immortal principal Skinner: